Quick Combat Questions

Penwize

WRT Torso 3x BBT is completely independent of arties.  You could do that as an 11 strength monk.  It's an instant kill.  The only help that kill path can get from arties, is slightly faster prep with knuckles.

I'm not saying monk doesn't scale crazy well with arties, because it does.  There's a lot of room for monk to grow with arties, but its baseline is 100% viable even if you're not statted for str.

Leviticus

Penwize said:

WRT Torso 3x BBT is completely independent of arties.  You could do that as an 11 strength monk.  It's an instant kill.  The only help that kill path can get from arties, is slightly faster prep with knuckles.

I'm not saying monk doesn't scale crazy well with arties, because it does.  There's a lot of room for monk to grow with arties, but its baseline is 100% viable even if you're not statted for str.

Correct, I agree that monk can kill someone with a wrt, torso 3 bbt set up within 30 seconds unartied if the victim had no clue what they were doing or how monks kill someone. 

Leviticus

Leviticus said:

Penwize said:

WRT Torso 3x BBT is completely independent of arties.  You could do that as an 11 strength monk.  It's an instant kill.  The only help that kill path can get from arties, is slightly faster prep with knuckles.

I'm not saying monk doesn't scale crazy well with arties, because it does.  There's a lot of room for monk to grow with arties, but its baseline is 100% viable even if you're not statted for str.

Correct, I agree that monk can kill someone with a wrt, torso 3 bbt set up within 30 seconds unartied if the victim had no clue what they were doing or how monks kill someone. 

How, I took the original question was this: In the current environment can monk without arties be good at PvP. I answered no in single combat and yes in group. Single combat is a no because anyone and everyone who fights already has a descent amount of defensive and offensive artefacts. I can't think of one good unartied monk, currently, in the game that is successful.

Torinn

My thing is that no, you can't expect unartied monk to go up against artied opponents <bold>who know what they are doing</bold> but the same is true about most classes.  It is unreasonable to compare combat capabilities of an unartied class against Dunn or Proficy.  What we need to do is compare unartied classes against other unartied classes

Leviticus

Torinn said:

My thing is that no, you can't expect unartied monk to go up against artied opponents <bold>who know what they are doing</bold> but the same is true about most classes.  It is unreasonable to compare combat capabilities of an unartied class against Dunn or Proficy.  What we need to do is compare unartied classes against other unartied classes

The problem is that achaea is/has been for a while, balanced around artefacts. If you are going to PvP you have to have artefacts to be successful barring a few select people but even those peopel can be outdamaged because they have no health artefacts.

Torinn

Well my thought is if you don't have arties then you shouldn't 1v1 the top tier dudes that have arties, right?  If all things are equal (same knowledge and experience) then arties will make the difference.  

Leviticus

Torinn said:

Well my thought is if you don't have arties then you shouldn't 1v1 the top tier dudes that have arties, right?  If all things are equal (same knowledge and experience) then arties will make the difference.  

I think Coding + Arties > anything

Dochitha

Artied vs artied, is always more fun than, unartied vs unartied. 

A world with everyone artied, is more fun than a workd with everyone unartied. 

Artefacts' opness pales in comparison to the fun it brings. Many classes get to do more with artefacts. Artefacts provide options, is what really attracts me, not necessarily the opness of them...

Lucianus

Leviticus said:

Torinn said:

Well my thought is if you don't have arties then you shouldn't 1v1 the top tier dudes that have arties, right?  If all things are equal (same knowledge and experience) then arties will make the difference.  

I think Coding + Arties > anything

More like.... 

Coding >= 2000wpm Gamer Reflexes > Arties > anything

Ankhareoutef

@Leviticus, do you use transitions?

Leviticus

Ankhareoutef said:

@Leviticus, do you use transitions?

Yes, Sir! Both Kai Transitions and at the end of the combo depending on the situation. 

Ankhareoutef

Is an ethereal lightning eagle cuff worth it?  Is it going to help my kill setups enough to warrant purchasing it?

Armali

Rageblade + Mayology?

Alyxeri

Calm down, Satan.

Dochitha

Armali said:

Rageblade + Mayology?c

Machine gun. 

Nylian

What am I doing wrong here?

https://justpaste.it/1cy8y

From the moment ret hit, all I tried to do was tumble out.  I'm sure I'm just missing some fundamental understanding of ret that prevented me from doing what I needed to do.

Sorry for crappy offbrand HTML paste, ada-appspot calling it a bad token or some garbage.

Armali

Looks like poor ret handling on your end. CURING AEONCOMMAND <x> is your friend. Also, afaik in retardation/aeon, amnesia clears upon execution of any command BEFORE delay. So if you get amnesia in ret, just trigger like, touch amnesia.

Kaden

What's your tumble alias trying to do exactly? Just tumble direction?

Other than that, you were asleep for a while, then disrupted for the rest of the log. I also can't tell if you were compensating for amnesia.

Nylian

open door <dir> / tumble <dir>, that's it.
It's using serverside slowcuring set, is that different than CURING AEONCOMMAND <x> ?

Atalkez

Well, if you're sending both of those, the only thing you will ever send is the tumble. You won't open the door. Retaration is single command.

CURING AEONCOMMAND basically inserts the command that you want, ahead of anything else, so that you don't try to focus for instance, which would override whatever command you actually put in. With this syntax, it won't progress until the command you input is sent properly.

Nylian

Ooooh okay I'll mess what that. I was okay with it not opening the door, though I've adjusted it to be the single command now.

Thanks all.

Jonathin

Get a magi to lay ret down and practice in it. It's worth every second.

Makarios

Nylian said:

What am I doing wrong here?

https://justpaste.it/1cy8y

From the moment ret hit, all I tried to do was tumble out.  I'm sure I'm just missing some fundamental understanding of ret that prevented me from doing what I needed to do.

Sorry for crappy offbrand HTML paste, ada-appspot calling it a bad token or some garbage.

You need to use metawake religiously in retardation. Personally I feel it is worth burning an action to put it up in a one v one scenario if you end up in the vibe without it (but if you do end up in that position, this is your biggest mistake). When fighting a solo magi there's really not a compelling reason to have this turned off.

Aegoth

Makarios said:

When fighting a solo magi there's really not a compelling reason to have this turned off.

Destabilise Lullaby!

Makarios

I don't think it was present in that log, but I'll grant you that would complicate things. Its a pretty big telegraph though, so you should probably just get ready for the retardation to be coming if you see that.

Nylian

I’m highly confident I had metawake up.  I have it up against all classes.  If it wasn’t, then I failed to vdefs combat before the duel and will take my licking!

what does destabilize lullaby do?

Krypton

Strips metawake and prevents redeffing it for a while.

Nylian

That was probably it then.

So answer would be to run on the lullaby destabilize until I can metawake again?

Makarios

Its a pretty long lockout. You should just highlight the lullaby line and the spin disc/pyramid lines. If the former happens then you see one of the latter two happen, its a good chance you're about to be in retardation.

Alyxeri

It's rough fighting vs diadem + staff + embed arti, since Magi can disrupt you in between embedding and it actually coming back up, to keep you off EQ.

As Mak said, if you have lullaby (which you did) then see disc being spun/embedded, you should just gtfo.