Quick Combat Questions

Penwize

I'm pretty sure wrench head makes scythe viable for nimble monks instead of quick witted, but it does take a bit more work to setup.

Leviticus

Antidas said:

Liatris said:

How far in pvp can monk go without artefacts?

Depends. Shikudo doesn't seem to artie dependent and is really strong if you can figure it out, but holy shit is it complicated. Definitely not recommended for beginners. Tekura is far more artie dependent since it is far more limited in kill paths, so you might have a harder time killing some people.

All in all I'd say, if you're fully confident in your abilities to understand a skillset and (most likely) code yourself some sort of system to help manage the offense, pick up Shikudo and wreck everything. If you're not confident, stick with Tekura for now until you are. Just know that you'll likely hit a health wall where you just can't kill people above that health due to your lack of damage.

Monk without knuckles (level 3, if you can) is unplayable. Would take you forever to prep the limbs needed to pull off any strategy especially in the current meta Achaea plays with (conditional based offenses (automated)). Unartied monk in group combat is fine because it brings a lot to the table with telepathy, pure damage and limb damage plus a lot of defensive measures with kaido . One verus One it will suffer greatly. There are many people here who will suggest a lot of things to counter this statement but that is just a lot of theory-crafting and being in the perfect situation. The best idea for unartied monk is to take the long approach. Combo, Shield, Combo, Shield, Combo, Run, Combo, Shield, etc. This isn't very viable with good combatants because they will just walk away at a certain point.

If you spent the money on level 3 knuckles. Monk becomes very viable because you can prep most people's limbs in two kicks and three punches. Which makes monk very scary and competitive with limb prepping and momentum based classes.

Scythe requires wrench head in order to stack goldenseal cures on most good fighters. Also nimble is very viable with the scythe path, just requires you to use more palmstrike and mind command apply resto to arms before you swk, break leg, break head.

But monk has a hella lot of tools in order to be good. Just not without knuckles.

The bottom line in combat is speed. Who has it and who doesn't. Monk without knuckles will lose most fights because it is slow to prep. 

Also, wrench torso becomes a must because most people have some significant health/sip artefacts that gives them the ability to tank two bbt's and a kai choke from a person who has every artefact that matters level 3. 

Even then you can get around this by using enfeeble, which usually seals the deal.

Also if you break someones torso, double break their legs, they automatically apply to torso before curing legs. Use wrench torso and bbt 3 times for that instant kill.

Leviticus

Playing monk without level 3 artefacts is like playing BM without a level 2 sword. You will never be fast enough to seal the deal. And then when you finally get to impaleslash, bladetwist, bladetwist, bladetwist. They have level 3 regeneration and level 3 mana sip ring. They avoid your instant kill.

Leviticus

Shikudo is viable but once again it is a limb damage class. So prep without a level 3 staff might take awhile but you have afflictions. Once you understand kata and stances you will be fine. It's not that hard to code once you fully understand what you need to do and the conditionals that are needed to execute.

Solnir

I disagree wholeheartedly. Knuckles is probably one of the last arties I would get as a monk.

Leviticus

Solnir said:

I disagree wholeheartedly. Knuckles is probably one of the last arties I would get as a monk.

I am extremely interested in why you say that, especially since Monk is a limb damage prep class.

Solnir

Benefit vs cost, really. You're paying 400/800/1600 credits for an increase on about half of your combo (weighing each kick as 50%, and both punches as the other 50%), and only on damage done. No speed or to-hit increase is given. So you're paying the same price for half the benefit of JUST damage as every other lvl3 weapon in the game.

Reyson

DW scythes work the same no?

Keorin

knuckles speed up your prep and up your average damage output, but they don't actually boost the speed of your attacks, so they don't actually move any additional finishers onto the table. Plus, they don't actually boost your prep speed much at all, on average. Your threshold is getting most people preppable in "two kicks, three punches." As a monk with no knuckles, I prep most targets in two kicks, four punches. Needed a punch less would be -nice-, sure, but that's not what make or breaks most fights.

Having the strength artifacts to actually seal backbreaker paths, and having the defensive artifacts to more reliably stay in room with people, both seem like -far- more important goals from artifact investment then marginally quicker prep.

Solnir

Reyson said:

DW scythes work the same no?

You're right! I forgot about those. So I'll amend my earlier statement to:  So you're paying the same price for half the benefit of JUST damage as *almost* every other lvl3 weapon in the game.

Antonius

Reyson said:

DW scythes work the same no?

Except DW just does a single scythe hit, so the bonus applies to all of your regular attack damage.

Farrah

I played Tek monk without knuckles and I am actually heavily artefacted. Never saw any reason to buy them. I find the limb counting easier without.

The most necessary artefacts (as any class) tend to be the ones that make you hit faster. Aldar talisman/diadem is the most important for monk. Though, as others have said, you can probably do without.

Armali

Don't listen to @Leviticus -- level 3 knuckles are absolutely unnecessary and a luxury. They're for if you want to autobash scrubs in a full str spec.

EDIT: Blademaster is also viable unbanded. It's issues, especially at the higher end, are wholly unrelated to its swing speed.

Leviticus

I just tested knuckles. Level 3 knuckles reduce prep time by one punch. It used to be a lot different...

Leviticus

I feel like all artefacts have became watered down due to trying to keep it newbie friendly...

Austere

I dont even bother with morphing knuckles most of the time.  I would definitely never suggest someone straight buy them.  Ten years ago when the damage was relevant, sure,  but with today's proliferation of momentum and hybrid classes, monk pre-damage just isn't justifiable imo. 

Aegoth

1600cr for a 1 punch redux?

Leviticus

Aegoth said:

1600cr for a 1 punch redux?

Yeah, it actually made me want to vomit. I want a refund.

Thalak

Leviticus said:

Aegoth said:

1600cr for a 1 punch redux?

Yeah, it actually made me want to vomit. I want a refund.

ARTIFACT KNUCKLES TRADEIN

tbh, with all the shit you've been spewing, and leading people on false pretenses, I think it'd be funnier if they charged you 1600 credits to get rid of the knuckles

Alyxeri

Sweet mother of hostility.

Frederich

Hey guys whats goin on in here--

Nevermind.

Exelethril

As per routine, let's spend the next 3 pages demonizing @Leviticus as a horrible person 

Alyxeri

Fuck that Leviticus guy. One time I was chasing him during exterms, then he turned around and Overhand/Hugalaz'd me in the face for like 60% of my health.

Caelan

Frederich said:

Hey guys whats goin on in here--

Nevermind.

Exelethril said:

As per routine, let's spend the next 3 pages demonizing @Leviticus as a horrible person 

Umm no, Frederich just posted.  Jesus, keep up with the shunned ones.

Solnir

Thalak was the only one being hostile, until someone mentioned the word 'hostility'. Now there's gunna be hostility errywurrr

Xaden

Fuck you, Solnir 

Solnir

UNBLOODLINE XADEN

Antidas

QUIT TARGOSSAS;AGREE RAAAAAAGE

Leviticus

Exelethril said:

As per routine, let's spend the next 3 pages demonizing @Leviticus as a horrible person 

Ha, I can take it. I am constantly learning and never claimed to be a good combatant! Unartied monk, to me, is still not viable. Please prove me wrong. Yes you could kill some scrubs but not anyone who knows how to fight. 

Level 3 knuckles saves you one balance though... so that is good.

Leviticus

Alyxeri said:

Fuck that Leviticus guy. One time I was chasing him during exterms, then he turned around and Overhand/Hugalaz'd me in the face for like 60% of my health.

Parry you damn head!