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  • TelinusTelinus
    I don't understand why orders feel they have a right to have shrines up in areas. The RP for aggressors could be as simple as "We want control in this area". Just don't put shrines up.

    If you can't defend them, or are worried about dying, don't defend them. RP doesn't mean you have to fight. RP a coward if you're that bothered about it, or like any great general, pick your battles. Choose hunting to re-raise instead of dying to the defilers and giving them more corpses to defile with.

    Pen a missive to Sapience, even speak to the people defiling and make that more RP oriented, find out their reasoning.

    If the defilers come back with some trash shit like "Lol defiling cuz u suk" sure, get annoyed about their lack of RP, don't let it affect how it has you react to it though.

    Can't defend, don't defend. Can defend, do defend. If you have shrines up, expect them to be dusted by any order, at any time, because they may want to control the area your shrines have taken. Make of it what you will.
  • KiskanKiskan
    Telinus said:
    I don't understand why orders feel they have a right to have shrines up in areas. The RP for aggressors could be as simple as "We want control in this area". Just don't put shrines up.

    If you can't defend them, or are worried about dying, don't defend them. RP doesn't mean you have to fight. RP a coward if you're that bothered about it, or like any great general, pick your battles. Choose hunting to re-raise instead of dying to the defilers and giving them more corpses to defile with.

    Pen a missive to Sapience, even speak to the people defiling and make that more RP oriented, find out their reasoning.

    If the defilers come back with some trash shit like "Lol defiling cuz u suk" sure, get annoyed about their lack of RP, don't let it affect how it has you react to it though.

    Can't defend, don't defend. Can defend, do defend. If you have shrines up, expect them to be dusted by any order, at any time, because they may want to control the area your shrines have taken. Make of it what you will.
    There is a long history of why people tend to feel this way, and I don't quite understand all of it, but yes, they will be a LOT happier if they can think about shrines this way, which is really the only way to think about them.  

    Part of the problem is that the PK side of the house is always trying to get people to walk through a door they are holding open.  Sometimes they are holding that door open fairly honestly "hey, anyone want to play?", but sometimes they are more coercive, so you have to try to be aware.  If you WANT to play and have a good idea of what the outcome will be and you can live with that and not be miserable, by all means, walk on through, but try not to get goaded through (this can be pretty tricky, they are pretty good at this).
  • RyzethRyzeth
    edited January 2017
    Kiskan said:

    Part of the problem is that the PK side of the house is always trying to get people to walk through a door they are holding open. 
    The other part of the problem is the people who start shit, then complain about everything possible when they get hit.
    Underworld? Expect ganks.
    Raid? Expect ganks.
    Dust shrines? Definitely expect ganks.
    Talk shit? Expect ganks.
    Actively do combat (proper combat. Not arena warriors)? Expect to be hit at some point, most likely.

    What's more annoying are the types who fall into one of the above categories, and scream/bitch/whine/issue when they get ganked. Unfortunately a large number of people, these days.
  • TelinusTelinus
    Kiskan said:
    Telinus said:
    I don't understand why orders feel they have a right to have shrines up in areas. The RP for aggressors could be as simple as "We want control in this area". Just don't put shrines up.

    If you can't defend them, or are worried about dying, don't defend them. RP doesn't mean you have to fight. RP a coward if you're that bothered about it, or like any great general, pick your battles. Choose hunting to re-raise instead of dying to the defilers and giving them more corpses to defile with.

    Pen a missive to Sapience, even speak to the people defiling and make that more RP oriented, find out their reasoning.

    If the defilers come back with some trash shit like "Lol defiling cuz u suk" sure, get annoyed about their lack of RP, don't let it affect how it has you react to it though.

    Can't defend, don't defend. Can defend, do defend. If you have shrines up, expect them to be dusted by any order, at any time, because they may want to control the area your shrines have taken. Make of it what you will.
    There is a long history of why people tend to feel this way, and I don't quite understand all of it, but yes, they will be a LOT happier if they can think about shrines this way, which is really the only way to think about them.  

    Part of the problem is that the PK side of the house is always trying to get people to walk through a door they are holding open.  Sometimes they are holding that door open fairly honestly "hey, anyone want to play?", but sometimes they are more coercive, so you have to try to be aware.  If you WANT to play and have a good idea of what the outcome will be and you can live with that and not be miserable, by all means, walk on through, but try not to get goaded through (this can be pretty tricky, they are pretty good at this).
    How are they pretty good at coercing people into PK? If you don't want to defend, don't defend. Don't join the army, don't stand in the defence party, don't go to the shrine that's being defiled, don't witness and run away, don't get involved in any way shape or form, go stand in another area, room, visit another city, go hunt, tell them explicitly "I am not part of the defense" and you will be left alone, if you're not, hire. If they repeatedly attack you regardless of these things, issue.

    If you get "goaded" into PVP when you don't want to, you deserve to whatever you get.


  • NaomaNaoma
    Frederich said:
    Naoma said:
    @Ahmet I for one can tell you a bunch of Eleusian's jumped to help you lot. @Gavriil, @Valaria, myself And I am sure I have missed some, however @Senoske had a list. Then to continue this where you say four, you also had @Hosko @Draqoom @Senoske @Nicca @Frederich @Epifania plus yourself. Just those listed with some form of combat even if you just touch a web tattoo that is TEN people that could have done more. Basic combat knowledge will and does help. I am not good at it by any stretch but having something to go off of will help instead of standing there twiddling thumbs.
    Why you saying I was there fighting.

    I wasn't.  OOC I was violently vomiting, trying not to go to the hospital.  Don't say I was helpin.
    I just saw you party up before I was leaving party to deal with stuff in Loosis
    nfinal.png


  • FrederichFrederich
    Yeah, I partied up because I said, "hey, Lylith just came in." then went to go vomit lmao.
  • SenoskeSenoske
    Frederich said:
    Yeah, I partied up because I said, "hey, Lylith just came in." then went to go vomit lmao.
    Hope ya feel better man.
  • NaomaNaoma
    @Frederich rest up then, I hope the sick and cooties poofs from you soon though. Feel better!
    nfinal.png


  • DunnDunn
    Jinsun said:
    To be fair, last night was hilarious. @Kasa attacked me so I started talking shit about Hashan then they raided, we really weren't able to put together a good defense for their numbers. While we're trying a last ditch effort to disarm, @Aegoth drops a crucible on everyone and everyone but @Emilea dies. Was pretty funny.
    Hahahaha I was curious. Nice. 


  • KarrenKarren
    Fucking Aegoth. :(
  • PuxiPuxi
    What the hell did I just read for the past 3 pages? Holy shit.
  • KiskanKiskan
    edited January 2017
    Telinus said:
    How are they pretty good at coercing people into PK? If you don't want to defend, don't defend. Don't join the army, don't stand in the defence party, don't go to the shrine that's being defiled, don't witness and run away, don't get involved in any way shape or form, go stand in another area, room, visit another city, go hunt, tell them explicitly "I am not part of the defense" and you will be left alone, if you're not, hire. If they repeatedly attack you regardless of these things, issue.

    If you get "goaded" into PVP when you don't want to, you deserve to whatever you get.
    It's something you (hopefully) develop an eye for if you spend at least a decent amount of time in PK.  It's actually much, much harder to see and understand if you're mostly outside the PK circles.  If you never ever want to PK at all, sure, the things you mention are essentially right.   

    One big weak point seems to be when people feel they have an obligation to keep defending at an org level well past the "oh god, will this ever end" point (super relevant with raids or shrine stuff).  One reason they feel that way basically boils down to RP, and I think the other boils down to perceived loss (guard killing would be an example).  The big PK-ers know this is a weakness and definitely know how to play that ace if they feel like it.  They will also tend to say things like "just keep hunting and rebuild them shrines so I can knock 'em down" rather than "do you really even WANT those shrines as a neutral Order full of Cyrenians?  Are they actually doing anything other than painting a big fat target on your ass"?

    With individuals, it often revolves around "banter".  Even very mild banter can be taken as an insult (didn't happen to me, but I learned very early from seeing it happen to someone else), so if you don't have a rapport with a PK-er who's talking to you, keep mum if they're "bantering" with you, because they might actually be baiting you (unless you actually do want to fight of course).  No idea how prevalent individual stuff is here.  
  • JinsunJinsun TN, USA
    Welcome to rants, brought to you by the Prospero shrine restoration fund.
    image
  • TelinusTelinus
    Kiskan said:
    Telinus said:
    How are they pretty good at coercing people into PK? If you don't want to defend, don't defend. Don't join the army, don't stand in the defence party, don't go to the shrine that's being defiled, don't witness and run away, don't get involved in any way shape or form, go stand in another area, room, visit another city, go hunt, tell them explicitly "I am not part of the defense" and you will be left alone, if you're not, hire. If they repeatedly attack you regardless of these things, issue.

    If you get "goaded" into PVP when you don't want to, you deserve to whatever you get.
    It's something you (hopefully) develop an eye for if you spend at least a decent amount of time in PK.  It's actually much, much harder to see and understand if you're mostly outside the PK circles.  If you never ever want to PK at all, sure, the things you mention are essentially right.   

    One big weak point seems to be when people feel they have an obligation to keep defending at an org level well past the "oh god, will this ever end" point (super relevant with raids or shrine stuff).  One reason they feel that way basically boils down to RP, and I think the other boils down to perceived loss (guard killing would be an example).  The big PK-ers know this is a weakness and definitely know how to play that ace if they feel like it.  They will also tend to say things like "just keep hunting and rebuild them shrines so I can knock 'em down" rather than "do you really even WANT those shrines as a neutral Order full of Cyrenians?  Are they actually doing anything other than painting a big fat target on your ass"?

    With individuals, it often revolves around "banter".  Even very mild banter can be taken as an insult (didn't happen to me, but I learned very early from seeing it happen to someone else), so if you don't have a rapport with a PK-er who's talking to you, keep mum if they're "bantering" with you, because they might actually be baiting you (unless you actually do want to fight of course).  No idea how prevalent individual stuff is here.  
    Been playing Achaea for over a decade in PK across various characters, as well as other IRE muds. Still don't see how someone who doesn't want to PK gets "goaded" into PK. Just don't do it, if you do, its on you not the other person, and you loose all rights to bitch about it.
  • AereidhnaAereidhna Dallas
    I see the whole just don't put tons of shrines up if you don't want to get stomped and understand it more now after this conversation, though I agree with Ahmet's and Senoske's observations as well (but mostly chalk it up to the culture shift in Achaea over the past years). That is how I deal with most PK situations (having little to lose) but I'll support whatever the Order decides and try to participate either way.
  • JinsunJinsun TN, USA
    Umm culture shift from what tanraids and kashari (or whatever it's called)
    image
  • KiskanKiskan
    I actually really sympathize with your position, because it would have been almost EXACTLY my position before I gained a better understanding of how stuff works.  I mean, from you point of view, you might as well be building sand castles.  "Why can't these guys leave my sand castles alone?!  They are pretty and sandy and aren't hurting anything and we don't pick fights gdi".  But... they are still what they are (and people are still allowed to kick them over whenever they like).  
  • AhmetAhmet Wherever I wanna be
    Anyway, how about them resolutions. 12% of my way through my first one. Gotta buy myself a new pair of shoes.
    Huh. Neat.
  • AhmetAhmet Wherever I wanna be
    edited January 2017 
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------The Convoluted Caertaker resolution:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Description:             Become a champion
Cost:                    10000
Reward:                  200 mementos of resolution
    Makarios plz.
    Huh. Neat.
  • LylithLylith
    What's annoying for me (and others I'm sure) is that I can't even join Babel in an official capacity and therefore can't defile shrines myself.
  • PuxiPuxi
    @Babel, come back bby.
  • AegothAegoth
    Lylith said:
    What's annoying for me (and others I'm sure) is that I can't even join Babel in an official capacity and therefore can't defile shrines myself.
    Sartan's order is open for bzns
  • KyrraKyrra Australia
    Lylith said:
    What's annoying for me (and others I'm sure) is that I can't even join Babel in an official capacity and therefore can't defile shrines myself.
    I know the feeling. 
    (D.M.A.): Cooper says, "Kyrra is either the most innocent person in the world, or the girl who uses the most innuendo seemingly unintentionally but really on purpose."

  • SarathaiSarathai
    Lylith said:
    What's annoying for me (and others I'm sure) is that I can't even join Babel in an official capacity and therefore can't defile shrines myself.
    Pretty sure you can defile (only one person can at a time though), you just can't desecrate?
    - (Eleusis): Ellodin says, "The Fissure of Echoes is Sarathai's happy place."
    - With sharp, crackling tones, Kyrra tells you, "The ladies must love you immensely."
    - (Eleusian Ranger Techs): Savira says, "Most of the hard stuff seem to have this built in code like: If adventurer_hitting_me = "Sarathai" then send("terminate and selfdestruct")."
    - Makarios says, "Serve well and perish."
    - Xaden says, "Xaden confirmed scrub 2017."



  • VallieVallie
    edited January 2017
    Puxi said:
    @Babel, come back bby.
    I thought this >.>
     


  • KarrenKarren
    Sarathai said:
    Lylith said:
    What's annoying for me (and others I'm sure) is that I can't even join Babel in an official capacity and therefore can't defile shrines myself.
    Pretty sure you can defile (only one person can at a time though), you just can't desecrate?

    You can't initiate any conflict without an order member, which sucks.
  • SarathaiSarathai
    :) Karren said:
    Sarathai said:
    Lylith said:
    What's annoying for me (and others I'm sure) is that I can't even join Babel in an official capacity and therefore can't defile shrines myself.
    Pretty sure you can defile (only one person can at a time though), you just can't desecrate?

    You can't initiate any conflict without an order member, which sucks.
    Then people shouldn't try and join what more or less amounts to dormant orders if they want to get into order-based conflict as more than a hanger-on. :)
    - (Eleusis): Ellodin says, "The Fissure of Echoes is Sarathai's happy place."
    - With sharp, crackling tones, Kyrra tells you, "The ladies must love you immensely."
    - (Eleusian Ranger Techs): Savira says, "Most of the hard stuff seem to have this built in code like: If adventurer_hitting_me = "Sarathai" then send("terminate and selfdestruct")."
    - Makarios says, "Serve well and perish."
    - Xaden says, "Xaden confirmed scrub 2017."



  • JhuiJhui
    edited January 2017
    Might be the Australian in you so I won't read into it
    image
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