Discussion of transparency

Shirszae

Kafziel said:

Nothing triggers me more than OOC concepts masked with pseudo-IC terminology. I'd rather get an OOC message 11 out of 10 times than have someone tell me they're a bit aeony or their soul is hungry

I hate the soul hungry thing, but I don't mind the 'I have Aeon' and fully prefer it to someone messaging me telling me they have lag

Tahquil

Adeleine said:

..... The only thing stopping the admins from making the game more fun for people who like transparency is the grognards who think their way of having fun is the only way people should be allowed to have fun.

I saw this and well, it needs to be altered a bit. It's not the grognards that is stopping this change going in. All of them could be swayed wanting more numbers and still there will be no change.

Why?

Because the proposed change is not a way the producers of Achaea want to go in developing this game. No matter how long you argue in this thread, or petitions you get signed, or protest that may get staged games the decision lies with two people, Makarios and Nicola, one of which has already said it is not happening.

The perpetuation of this argument and thread is only breeding ill feelings between players as they argue in circles and get frustrated waiting for a change that will never come.

Krypton

Synbios said:

Think of the honors lines of every person ever!

Don't forget:

Credits currently available for purchase:<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <em>[Unholy darkness obfuscates your perception completely]</em> credits at&nbsp; <em>[Unholy darkness obfuscates your perception completely]</em> gold per credit.<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <em>[Unholy darkness obfuscates your perception completely]</em> credits at&nbsp; <em>[Unholy darkness obfuscates your perception completely]</em> gold per credit.<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <em>[Unholy darkness obfuscates your perception completely]</em> credits at&nbsp; <em>[Unholy darkness obfuscates your perception completely]</em> gold per credit.<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <em>[Unholy darkness obfuscates your perception completely]</em> credits at&nbsp; <em>[Unholy darkness obfuscates your perception completely]</em> gold per credit.<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <em>[Unholy darkness obfuscates your perception completely]</em> credits at&nbsp; <em>[Unholy darkness obfuscates your perception completely]</em> gold per credit.<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <em>[Unholy darkness obfuscates your perception completely]</em> credits at&nbsp; <em>[Unholy darkness obfuscates your perception completely]</em> gold per credit.<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <em>[Unholy darkness obfuscates your perception completely]</em> credits at&nbsp; <em>[Unholy darkness obfuscates your perception completely]</em> gold per credit.<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <em>[Unholy darkness obfuscates your perception completely]</em> credits at&nbsp; <em>[Unholy darkness obfuscates your perception completely]</em> gold per credit.<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <em>[Unholy darkness obfuscates your perception completely]</em> credits at&nbsp; <em>[Unholy darkness obfuscates your perception completely]</em> gold per credit.<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <em>[Unholy darkness obfuscates your perception completely]</em> credits at&nbsp; <em>[Unholy darkness obfuscates your perception completely]</em> gold per credit.<br>Total credits for sale: <em>[Unholy darkness obfuscates your perception completely]</em> shown (<em>[Unholy darkness obfuscates your perception completely]</em> total)&nbsp; (Average sale price: <em>[Unholy darkness obfuscates your perception completely]</em>)<br>Use CREDITS BUY <number> AT <max gold per credit> to purchase.

Jonathin

credits buy darkness for darkness

Nazihk

Shirszae said:

I hate the soul hungry thing, but I don't mind the 'I have Aeon' and fully prefer it to someone messaging me telling me they have lag

The "I have aeon" thing bothers me because Aeon is a specific thing, and that thing is not lag.

Anyways, that aside, Aeon is curable so it would be more accurate for them to say that they're retarded. :P

Adeleine

Nazihk said:

Shirszae said:

I hate the soul hungry thing, but I don't mind the 'I have Aeon' and fully prefer it to someone messaging me telling me they have lag

The "I have aeon" thing bothers me because Aeon is a specific thing, and that thing is not lag.

Anyways, that aside, Aeon is curable so it would be more accurate for them to say that they're retarded. :P

: "I'm getting a lot of aeon right now."

: "Just smoke elm or cinnabar, that cures aeon!"

 : "No, no, I have soul aeon. "

Vender

okay i think i get it now. numbers are obfuscating, language is not. level 88 is ic, and circles are dumb. saying LAG is preferable to referring to in-game mechanics for immersion, market cfs is preferrable to "credits for sale".

note i have no problems adjusting to these above concepts.

all i want to know is when will i get the next newspeak dictionary edition and will i still think 2+2 = 5 after the tsol'teth process me.

Zahan

@tahquil

If people were swearing or gif trolling, then the desire to avoid talking about this would have merit.  Short of that, let people talk about stuff even if you don't want to talk about it.  That is pretty much the whole opposition is that mindset - I don't like it so you shouldn't have it and I'm glad they took it away from you.

As far as the comments about this being completely meaningless and for nothing: you aren't seeing what's going on here.  The administration are not ignoring this thread.  This thread has gotten more action in a short time than any other threads I've seen on here for a while.  They're watching it and reading it, even if just to moderate it.  

They're potentially seeing that the opposition to transparency are just whining about personal desire and have no problem ruining other people's fun for their own very limited gain.  They're hearing super sound and undeniable arguments for preserving some things as they are now, and even support for offering more options (which could net them credit sales for new artefacts).  

Barring all that then in the very least, they most likely realized they won't be able to just yank stuff out of the game willy nilly, that has been in the game since it was created in 1962, because they've decided to "change the direction" of the only IRE game with any bit of success, without at least preparing themselves to trudge through half of dozen pages of discussion about it on the forum a year later*.

*(I had no clue it would get this much attention, honestly.  i just made this thread to give people a chance to fling shit back at me for my blunt comments in the questions thread without pissing off a moderator).
 

Best case scenario is that they're getting a better understanding of their playerbase in a game they're new to producing, and maybe even decide there can be some middle ground if done tastefully.  Maybe they're starting to appreciate offering that could encourage credit sales (as has been stated).  They may decide to add an artefact for 500 credits that let's you see denizen hp to the tenth - it would take such little time to code that up that if only Sena bought it, the effort would be more than paid for.  

At the end of this day, though, we just don't know what will happen.  You could be right and Mak could be sitting there shaking his head, arguing with the logic presented by more people than not, insistent that only he and a few closed-minded selfish individuals knows what's best for this game.  It may be his way or the highway.  He may be content with driving every last player out of this game because of it, laughing maniacally as he continues to slowly gut achaea of all that we hold dear. 

I'm putting my money on that they're listening and not just blowing it off.  Mak doesn't seem totally unreasonable to me.  They may not do anything about the requests made here and I expect they won't, not even a new artefact let alone a free trait.  People for sure aren't getting back falcon health.  But if at least they're listening, then it was worth the discussion.

Szanthax

What about a test server where this info is available. 5person login@once max. Timeout set to 5 minutes cant config.

Allows people to see what they want to see... Doesn't impact the playerbase at large. Probably would cost money

Kiskan

Vender said:

okay i think i get it now. numbers are obfuscating, language is not. level 88 is ic, and circles are dumb. saying LAG is preferable to referring to in-game mechanics for immersion, market cfs is preferrable to "credits for sale".

note i have no problems adjusting to these above concepts.

all i want to know is when will i get the next newspeak dictionary edition and will i still think 2+2 = 5 after the tsol'teth process me.

It does crack me up how hard some people are hammering away at the guys who still cling to some of the "omg OOC" things that have (thankfully) fallen out of fashion.  But those guys are not just dreaming those things up or even exaggerating the fact that they were fairly hard and firm community standards at one time.  Because the way it's being discussed sort of smacks of "oh no, that was never the way it was, just a few crazies might have said that".  But those absolutely were things that plenty of people would have happily swooped down on you for and sent you to roleplay reeducation camp at one time, no question.  Those WERE the prevailing opinions that ruled the day.   

I am glad that several of the games have slowly, painfully moved away from some of the more asinine and arbitrary designations of what is "gratingly OOC" and what is "just really, really stupid", but there's definitely a sort of lie of omission going on - sort of like no one admits to being vaguely homophobic in the early 90s or something.

Actually, give it some time (but I do mean several years).  I bet they do end up relaxing things a bit more on the numbers some people seem to want.  This player base is in its prime working years and just hitting full stride.  Makarios is going to dream up all kinds of new and glorious stuff and people working long hours and trying to dabble in their text game are just going to slowly want more numbers for anything that really matters and doesn't give it currently, I think, for sheer ease - and they will insist they always felt that way, of course.

EDIT:  possibly sooner if Sena gets promoted out of having time to do all of Achaea's math for everyone... :P

Vender

sign me up for that rp reeducation camp because ignorance is bliss

Cooper

Krypton said:

When Gattan'bahar 2.0 arrives, her new ability will be casting darkness, not over land, but over all numerical values:

[Unholy darkness obfuscates your perception completely] credit jackpot on the next [Unholy darkness obfuscates your perception completely] spins of the Wheel!

It's funny cause this is exactly how it just happened.

Anedhel

The only thing I continue to get from threads like these and Reisen's in the Arena is just how opinionated and inflexible our transplant communities are (with a tremendous penchant for proclaiming freedom!).  

Cynlael

Anedhel said:

The only thing I continue to get from threads like these and Reisen's in the Arena is just how opinionated and inflexible our transplant communities are (with a tremendous penchant for proclaiming freedom!).  

Welcome to Land of Retirement! Free straitjackets to the left.

Synbios

Adeleine said:

Nazihk said:

Shirszae said:

I hate the soul hungry thing, but I don't mind the 'I have Aeon' and fully prefer it to someone messaging me telling me they have lag

The "I have aeon" thing bothers me because Aeon is a specific thing, and that thing is not lag.

Anyways, that aside, Aeon is curable so it would be more accurate for them to say that they're retarded. :P

: "I'm getting a lot of aeon right now."

: "Just smoke elm or cinnabar, that cures aeon!"

 : "No, no, I have soul aeon. "

Soul smoke some soul elm or soul cinnabar then!

Jonathin

Vender said:

okay i think i get it now. numbers are obfuscating, language is not. level 88 is ic, and circles are dumb. saying LAG is preferable to referring to in-game mechanics for immersion, market cfs is preferrable to "credits for sale".

note i have no problems adjusting to these above concepts.

all i want to know is when will i get the next newspeak dictionary edition and will i still think 2+2 = 5 after the tsol'teth process me.

No, saying lag is not preferable. Idgaf if you're laggy. I don't need to know. Suffer in silence.

Adeleine

Daeir said:

Or "I'm finding it a little hard to focus for the moment, hold on."

"Eat some goldenseal!"
"No, I mean it's hard for my SOUL to focus."

Korben

Zahan said:

At the end of this day, though, we just don't know what will happen.  You could be right and Mak could be sitting there shaking his head, arguing with the logic presented by more people than not, insistent that only he and a few closed-minded selfish individuals knows what's best for this game.  It may be his way or the highway.  He may be content with driving every last player out of this game because of it, laughing maniacally as he continues to slowly gut achaea of all that we hold dear. 

I'm putting my money on that they're listening and not just blowing it off.  Mak doesn't seem totally unreasonable to me.  They may not do anything about the requests made here and I expect they won't, not even a new artefact let alone a free trait.  People for sure aren't getting back falcon health.  But if at least they're listening, then it was worth the discussion.

On the one hand, Matt has stated that at some point you have to insist on your vision of the game no matter how many players want otherwise because it's your game and your vision. On the other hand, some aspects of the game have been changed after reasonable arguments were presented for the changes, in the face of an opposition that did not have equally reasonable arguments. Sometimes it took years but it happened.

Cynlael

I wish eating goldenseal cured insomnia irl.

Zahan

Daeir said:

Adeleine said:

Daeir said:

Or "I'm finding it a little hard to focus for the moment, hold on."

"Eat some goldenseal!"
"No, I mean it's hard for my SOUL to focus."

AHA YOU SEE YOU JUST USED A VERB THAT IS REFLECTED BY A COMMONLY USED COMMAND OR MECHANIC IN THE GAME

LET US ENGAGE USING SIMILAR TERMINOLOGY TO MAKE A NONSENSICAL QUIP ABOUT HOW THIS SUPPOSEDLY MAKES NO SENSE

"HELLO I AM THIRSTY"

"NO YOU ARE NOT BECAUSE THIRST IS NOT A MECHANIC IN THIS UNIVERSE"

HAHAHAHA WE CAN ALL RELATE TO THIS FAUX-PAS HOW IRRITATING

RP is dead.

RP is dead.  On my recent mmo spurt, everytime I would pick the RP server.  Not so much for the hopes of finding a hapless noobie siren in the woods, but just to get away from the score of the recent football game, what happened in game of thrones, and the spray you just got for your nastyass foot fungus.  It never worked though - that crap was always still there.

That is one aspect of achaea that I appreciate.  I can game for 4 hours without having to turn off public channels.  People here may not be rp'ing but they're keeping it in character.  

I reckon that's why I stand where I do on transparency because for me, relative to what you would experience in most other "rp" game areas, a few numbers is completely harmless.  I've seen even the most "hardcore rp communities" in other places blab mostly about OOC stuff.  

Adeleine

Daeir said:

capslock spasm

I RP all the time. Dunno what game you're playing.

Adeleine

Daeir said:

I keep expecting people to be Blujixapug and understand capslock posting but apparently not.

Oh well.

It's really hard to understand if you're being serious or facetious in that post.

Cooper

Adeleine said:

Daeir said:

I keep expecting people to be Blujixapug and understand capslock posting but apparently not.

Oh well.

It's really hard to understand if you're being serious or facetious in that post.

No, no it's not.

Viho

He was dead srs

Bann

Super Cereal

Kiskan

Anedhel said:

The only thing I continue to get from threads like these and Reisen's in the Arena is just how opinionated and inflexible our transplant communities are (with a tremendous penchant for proclaiming freedom!).  

The problem is that a lot of people don't come for Achaea per se - they come for (the size of) Achaea's player base, because of all the games, Achaea has enough people that the number of people itself helps the game attract more people, even if those people are weighing Achaea against their own game and saying "I actually like mine better".  At best they're gritting their teeth knowing they need to try to keep their mouths shut (and maybe even publicly show some limited support for current prevailing attitudes) and at worst they're going "ugh, okay, this is harder for me to accept than I thought it would be".  

This is why I hope IRE doesn't cave to the possible temptation of letting the other games fall by the wayside (although they will never actually close them) and figure that they'll just suck everyone into Achaea.  That is going to be (is already to some extent?) a lot of squabbling unhappy players (all of whom are fairly opinionated and inflexible if we're being honest) who want some very different things that can't really coexist in a single game.  Those other games can provide an outlet for there to be a more personally satisfying niche for more players without stepping all over one another.

Khel

Viho said:

He was dead

RIP @Daeir

Szanthax

Every night.. . in my dreams...

I see you, I feel you...

Tahquil

Szanthax said:

Every night.. . in my dreams...

I see you, I feel you...

*honk honk*

Trey

Daeir said:

Khel said:

Viho said:

He was dead

RIP @Daeir

Will you sing My Heart Will Go On for me, Khel?