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Discussion of transparency

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  • AdeleineAdeleine
          
  • MishgulMishgul Trondheim, Norway
    How do you declare that something is IC or OOC in this instance? This all comes down to personal preference surely. Numbers can be IC. You can call people IC nerds for knowing IC numbers too.

    -

    One of the symptoms of an approaching nervous breakdown is the belief that one's work is terribly important

    As drawn by Shayde
    hic locus est ubi mors gaudet succurrere vitae
  • AdeleineAdeleine
    What bugs me a little is the complete dismissal of any attempt to improve the game's transparency as "Oh, well they're just from Aetolia/Imperian, so their opinion doesn't matter!" Okay, dude. They all run on the same engine and are made by the same company. Any improvement done there is feasible here. The only thing stopping the admins from making the game more fun for people who like transparency is the grognards who think their way of having fun is the only way people should be allowed to have fun.
  • VenderVender
    honestly if there was announce and the numbers were introduced but the default config set up was off, most people would not ever know it was there
    spread positivity
  • ElynitharaElynithara Cyrene
    People on both sides of the argument are severely overstating the impact of any change like the one proposed. I enjoyed seeing just how much my stat changes affected damage on npcs, particularly when stacking bonuses (artifacts, buffs, etc), or when trying out a new class. It is super convenient, and it did not detract from my enjoyment of the game at all. Likewise, not having access to the numbers does not matter to me at all. I still go hunt the gnolls in Manara and although I have no idea how good my drawslash is compared to other classes' attacks, I'm still killing the mobs and levelling up.

    There's a lot of focus on how playing the game my way is not going to prevent you from playing it your way, and it's not really leading anywhere in the discussion. I'd rather see some of the other QoL improvements that other IRE games has ('attire' is pretty awesome), although by the looks of it, lots has already filtered into Achaea (poses and whatnot).

  • AntoniusAntonius
    @Elynithara How does "attire" work? There's some kind of outfit system in Achaea, though I've never used it personally.

    Results of disembowel testing | Knight limb counter | GMCP AB files

  • ShaydeShayde
    edited October 2016
    Attire in Aetolia allows you to customize the way clothes are worn on your body, it will also allow you to conceal items, and shift things around on your body. Maybe your girlfriend bought you a very tacky vest. Or you want to wear your cape on your shoulders instead of your back. I was always entirely too lazy to set different "poses" and would just let them be standard slots. Also, it uses a slot system, while Achaea uses an organization system by "type" suggested by Ognog back in 2015. I prefer not having a slot system only because people tend to wear a lot, it ends up spamming me to oblivion. (See Taraus and her jewelry <3)



  • AdeleineAdeleine
    Shayde said:
    Attire in Aetolia allows you to customize the way clothes are worn on your body, it will also allow you to conceal items, and shift things around on your body. Maybe your girlfriend bought you a very tacky vest. Or you want to wear your cape on your shoulders instead of your back. I was always entirely too lazy to set different "poses" and would just let them be standard slots. Also, it uses a slot system, while Achaea uses an organization system by "type" suggested by Ognog back in 2015. I prefer not having a slot system only because people tend to wear a lot, it ends up spamming me to oblivion. (See Taraus and her jewelry <3)
    You can CONFIG CLOTHESLINE OFF to significantly reduce the spam.
  • JinsunJinsun TN, USA
    Just to add to the pile:


    image
  • KiskanKiskan
    Ideally, having different games allows different types of players to get catered to, because this really is one of those things where you have to make some kind of decision.  Do I expose most numbers and how they work, and my whole mindset is "sure, unless there is a really compelling reason NOT to expose it, we'll share it"?  Or is it more "we feel that a lot of our players don't like the idea of that much numerical detail being visible PERIOD, and it also encourages too much fiddly mathiness"?  You can't really have both there.  You do have to pick.  You can move the line back and forth a bit, but it's going to lean one way or the other.  And someone isn't going to like whatever you pick. 

    The people who insist that you can't discuss numbers in any sort of detail worth mentioning do grate on me though (and obviously, people like me grate on them).  To me though, it is as though arithmetic is inherently OOC or something (see Viho's post).  I basically don't want to play in a game with people like that because you pretty much HAVE to accommodate them or you are "breaking their immersion".  And that's actually another sort of thing where there has to be some kind of agreement on where the "line" is - and that one is interesting, because it seems like there is some renegotiating of where that line should be.
  • AhmetAhmet Wherever I wanna be
    Mishgul said:
    How do you declare that something is IC or OOC in this instance? This all comes down to personal preference surely. Numbers can be IC. You can call people IC nerds for knowing IC numbers too.
    "The thing is almost dead" is IC.

    "The thing is at one-thousand and twenty-three health out of it's maximum of seven-thousand four-hundred and forty-seven" is not.
    Huh. Neat.
  • AdeleineAdeleine
    Antonius said:

    Sorry, but I don't see why you can't just accept that Achaeans are naturally good at precisely quantifying things. There's no reason to consider stats, maximum health, etc. to be OOC other than your own weird decision to do so.

    The funny thing is, things like room numbers would make even MORE sense than health numbers/stats IC ("I have a map with coordinates on it!") but the admins have specifically ruled that they're OOC.
  • AhmetAhmet Wherever I wanna be
    Stat numbers have definitely been considered OOC in the past. Not totally sure when that changed (if ever).
    Huh. Neat.
  • VenderVender
    Ahmet said:
    Mishgul said:
    How do you declare that something is IC or OOC in this instance? This all comes down to personal preference surely. Numbers can be IC. You can call people IC nerds for knowing IC numbers too.
    "The thing is almost dead" is IC.

    "The thing is at one-thousand and twenty-three health out of it's maximum of seven-thousand four-hundred and forty-seven" is not.
    what about market cfs ?
    spread positivity
  • AhmetAhmet Wherever I wanna be
    Vender said:
    Ahmet said:
    Mishgul said:
    How do you declare that something is IC or OOC in this instance? This all comes down to personal preference surely. Numbers can be IC. You can call people IC nerds for knowing IC numbers too.
    "The thing is almost dead" is IC.

    "The thing is at one-thousand and twenty-three health out of it's maximum of seven-thousand four-hundred and forty-seven" is not.
    what about market cfs ?
    Sovereigns are countable? What does that have anything to do... what?
    Huh. Neat.
  • SenaSena
    Years ago, back when Clementius was around, levels and level numbers (and the use of the word "level" to refer to them) were considered entirely IC.
  • AdeleineAdeleine
    edited October 2016
    Sena said:
    Years ago, back when Clementius was around, levels and level numbers (and the use of the word "level" to refer to them) were considered entirely IC.
    In the other games, they typically use "circles" to refer to levels. But if you do HELP CIRCLES here, it makes fun of you. :(
  • AntoniusAntonius
    Adeleine said:
    Sena said:
    Years ago, back when Clementius was around, levels and level numbers (and the use of the word "level" to refer to them) were considered entirely IC.
    In the other games, they typically use "circles" to refer to levels. But if you do HELP CIRCLES here, it makes fun of you. :(

    It makes fun of you because it was fucking dumb. Some people decided that "level" was OOC, but "circle of experience" was a totally fine substitute (how are they not the same thing?). Pretty sure HELP LEVEL(S?) still addresses this explicitly and says that "level" is the correct and preferred term.

    Totally unrelated, but the LOL emote used to show "X has just proven him/herself unfit for survival." or something along those lines, too. Pretty sure our admin just like making fun of people.

    Results of disembowel testing | Knight limb counter | GMCP AB files

  • AdeleineAdeleine
    Antonius said:
    Totally unrelated, but the LOL emote used to show "X has just proven him/herself unfit for survival." or something along those lines, too. Pretty sure our admin just like making fun of people.
    I miss this. :(

    Some emotes still make fun of you if you do them without a target. Like eskiss. Or if you SWIM on land.
  • KiskanKiskan
    Armali said:
    As an April's Fools joke, I'd like to see every single number in the game obfuscated.

    WE'RE GONNA GET IMMERSED.
    Just remember, you asked for this :3  People will forget and I have a feeling it's just too much for a griefy-hearted admin to resist.
  • JonathinJonathin Retired in a hole.
    edited October 2016
    Antonius said:

    It makes fun of you because it was fucking dumb. Some people decided that "level" was OOC, but "circle of experience" was a totally fine substitute (how are they not the same thing?). Pretty sure HELP LEVEL(S?) still addresses this explicitly and says that "level" is the correct and preferred term.
    Not exactly related to the OP, but I felt like chiming this tidbit in because it bothers me.

    On the other side of the substitution thing, I like this statement because it reminds me of the whole "omg i'm experiencing aeon!" over IC channels. Lag is lag, no matter how you refer to it. It doesn't stop being lag if you give it the same name as something (or Someone) in the game.

    I am retired and log into the forums maybe once every 2 months. It was a good 20 years, live your best lives, friends.
  • CynlaelCynlael
    Jonathin said:

    I'll always remember this post.

  • AegothAegoth
    Cynlael said:
    Jonathin said:

    I'll always remember this post.
    I love posts of me winning :D
  • SynbiosSynbios
    Krypton said:
    When Gattan'bahar 2.0 arrives, her new ability will be casting darkness, not over land, but over all numerical values:

    [Unholy darkness obfuscates your perception completely] credit jackpot on the next [Unholy darkness obfuscates your perception completely] spins of the Wheel!

    Think of the honors lines of every person ever!

  • ShirszaeShirszae Santo Domingo
    Jonathin said:
    Antonius said:

    It makes fun of you because it was fucking dumb. Some people decided that "level" was OOC, but "circle of experience" was a totally fine substitute (how are they not the same thing?). Pretty sure HELP LEVEL(S?) still addresses this explicitly and says that "level" is the correct and preferred term.
    Not exactly related to the OP, but I felt like chiming this tidbit in because it bothers me.

    On the other side of the substitution thing, I like this statement because it reminds me of the whole "omg i'm experiencing aeon!" over IC channels. Lag is lag, no matter how you refer to it. It doesn't stop being lag if you give it the same name as something (or Someone) in the game.

    Well, the point is not that it stops being lag, the point is giving it a more acceptable name than lag so that people know why you are being slow to respond/whatever.

    And you won't understand the cause of your grief...


    ...But you'll always follow the voices beneath.

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