Furniture? Really?

Jinsun

I understand the limitations of having oversight and help with customisation, but customisation, at least to me is about 95% of what makes achaea better than say WOW. You can craft standardized shit on wow. A crafting skill here that requires like $100 cash value to learn and has 0 customization benefits is not something that is shiny or cool to me in a text game. Hell, I'd rather just be able to pay IRE 10 dollars for a couch or whatever furniture I need without shitting with the skillset and comms to get a non unique item that I can sit on.

Melodie

So get someone to make you a bare bones base of an item, then put it through the customisation system. 

I can agree that having more in-game non-credit customisation would be fantastic and preferred, but it's been stated numerous times they don't have the admin time to spare for it, nor the admin time to spare to watch over players doing the checks instead.

I mean, unless there's a brilliant alternative no one's mentioned yet, I have no idea why people are surprised, much less annoyed/angry about it.

Jinsun

To clarify, I'm not angry about it, but I do think that if limited staff is the issue, that "pay $50 for someone to edit a text paragraph representing the furniture that already took hundreds of credits and hours of gold to make" is a pretty flimsy cop out. I think if people are angry about this, sure that's a bit pushing it, but I can understand why people think this is kind of lame and just another cash grab. It puts more strain on the comms market while requiring credits and time build up to get essentially the same thing you had before. It's an unnattractive move, and I think people are justified to comment. If you create a product and create a forum where people can give feedback, you can't really be upset when people call you out for providing lacklustre content that costs them more than what they already had access to.

Mishgul

Nice work @Cellorran

Asmodron

Yes please to lumberjacking ^^

Oh and god yes to brewing. Id get that so fast that id open my own achaean bar.

Khaibit

Ahahaha, I go to sleep and it get's worse. 
I no longer feel bad about being mad about the tradeskill. 

Cellorran

Mishgul said:

Nice work @Cellorran

Hey, thanks! I give all due credit to bourbon. Just a couple of quick things about Furnishing and why it was chosen as an option to be the next cool toy:

Moving from old furniture to new furniture expands our systems in no small way. Before, furniture was locked down in its own little world, to put it simply. Having fully integrated, dynamic furniture is going to set an awesome precedent that can be built upon in lots of cool ways. If the general consensus is that the built-in descriptors are far too generic and could be made better, it is simply done. If there is excellent feedback for different materials (or even different types of furniture, for that matter), it can now easily be done. There is no plan to stop here with the furniture expansion after spending such a long development cycle building tools to dynamically grow with it - that would be silly.

Suffice to say that the more legacy code that is cleaned up, the easier it is to build on our systems to deliver quality content to you.

Furthermore, Achaea is proud to be a game that puts a mind-boggling amount of control in the players' hands. Elections, leadership, crafting, the entirety of the economy - it's all fluid and such an immersive ecosystem. Something as enjoyable (and with as much potential) as furniture should not be gated behind denizen sales and rigid hard-coded libraries when it could be another dimension of player interaction and freedom, at least in my opinion. Doing some basic math will show that the cost for furniture is roughly the same as it was, divvied up between commodities and gold. It still eats gold as a gold-sink when shop fees are applied, and it serves to stimulate the commodity marketplace.

With the added dimension of samples and rarity of materials, I'm sure we'll see some interesting stuff happen with labour fees and profit margins for Furnishers. With Furniture that may be sold in shops, we'll likely see a large demand for the skill in the coming months. Yes, learning Furnishing is an investment just like any other tradeskill, but some quick estimations and number crunching show that it has a high potential for profit. 

Okay, Cellorran, I'm still entirely unimpressed. 

Okay! If Furnishing isn't your cup of tea or if you're going to hold out until the next cool thing comes along, it will have exactly zero impact on your life. In fact, if you just ignored the last 24 hours, the biggest change in your life would probably just be seeing the occasional 'buffing my wood' joke on market channel. So for any mention of 'money-grabbing': I personally feel as though something that is cool, fun, luxurious, and has zero impact on you whatsoever if you choose not to interact with it, is the furthest thing from. And if you choose to pass on this one, fortunately you have a very, very dedicated team of staff and volunteers that put you first (sometimes even before their friends and family), so you can rest assured that we're already working on the next big thing for you.

In closing, we look forward to expanding on furniture and Furnishing. We now have the tools to make it as awesome as the feedback we receive, and I personally look forward to working with the player-base on making it the coolest and immersive tradeskill that it can possibly be. Unfortunately TV stands are out of RP scope, so we might still have TVs flying around, @Khaibit.

Trey

I'm not exactly excited for furniture as a tradeskill but everything @Celloran said was on point. There doesn't seem to be any good reason to have dedicated a thread to bash it, particularly in the outraged tone that it was presented in.

Aegoth

I still want my truefavour throne

Cellorran

Aegoth said:

I still want my truefavour throne

Could you settle for a truefavour statue?

(too soon, Khalas?)

Klendathu

Cellorran said:
... the occasional 'buffing my wood' joke on market channel...

fnrr.

Mishgul

Cellorran said:

Mishgul said:

Nice work @Cellorran

Hey, thanks! I give all due credit to bourbon.

Good old Ballmer peak

Kiskan

This thread kind of went from "man, that Khaibit guy, what a jerk" to "wait, I don't know if I like this either", heh.  

The thing that frustrates me when these things comes up every once in awhile is a couple of things.  First, there is (still, in 2016) this persistent idea that the game is free and that the staff are all volunteer hobbyists who just try to build this really cool game on weekends.  And then sometimes in the next sentence it's "but this is a business".  I think we just need to agree that it IS a business, and drop the pretense of the first part.  

And either way, for a lot of players who do buy stuff, this game is more like a serious cocaine habit than a free game we dabble in.  That is in fact, the actual model.  

Now just because we pay doesn't mean we get to throw TVs at people who make the high grade cocaine we buy, but sometimes players aren't going to like the new product, and they're going to say it, especially if they feel they're getting squeezed.

Austere

Kiskan said:

This thread kind of went from "man, that Khaibit guy, what a jerk" to "wait, I don't know if I like this either", heh.  

The thing that frustrates me when these things comes up every once in awhile is a couple of things.  First, there is (still, in 2016) this persistent idea that the game is free and that the staff are all volunteer hobbyists who just try to build this really cool game on weekends.  And then sometimes in the next sentence it's "but this is a business".  I think we just need to agree that it IS a business, and drop the pretense of the first part.  

And either way, for a lot of players who do buy stuff, this game is more like a serious cocaine habit than a free game we dabble in.  That is in fact, the actual model.  

Now just because we pay doesn't mean we get to throw TVs at people who make the high grade cocaine we buy, but sometimes players aren't going to like the new product, and they're going to say it, especially if they feel they're getting squeezed.

Cocaine? More like heroin. Gotta get that fix

Mishgul

Kiskan said:

This thread kind of went from "man, that Khaibit guy, what a jerk" to "wait, I don't know if I like this either", heh.  

The thing that frustrates me when these things comes up every once in awhile is a couple of things.  First, there is (still, in 2016) this persistent idea that the game is free and that the staff are all volunteer hobbyists who just try to build this really cool game on weekends.  And then sometimes in the next sentence it's "but this is a business".  I think we just need to agree that it IS a business, and drop the pretense of the first part.  

And either way, for a lot of players who do buy stuff, this game is more like a serious cocaine habit than a free game we dabble in.  That is in fact, the actual model.  

Now just because we pay doesn't mean we get to throw TVs at people who make the high grade cocaine we buy, but sometimes players aren't going to like the new product, and they're going to say it, especially if they feel they're getting squeezed.

This reminds me of a mildly funny story, I was once in a rampage against @Lyn or @Lynn (can't remember which) who was a bard (painful class to fight against for dual cutting infernal) and had just disemboweled when I disconnected. I was on 600/2400 health when I disconnected and had seen her survive my disembowel and assumed I had lost, and I was mad because I was one rampage away from finishing my Maldaathi requirement for the next rank.

I logged in ready to rant my butt off (I was good at ranting and being a general douchebag back then) when Lyn just turned it around and yelled at me for being able to kill her while I was d/cd (she had died to my falcon). Her exact quote was "I have spent all this money on arties to die to an unartied noob infernal, this game is basically crack that punches me in the face." 

I never saw her log in after that.

Jinsun

@Cellorran I am always impressed with your responses to feedback. You're always a joy to work with and a very amicable content producer. Thank you for hearing our feedback and assuring us that there will be deeper levels of content creation to come.

Bleak

Do you work with him?

Asmodron

Cellorran said:

Aegoth said:

I still want my truefavour throne

Could you settle for a truefavour statue?

(too soon, Khalas?)

Aerek

Yeah, just furniture getting moved away from the old, confining system is actually a pretty huge deal to anyone familiar with it. Just becoming "normal" items actually makes possible several things that I've wished and asked for in the past, but were impossible due to their legacy nature. It's a neat move even if nothing is added to it in the future, which is almost certainly not going to be the case, with Nicola's thread and Celloran's hinting in mind.

...We'll see if lockables is one of those new options.

Jinsun

Bleak said:

Do you work with him?

On one or two things, yes. Sometimes the admin communicate with players about content and how it is being developed or works. That's part of what makes Achaea great.

Bleak

You mean them harassment issues?

Jonathin

Go away, Bleak, we don't need you sniping at people here, too. Especially when Jinsun is being perfectly reasonable and civilised.

Jinsun

Jonathin said:

Go away, Bleak, we don't need you sniping at people here, too. Especially when Jinsun is being perfectly reasonable and civilised.

If he'll stick to being mediocre at serpent while maintaining his harmless and laughably ignorant troll status and stay away from working with the admin on content creation, I think we can all just be glad for that.

Achimrst

Asmodron said:

Yes please to lumberjacking ^^

<boring crap>

You can have lumberjacking when I get gigantic 3k a hit 5 stacks of Ent guards in every inch of the forests. GDI

Asmodron

Achimrst said:

Asmodron said:

Yes please to lumberjacking ^^

<boring crap>

You can have lumberjacking when I get gigantic 3k a hit 5 stacks of Ent guards in every inch of the forests. GDI

Ooooo yes to large Ent guardians in forests hitting for 3k slowly. No stacking and it's a deal ^^

Achimrst

Asmodron said:

Achimrst said:

Asmodron said:

Yes please to lumberjacking ^^

<boring crap>

You can have lumberjacking when I get gigantic 3k a hit 5 stacks of Ent guards in every inch of the forests. GDI

Ooooo yes to large Ent guardians in forests hitting for 3k slowly. No stacking and it's a deal ^^

There will be forest enemy stacking, .85 balance times per hit.

Rangor

Khaibit said:

So, people beg and beg for years for drinks, or containers,  or something fun and useful, and the tradeskill we get is furniture? 
Something used rarely?
Something that removes a money sink from the game?

I had a tv thrown at my head the other night, and yet this upsets me more.

Have you never dreamed of becoming a Carpenter?

Jinsun

If carpentry is gonna be a thing can I get a free name change?

Proficy

Sooo, i'm late to the thread and don't want to change topics or anything.... butttt... now that the time and effort put into this tradeskill are done. Does this mean we can focus now on fixing things that have been a matter of concern for X amount of years. like how to fix this screwy game mechanic  ( thothsfang+lightwall+hypnosis= what were you thinking? )

@Nicola @makarios @sarapis

Cynlael

While we're at it, let's take a look at dual blunt dps (even without your artis it's still pretty horrendous) and alchemist aff rate too

eta: I'd say Monk too, but if the past... Nearly two decades... Are anything to go by, complaints about Monk generally don't go all that great.