@Xaden I realise it's not going to 100% wipe out armoursmithing, it's just.. super frustrating after dumping literally millions of gold into a tradeskill that was supposed to have a long term return. I kinda just needed to vent.
If you've spent millions on it, I have to assume you're Master/Grandmaster/Legendary or close. If that's true, I'm pretty confident you'll make more return off charging for Embrasures than selling regular armour. I don't know what lucrative contracts you've lined up for your regular armour crafting, but I know most have my work has been done basically pro bono. Folks on the whole don't care about fancy descriptors, a lot of folks I've done work for just want basic equipment, which you can't charge much of anything for. Embrasures, on the other hand, for anyone who buys the SoA paragon but doesn't want to shell out for the actual rondel, are going to be a recurring demand that you can actually charge something for.
I'm halfway through virtuoso, and it's still millions (2-3mil). I've been working on highest grade descriptors though, to make the trek to Legendary easier. But since I'm only virtuoso, I can't do anything but make pries, and those are going to go for what.. 2-3cr? Since a pryall is 10cr? Again, not worth the return in the long run. And once the initial rush dies down, embrasures will be fairly cheap too, as it's only 25 steel and 12 cloth, as @Lucianus pointed out, and us smiths will be driving each other down to get business. Unless we all want to collaborate and agree on a set price for embrasures, which I'm 100% down with.
The cost of an embrasure is, as I posted earlier, double the base commodity cost of that armour type (unless it's been changed since this morning). In some cases that's less than 25 steel and 12 cloth In other cases (notably fullplate) it's considerably more.
I'm sure it sucks that non-decay armour is going to eat into all that profit you definitely weren't making on Armoursmithing, though.
This would actually be an interesting chance for smiths to work together to set prices. Seems like it'd be pretty doable, with the small number of people.
Not that I think it'll happen, of course. "Free (or exceedingly cheap) to city mates" is basically the mantra of the entire achaean economy.
This would actually be an interesting chance for smiths to work together to set prices. Seems like it'd be pretty doable, with the small number of people.
Not that I think it'll happen, of course. "Free (or exceedingly cheap) to city mates" is basically the mantra of the entire achaean economy.
I will neither confirm or deny that there have been conversations
Resist numbers: these are always a bit variable because of how defences interact with each other. But:
Cutting/blunt: approximately 5%.
Magic/elementals: approximately 7%.
To allay concerns with balance, these numbers were factored in when we standardised armour stats in the event we'd want to add artefact armour down the line.
Druid SoA:
The note about that was back from the early 2000s, when defence stacking to insane caps was possible. There's not really a compelling reason any class should be denied SoA's rng effect when runewarden can be walking around with one. As I think Antonius mentioned, it doesn't convey the + cutting/blunt bonus.
Gating behind credits:
We actually have plans for temporary paragons in a PVE system down the line.
There's not really a compelling reason any class should be denied SoA's rng effect when runewarden can be walking around with one.
Does this mean you'll reconsider what type of shield a SoA is treated as for sword and shield spec? If I can get the absorption effect on armour anyway then the only difference is the stats between a buckler and the Shield of Absorption, which I feel should be worth the 800 credits that it costs. (I'm classleading it either way, just feel that I have a much stronger case now!)
Also, just want to state that it seemed pretty unfair to accuse you guys of some dastardly scheme by not supplying the numbers, even though nobody (at least in this thread that I saw) had even bothered to ask for them.
I'm open to talking about the SoA shield class being reevaluated, probably need to look at the distribution there to make some of the other shield types more attractive anyway.
@Exelethril All customisations will go through the normal process of oversight.
Customisations need to go all around.. kind of makes descriptors.. well pointless. who is going to pay for comms needed to make a nice suit of armour when they can jus add another 50 creds to have it look better than anything in game so far? I feel bad for whomever you had create all of those descriptors for the initial system setup
Wasn't exactly hard to predict that basically nobody except the people actually levelling armour and weapon smithing would give a damn about descriptors, though. Nobody was paying for the comms to make a "nice" suit of armour when they couldn't just add another 50 credits to have it look better than anything forged, so this really isn't going to change anything.
Just point out how the damage classes have once again taken a nerf, but nothing is being addressed with the efficiency, speed and deadliness of afflicting.. can there be a paragorn to make afflictions or venoms have a 5% chance of not working or something.... no one honestly dies to damage now a days anyways, its either an insta-kill or venomlock.
Wasn't exactly hard to predict that basically nobody except the people actually levelling armour and weapon smithing would give a damn about descriptors, though. Nobody was paying for the comms to make a "nice" suit of armour when they couldn't just add another 50 credits to have it look better than anything forged, so this really isn't going to change anything.
Yeah, true.. but with these cool Armour changes.. now the legit ONLY purpose of an armour smith is to make the initial piece of armour.. and then spend about 10-20Million gold on comms to get legend smith. for a one time Embrasure, and then... back to being worthless
Going to be worse now, because eventually everyone is going to have non decay armour atleast before they would run out every 60 months.
I feel like a lot of people will be dissuaded by the 350 credit price tag, especially given that it doesn't even make their armor more effective.
Really though, I feel that the price of modifiers was a bigger factor then anything else. Very few people cared about before we got artie armor, and it was hard to when some of the modifiers that added the most personality (like color) had the potential to be very expensive for something that was going to decay in a few months anyways.
I feel like a lot of people will be dissuaded by the 350 credit price tag, especially given that it doesn't even make their armor more effective.
Really though, I feel that the price of modifiers was a bigger factor then anything else. Very few people cared about before we got artie armor, and it was hard to when some of the modifiers that added the most personality (like color) had the potential to be very expensive for something that was going to decay in a few months anyways.
I think I'm on to my third set of white fullplate which I know has cost Garis a fortune, but for RP reasons (the little bit of RP that I really do) it makes sense to be a little silly with gold where that's concerned.
He is a coward who has to bring two friends as backup to jump people hunting.
I feel like a lot of people will be dissuaded by the 350 credit price tag, especially given that it doesn't even make their armor more effective.
Really though, I feel that the price of modifiers was a bigger factor then anything else. Very few people cared about before we got artie armor, and it was hard to when some of the modifiers that added the most personality (like color) had the potential to be very expensive for something that was going to decay in a few months anyways.
I think I'm on to my third set of white fullplate which I know has cost Garis a fortune, but for RP reasons (the little bit of RP that I really do) it makes sense to be a little silly with gold where that's concerned.
You're Tommy from the Mighty Morphin' Power Rangers?
I feel like a lot of people will be dissuaded by the 350 credit price tag, especially given that it doesn't even make their armor more effective.
Really though, I feel that the price of modifiers was a bigger factor then anything else. Very few people cared about before we got artie armor, and it was hard to when some of the modifiers that added the most personality (like color) had the potential to be very expensive for something that was going to decay in a few months anyways.
I think I'm on to my third set of white fullplate which I know has cost Garis a fortune, but for RP reasons (the little bit of RP that I really do) it makes sense to be a little silly with gold where that's concerned.
You're Tommy from the Mighty Morphin' Power Rangers?
GDI Aesi!!
He is a coward who has to bring two friends as backup to jump people hunting.
Just point out how the damage classes have once again taken a nerf, but nothing is being addressed with the efficiency, speed and deadliness of afflicting.. can there be a paragorn to make afflictions or venoms have a 5% chance of not working or something.... no one honestly dies to damage now a days anyways, its either an insta-kill or venomlock.
If you're ignoring a large section of the game's playerbase, then sure, "no one" dies to damage nowadays. You also have to consider that damage classes have essentially been enjoying an 18 month long buff, since the standardised armour stats were generally worse than the top tier armour people were using under the old forging system. That's now been reversed only for the small percentage of the playerbase who are willing - and able - to spend a minimum of 1350 credits on artefact armour.
There's not really a compelling reason any class should be denied SoA's rng effect when runewarden can be walking around with one.
Does this mean you'll reconsider what type of shield a SoA is treated as for sword and shield spec? If I can get the absorption effect on armour anyway then the only difference is the stats between a buckler and the Shield of Absorption, which I feel should be worth the 800 credits that it costs. (I'm classleading it either way, just feel that I have a much stronger case now!)
Would also use SoA tower shield for dragonform purposes. Also Grove staves becoming 1h like Magi ones to open up general SoA usage.
Pretty sure both of those are somewhere on the far side of "not gonna happen" though.
- (Eleusis): Ellodin says, "The Fissure of Echoes is Sarathai's happy place." - With sharp, crackling tones, Kyrra tells you, "The ladies must love you immensely." - (Eleusian Ranger Techs): Savira says, "Most of the hard stuff seem to have this built in code like: If adventurer_hitting_me = "Sarathai" then send("terminate and selfdestruct")." - Makarios says, "Serve well and perish." - Xaden says, "Xaden confirmed scrub 2017."
The cost of an embrasure is, as I posted earlier, double the base commodity cost of that armour type (unless it's been changed since this morning). In some cases that's less than 25 steel and 12 cloth In other cases (notably fullplate) it's considerably more.
I'm sure it sucks that non-decay armour is going to eat into all that profit you definitely weren't making on Armoursmithing, though.
Sass noted. The issue isn't that it's going to make it so I can't get rich off armoursmithing (everyone knew that wasn't possible before). The issue is now armoursmiths are practically useless, as noted by Prof here.
Yeah, true.. but with these cool Armour changes.. now the legit ONLY purpose of an armour smith is to make the initial piece of armour.. and then spend about 10-20Million gold on comms to get legend smith. for a one time Embrasure, and then... back to being worthless
Going to be worse now, because eventually everyone is going to have non decay armour atleast before they would run out every 60 months.
The cost of an embrasure is, as I posted earlier, double the base commodity cost of that armour type (unless it's been changed since this morning). In some cases that's less than 25 steel and 12 cloth In other cases (notably fullplate) it's considerably more.
I'm sure it sucks that non-decay armour is going to eat into all that profit you definitely weren't making on Armoursmithing, though.
Sass noted. The issue isn't that it's going to make it so I can't get rich off armoursmithing (everyone knew that wasn't possible before). The issue is now armoursmiths are practically useless, as noted by Prof here.
Yeah, true.. but with these cool Armour changes.. now the legit ONLY purpose of an armour smith is to make the initial piece of armour.. and then spend about 10-20Million gold on comms to get legend smith. for a one time Embrasure, and then... back to being worthless
Going to be worse now, because eventually everyone is going to have non decay armour atleast before they would run out every 60 months.
You could say the exact same thing about artefact weapons.
Are weaponsmiths still in business? Yes. Yes they are.
@Omor You're both acting like everybody is going to go out and buy non-decay armour for 350 credits, which simply isn't going to happen. For a start, most people don't have the credits. Some of them won't ever have the credits. Most of those who do have the credits at some point will have other things they'll spend them on instead. All of those people are still going to require armour every 60 RL days.
Your ability to get rich - or even make any profit - isn't really any worse than it was yesterday, especially since you could likely make more from embrasures than you ever would from any one person buying cheap forged armour from you specifically during the course of playing.
Comments
And once the initial rush dies down, embrasures will be fairly cheap too, as it's only 25 steel and 12 cloth, as @Lucianus pointed out, and us smiths will be driving each other down to get business.
Unless we all want to collaborate and agree on a set price for embrasures, which I'm 100% down with.
got gud
I'm sure it sucks that non-decay armour is going to eat into all that profit you definitely weren't making on Armoursmithing, though.
Results of disembowel testing | Knight limb counter | GMCP AB files
Not that I think it'll happen, of course. "Free (or exceedingly cheap) to city mates" is basically the mantra of the entire achaean economy.
Sorry about the delay, I didn't have the numbers until just now.
If you notice any paragons are giving significantly different reductions to the % listed in the above HELP, please file a bug.
Ok, let's see.
Resist numbers: these are always a bit variable because of how defences interact with each other. But:
Cutting/blunt: approximately 5%.
Magic/elementals: approximately 7%.
To allay concerns with balance, these numbers were factored in when we standardised armour stats in the event we'd want to add artefact armour down the line.
Druid SoA:
The note about that was back from the early 2000s, when defence stacking to insane caps was possible. There's not really a compelling reason any class should be denied SoA's rng effect when runewarden can be walking around with one. As I think Antonius mentioned, it doesn't convey the + cutting/blunt bonus.
Gating behind credits:
We actually have plans for temporary paragons in a PVE system down the line.
I am thinking of buying a blunt, cutting and poison leather one for Monk
Also, just want to state that it seemed pretty unfair to accuse you guys of some dastardly scheme by not supplying the numbers, even though nobody (at least in this thread that I saw) had even bothered to ask for them.
Results of disembowel testing | Knight limb counter | GMCP AB files
Customisations need to go all around.. kind of makes descriptors.. well pointless. who is going to pay for comms needed to make a nice suit of armour when they can jus add another 50 creds to have it look better than anything in game so far? I feel bad for whomever you had create all of those descriptors for the initial system setup
Results of disembowel testing | Knight limb counter | GMCP AB files
Just point out how the damage classes have once again taken a nerf, but nothing is being addressed with the efficiency, speed and deadliness of afflicting.. can there be a paragorn to make afflictions or venoms have a 5% chance of not working or something.... no one honestly dies to damage now a days anyways, its either an insta-kill or venomlock.
Really though, I feel that the price of modifiers was a bigger factor then anything else. Very few people cared about before we got artie armor, and it was hard to when some of the modifiers that added the most personality (like color) had the potential to be very expensive for something that was going to decay in a few months anyways.
Results of disembowel testing | Knight limb counter | GMCP AB files
Pretty sure both of those are somewhere on the far side of "not gonna happen" though.
- With sharp, crackling tones, Kyrra tells you, "The ladies must love you immensely."
- (Eleusian Ranger Techs): Savira says, "Most of the hard stuff seem to have this built in code like: If adventurer_hitting_me = "Sarathai" then send("terminate and selfdestruct")."
- Makarios says, "Serve well and perish."
- Xaden says, "Xaden confirmed scrub 2017."
Penwize has cowardly forfeited the challenge to mortal combat issued by Atalkez.
Sass noted. The issue isn't that it's going to make it so I can't get rich off armoursmithing (everyone knew that wasn't possible before). The issue is now armoursmiths are practically useless, as noted by Prof here.
got gud
Are weaponsmiths still in business? Yes. Yes they are.
@Omor You're both acting like everybody is going to go out and buy non-decay armour for 350 credits, which simply isn't going to happen. For a start, most people don't have the credits. Some of them won't ever have the credits. Most of those who do have the credits at some point will have other things they'll spend them on instead. All of those people are still going to require armour every 60 RL days.
Your ability to get rich - or even make any profit - isn't really any worse than it was yesterday, especially since you could likely make more from embrasures than you ever would from any one person buying cheap forged armour from you specifically during the course of playing.
Results of disembowel testing | Knight limb counter | GMCP AB files