City Channel Standards

Quisse

It's more than a little weird to criticize someone who is offering help to novices over the city channel. Regardless of motive, there's really nothing harmful in this sort of thing, and citizens being snide and sarcastic to someone trying to help seems like a poor reflection on the city itself, particularly to novices and new citizens. @Dortheron You do you, buddy. 

Klendathu

The thing that bugs me is the automated triggered responses to "Person has escaped the pygmy dungeon" or the other newbies quests. Instantly there's two or three people who say "Good job, welcome to Ashtan, hurrah you did it". EVERY BLOODY TIME. If you want to congratulate them, put some effort in.

Shirszae

While I detest those sort of triggers, there's no much variation you can go for. I sort of dislike the whole announce thing. Wish they had gone for a somewhat more subtle way.

Valkyn

I have to laugh at the ones who make a massive deal over it when it happens twice a day.  I welcome them on joining the city if I'm paying attention, and say 'well done' or 'good job' if they finish the great rock quest, but not 'CONGRATS!!!' I have to wonder what the novices who get that sort of reception think when they see another novice get it for exactly the same thing half an hour later. :chuffed: 

Elipise

I loved it when I first joined, it was encouraging to have someone welcome Eli to the city. Eli belonged from the moment she entered. I wanted to make certain that everyone else felt that way too!

But then Targossas received an insane amount of novices joining and then suiciding 10 seconds later every day. Since @Halos (I think) mentioned it on the forums, it seems to have stopped, but not before I burnt out on being enthusiastic about each and every person joining Targossas.

I am starting to ease back into the welcoming since the fake novices have stopped, though.

Zamora

3316h 3142m 99%e 100%w XX|EE C M 

(Mhaldor): You say, "Does anyone know how much a squirrel monkey would currently fetch on Market?"

3316h 3142m 99%e 100%w XX|EE C M 

Proficy tells you, "This is not the channel to ask."

Really? and people wonder why Mhaldor CT is so quiet.

Melodie

Generally CT is for security things, formal addresses, or Sartan telling us to get off our ass and kill something.

MCI is the usual place for less formal chatter. 

I can't say I've heard of anyone wondering why our CT is quiet ever, I figured at this point that's just an understood given. But you're definitely still able to ask!

Edit: Just to add, I don't personally have an issue with CT being used to ask a question, but most of the oldies (this includes Proficy) will probably tell you the same thing. I'm mostly confused at the "no wonder Mhaldor CT is so quiet" bit, I figured you'd know that. Kiet's suggestion of House channels is a good one too.

Kiet

You can also ask that kind of stuff over HT much easier, since HT is generally chattier.

That said I don't personally mind someone asking something like that on CT, it's just unlikely to go answered there.

Zamora

Thanks for the reply, sorry if it came over a little harsh. My house was empty when I asked the question initially, but will make use of the clan a lot more then

Kiet

Well you were on at like 10 am american time on a sunday morning  

Ysela

I for one was slightly disappointed when I realised that the "silence slave"-treatment I had read about was no longer doled out in Mhaldor. There is of course a fine balance to walk, but I think the more oppressive the atmosphere is, the better the advancement out of slavery feels.

Don't make Mhaldor CT chattier, please.

Medi

@Ysela iirc that directive was given by Sartan, so like.. I mean.. he's not even around >_> We might as well do it anyway?

Shimi

I made an alt at one point in Ashtan, and I have to say the most helpful person was @Dortheron. He checked in on me quite a few times, gave me good advice and generally tried to joke with me and make me feel welcome. Otherwise I think the entirety of my interactions were pretty much through my hnt. Ashtan felt very silent and almost empty even knowing there were people there.

Magenta

Personally, I've had some good and bad experiences with politicking on the city channel. Nowadays, with Targossas or Mhaldor being sheer theocracies with leaders being hand-picked by the patrons, this is hardly an issue there, I'd assume. That way, our two cities probably have the smallest amount of trouble with these things, seeing how our matrons and patrons are constantly there, keeping a keen eye on the city's mission and whatnot.

From past experiences with democratic city-states, I can't say that the same applies to the other four. I've seen long-standing citizens getting kicked out of a city-state simply for disagreeing publically with the council's decisions or a council member's attitude. Came pretty close to RP-griefing in my eyes. Seeing how politics play a major rule in the four non-theocratically-ruled states (I'm not saying they are not dominated by their matrons/patrons, but technically, their leaders are elected), I would also assume that whatever you say publically has its consequences.

Like @Quisse already mentioned, it seems weird at first to punish somebody for helping a newbie. Especially when you do it in a fairly unobtrusive manner like @Dortheron describes. On the other hand, I think Mhaldor's approach is an attempt at proper roleplaying for the hub of Evil where you have to earn the right to speak to the distinguished citizens. I'm sure there are enough Mhaldorians who are helpful and offer advice and suggestions to people who are willing to make an effort. If not, that would be pretty sad.

The thing with city channels is that you need to have something to discuss there. The umpteenth raid defense or shrine skirmish gets boring after a while, and if you have a phase of general low activity, people don't feel compelled to add much to a non-existant discussion. But IIRC, we've been promised some world-spanning events! That will give us plenty to discuss, plenty of opportunities to coordinate our efforts there.

Aktillum

@Skarash nailed it on the first page of this thread.

Just want to add my two cents here. Ashtan CT in the early days was as bad as some of the worst OOC clans, it was definitely a reflection of the much looser RP rules of Achaea in general. Rap battles, OOC pop culture, faked mudsex mistells, etc all used to happen on Ashtan CT around 13 - 15 years ago. Achaea became much more RP-enforced over the years and that stuff disappeared for the most part, but like Skarash said, for some reason people got it in their head in recent times that a quiet CT is a good CT. A backlash against the old days, maybe?

I think because the fear is that once CT becomes vibrant and talkative, inevitably, somebody is going to say something stupid and OOC. And when that happens, being a "hall monitor" really sucks, especially in Ashtan, because if you city-mute someone all of a sudden you're a huge asshole. I obviously haven't been Ashtani in a few years but that's what I remember from my short Archon run.

I'm all for talkative CT channels that foster fun and community like @Sarapis said, it's up to the city leaders to step in and say "enough" when things get out of hand.

Skarash

just to clarify a few things- @Dortheron isn't being punished for trying to help anyone. Rather it was one individual's personal annoyance.  And yes Aktillum is correct, the very early days of Ashtan's ct would be, by today's standards, horrific. However that was every channel in those early days where RP wasn't really enforced - or even practiced.  Things have improved tremendously now that we have tools that are well-suited to city channel regulation. As a vignette I remember once having to uncitizen someone who would not pay attention to any warnings about ct useage. The backlash from that was a pain to deal with as well, additionally I hardly think loss of citizenship was an appropriate punishment to misuse of the city-channel so you'd have to be a serial abuser. So having the mute ability certainly helps.

Also it really sucks having to play hall monitor - there's going to be that inevitable idiot that will insist in pushing the boundaries.  although I specifically included in Ashtan's policies that channel abuse can lead to loss of citizenship and enemy status.

Dortheron

Skarash said:

just to clarify a few things- @Dortheron isn't being punished for trying to help anyone. Rather it was one individual's personal annoyance.

It's true that I wasn't directly punished, but when you get snide comments when someone is asking a question out of good intent, it's off putting. It makes me want to stop trying to engage with the other citizens on ct because I get the feeling of "Why use ct and put up with this?". I can do things better or differently, and I try regardless because my desire to help is stronger than my annoyance with people who make me feel this way, but it's a punishment when this happens and rather than calling someone out on this rude behavior and encouraging my attempt at a helpful attitude (however bad it is), the majority of the city and/or leadership stays silent on the matter. Just because I never received an official punishment doesn't mean I wasn't punished by omission.

The only balm is the appreciation I get from those who've expressed gratitude and cheered me on in game and on the forums.


Back to Topic:
I think the biggest hurdle to Ashtan right now is the culture shift. Before Ashtan had the identity of "Do what you want, just don't be annoying, an idiot, or a traitor" which fit with the perception of "City of Freedom". But now that Ashtan is "The Seat of Chaos" there isn't as clear of identity for citizens to follow. This is especially bad for people who aren't an active member of any ring of socialization because they end up getting left out.

What is there to do if you're new and not working on house requirements? Raiding/dueling isn't an option (genuine new players don't have the skills, credits, or knowledge to jump into combat unless that's what they know they want to do). Sailing and ships are very expensive and hard to accomplish if they even know about them, so that's not an option. And role play takes other people to participate and you can't easily do it on your own especially if you don't know how it works and how to play it out in Ashtan because your new. So what do they do? They go hunting. They spend a lot of time reading. They stay silent because there's no reason or no one they feel the need to talk to. They do all sorts of activities that you don't need a city to do, and eventually come to ask themselves why they're in Ashtan to begin with since they can do all of this and more in Cyrene, Hashan, or any of the others.

Lack of communication on ct for Ashtan I feel is either a result of this or a manifestation of it. Talking on ct is a good start and should definitely be pursued, but until there is a greater trend established between citizens for a greater cooperation and interaction for reasons outside of requirements or learning the basics, ct is going to remain as lifeless, stale, and silent as it has become.

I've had people tell me in private that I've been the biggest influence in their time in Ashtan (current or recently) because it seemed like I was the only one who cared, helped them, or tried to interact with them, whether it was ct, tells, or in person. This could just be the unlucky few that I've found and no doubt others have done just fine without me (looking at you @Piera), but the fact that it's been more than one person who've expressed this to me is really concerning to me. And more so because it hasn't always been newbies telling me this.

 

tl;dr I appreciate the , Ashtan needs to express it brand of rp better.

Kresslack

The only thing that's ever bothered me over CT is when people try to emote. Other than that, it's a channel to reach other citizens and especially a good venue for discussion overall. I think there's the stigma that CT is to be mainly used for city related announcements, such as raids, etc and that, because of the importance placed on relaying that information it should be kept clear of 'chatter'. With the introduction of the City Warefare system and the Army Channel, that's an outdated notion, and people not wanting to participate in the city channel discussion can now opt to turn off CT and still get relevant attack information. That is a much better system than previously, where many cities forbade citizens from turning off CT for the very reason of being aware of raids.