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Seafaring PVE

Nylian
Nylian Member Posts: 125 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
Some sort of seafaring PVE content.  There seems to be a lot of untapped potential outside of what you're currently able to do at sea.  I mean something you actually do from the boat.  There could be a load of artefacts or other options to fit out a ship with this idea specifically in mind.

Diving is okay, but it's the same as PVE on land with different surroundings.  Find a thing, mash your bash alias, etc.
Trade routes are cool and all, but ultra boring
Fishing is fantastic when you want to chill with your buddies

I'm sure as a group we could think of some awesome things, but here are a few ideas I have:

  • Treasure hunting - Maps you buy and have to decipher using your wits, then dive to that specific spot and find something neato, or find it on an island.
  • Whaling - My personal favorite. Lots of options here. Could even require a group, and also make it so larger ships are more effective, but require smaller ones to "tackle" the whale.  Whale yields gathering comms, or rareminerals, or something making it worthwhile to do and invest in.
  • Sea Monster Hunting - Like whaling but PETA friendly
  • Sea races that fire at a specified interval, make it require a gold entry fee, winnings based on number of entrants, but still overall a gold sink.

Trying to think of different things that have an ROI for IRE but would still be super fun at sea.



LithorinGamdenAereidhnaSkye
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Comments

  • Lithorin
    Lithorin Member Posts: 29
    all great ideas. though we do have shipraces already. Whaling is my personal favorite as well!
  • Lithorin
    Lithorin Member Posts: 29
    that and treasure hunting. 
  • Kresslack
    Kresslack Florida, United StatesMember Posts: 6,617 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    These have all already been suggested a few times over, and as far as I know, some of them are already on 'The List'.


  • Watchman
    Watchman Member Posts: 75
    I could have sworn @Tecton had talked about doing something with this, as part of the further seafaring changes/revamps. 
  • Blujixapug
    Blujixapug Member Posts: 1,833 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    TRASHAR HANTANG YASS
    image
  • Anaria
    Anaria Member Posts: 184 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited December 2015
    I like most of these ideas, particularly treasure maps...

    But I wish people would stop asking for sea monsters. This is one of those things players THINK they want until they actually get it. Imagine how annoying sea monsters are going to get when you just want to go fishing, or do a trade deal, or go visit Zanzibaar for a nice dachary. It'll be scary the first time, exciting the second, fun the third, and forever after you'll be in a state of annoyance and frustration every time they show up. The only time I've been sunk at sea was the last time they were playing around with adding sea monsters to the game... one spawned right next to my ship. Trust me, getting sunk in under ten seconds by a mob is not as much fun as you think.
    Valkyn
  • Valkyn
    Valkyn Member Posts: 734 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    I agree with Anaria... while being able to go out to hunt sea monsters is really fun, and encountering them when they're rare can be too, it would be a real nuisance to lose trade goods or have fishing disrupted when you're out alone and just looking to make some cash. Sailing stuff does not make enough gold for added risk.

  • Kresslack
    Kresslack Florida, United StatesMember Posts: 6,617 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    So long as they're not super common, I think it would be great to have a pre-configured chance of running into sea creatures, especially certain ones in specific regions of the sea. Seafaring is supposed to have that underlying element of danger and unexpected risk to it. Gets rather boring otherwise.


  • Shirszae
    Shirszae Santo DomingoMember Posts: 3,521 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Yeah, well, the problem is Seafaring is quite boring as it is right now, unless you happen to catch a ship or something. I am all for seamonsters and such, so long as they are not super-duper common (but there is still a decent chance to encounter them)

    And you won't understand the cause of your grief...


    ...But you'll always follow the voices beneath.

  • Valkyn
    Valkyn Member Posts: 734 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Risk is fine... but losing trade goods is expensive, and many sea monsters are almost impossible to kill single-handedly. If the sea gets riskier, the payout needs to get better.

    Alarke
  • Lithorin
    Lithorin Member Posts: 29
    edited December 2015
    personally as far as seamonsters go, I think hunting them should be toggleable like rats. unless they plan to add whaling. there are whales. if they add whaling then seamonsters would be a great way to scare the pants off autofishers
  • Nylian
    Nylian Member Posts: 125 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Most people seem to be assuming that sea monsters will be agro, maybe because they have in the past or something?  Just make them passive and it's not a problem (until you start fighting them!).

    I do agree though, sea monsters or whales should be a thing you choose to do, not something you're forced to deal with.
  • Jarrod
    Jarrod Member, Seafaring Liason, Secret Squirrel Posts: 3,060 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    The solution to random sea monsters vs fishing is to actually have Seafaring points on someone and shield.
    image
    Cascades of quicksilver light streak across the firmament as the celestial voice of Ourania intones, "Oh Jarrod..."

  • Blujixapug
    Blujixapug Member Posts: 1,833 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Anaria said:
    I like most of these ideas, particularly treasure maps...

    But I wish people would stop asking for sea monsters. This is one of those things players THINK they want until they actually get it. Imagine how annoying sea monsters are going to get when you just want to go fishing, or do a trade deal, or go visit Zanzibaar for a nice dachary. It'll be scary the first time, exciting the second, fun the third, and forever after you'll be in a state of annoyance and frustration every time they show up. The only time I've been sunk at sea was the last time they were playing around with adding sea monsters to the game... one spawned right next to my ship. Trust me, getting sunk in under ten seconds by a mob is not as much fun as you think.
    daiquiri*

    Everyone but fishers can sail away from them if they don't want to engage, and deepsea fishing badly needs something to keep people honest.

    I doubt they'll be set up to sink you in 10 seconds.
    image
  • Anaria
    Anaria Member Posts: 184 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    If it is something you toggle, like ratting, that's 100% fine with me. Unless people start doing it around other ships to try to get an aggro sea monster to sink someone for them anonymously. :)
  • Kresslack
    Kresslack Florida, United StatesMember Posts: 6,617 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Passive sea monsters? If you want risk free fishing, stick to the rivers and lakes on mainland. Or you could try either sailing with a crew or hiring one of the few groups that is skilled and experienced in sea combat enough to offer protection or escort. That's a win all around, as I see it. Ideas regarding seafaring should be about promoting actual seafaring and both cooperation and conflict on the seas. Not easy-mode pure-profit fishing without risk.


    ElowinShirszae
  • Anaria
    Anaria Member Posts: 184 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Kresslack said:
    Passive sea monsters? If you want risk free fishing, stick to the rivers and lakes on mainland. Or you could try either sailing with a crew or hiring one of the few groups that is skilled and experienced in sea combat enough to offer protection or escort. That's a win all around, as I see it. Ideas regarding seafaring should be about promoting actual seafaring and both cooperation and conflict on the seas. Not easy-mode pure-profit fishing without risk.
    The risk already exists in the form of pirates and enemy factions. 

    Ships represent the single largest investment on Achaea that is not somehow credit related. Entry-level is bare bones minimum 3 million, but we are really talking more like 5-6 million for most people. That is before you even consider any of the side investments that are really pretty necessary to get any return at all from it.

    People don't drop that kind of money for no return. They are even less likely to want to spend it when the returns are so negligible and the risk is so high. Comments like "find a player crew" or "hire protection" are pretty out-of-touch. People don't do that by and large. Some do. Most do not. It's why denizen crews and swashbuckler's exist. And they are not likely going to suddenly start if you introduce yet more risk to a system that not enough people are wanting to participate in to begin with. 

    If you can make less per hour on the ocean than you can per hour doing something else less risky, with zero start-up investment, which is usually the case while also earning XP, then why sail? And why split your meager sailing income to "hire protection" from randomly spawning aggro mobs? The economics involved make the idea itself inviable. 

    Put passive seamonsters into the game and the people who want to make a career hunting them will hunt them. Put aggro monsters in, and it will eventually drive out all the people who want to do something else. You can confine them to a specific area if you like, but thats about the same as making them passive, except you'll have people trying to kite them out into open water for giggles.

    Valkyn
  • Trevize
    Trevize Member Posts: 1,517 @ - Epic Achaean
    Anaria said:
    You can confine them to a specific area if you like, but thats about the same as making them passive, except you'll have people trying to kite them out into open water for giggles.
    Upon leaving the area...

    [insert monster here] dives back under the water, leaving nothing but ripples in the water as a reminder of its presence.

    Then to avoid people abusing that, set some sort of 'ship grace' for PVE only that prevents going back/fighting more monsters for a time.

    Current scripts: GoldTracker 1.2, mData 1.1
    Site: https://github.com/trevize-achaea/scripts/releases
    Thread: http://forums.achaea.com/discussion/4064/trevizes-scripts
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    Anaria
  • Krypton
    Krypton shi-KhurenaMember Posts: 2,377 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    If it's "toggle-able," should require a special ship equipment that can be turned on/off to repel sea monsters.

    Or otherwise need figurehead power to keep sea monsters at bay (dual function for ship cloak, or a new ability).
  • Aereidhna
    Aereidhna DallasMember Posts: 682 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    edited December 2015
    I'd be down for sea monsters if they weren't rampant - I like the idea of using them to keep fishers honest because autofishing is stupid (and has gotten stupidly common), but if they're in common areas at least make it so that they're not impossible to evade.

    But you could also plant them in out of the way places or out near the edges of the map so that people who want PvE could seek them out - and there's an added bit of realism to 'these are the edges of the map because no one has gotten a big enough force to conquer the monsters to sail further' or whatever. (And then maybe there could be world events to conquer the sea monsters to discover new areas!!!11 Pretty please?)

    Seafaring PvE is the main thing that excites me about ship changes.
  • Valkyn
    Valkyn Member Posts: 734 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    "because of the large rewards they can net."

    What, if you're an auto-fisher? I make better gold hunting or questing or ... just about anything else. I only fish when I'm taking out friends or working on designs. It's not good gold at all, and diving is worse. Crown trades are nice but rare, and the new ones have flooded trades with so much crap there's very rarely ever one worth doing.

    ShirszaeAnaria
  • Kresslack
    Kresslack Florida, United StatesMember Posts: 6,617 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I make better gold hunting It's not good gold at all, and diving is worse. 
    Hunting is good gold, but not everyone likes to hunt. Speaking from experience fishing, diving, and trade runs can be very lucrative if you know what you're doing. Was able to fund multiple fleets and personal endeavors easily enough from Seafaring alone for many years. So there's obviously gold to be made for those who are willing to put in the time and effort to learn the tricks of the trade, just as there is a lot to learn generally about profitable hunting and questing.

    I will never be an advocate for making the seas a safer place. Consider the possibility that there might be more to gain in harsher environments simply because of the risk and challenge they present.


  • Valkyn
    Valkyn Member Posts: 734 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    edited December 2015
    Maybe in the past there was. There's too many people doing trades, too many who can get a friend to get the items for nothing but the goods - the trade deal items do not sell, it's a case of oversupply. Diving is almost pure luck. I'll give you some people don't like hunting, but questing is MUCH better gold than fishing.

    Yes you can make a lot of gold seafaring, but you can also make it without it fairly easily just as well or better without the gold investment required for a ship.

    I like the idea of sea monsters that aren't too bad until you attack them. Getting rid of auto-fishers would be great. Maybe then fishing could be a bit more profitable again.

  • Kresslack
    Kresslack Florida, United StatesMember Posts: 6,617 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Great thing about organizations is they usually have a bunch of ships just sitting around. While it's a personal goal now, I've never actually owned a ship. Neither has Kinilan, to the best of my knowledge. There's never been an actual need to.

    Most cities have more ships than they can put to use, and most of them are made available for citizen use. So the cost investment for a ship has been a relatively weak argument for years. The only thing usually ever required to use an org ship is competence and responsibility.

    Either way, I hope the seas stir to life once more. The last two times they did in a major way were completely fun and involved the Kashari and two major triton city states.


  • Skye
    Skye The Duchess BellatereMember, Seafaring Liason Posts: 3,171 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Actually the last time they did, it involved one triton city state and a whole lotta zombies. >_>

    But yes, moar seafaring events. Hail Neroes.

    I very much wants more seafaring PVE which you can use to help give your crew experience.

    I also once suggested turning forceboarding into a mine-invasion type thing by use of swashbucklers. Instead of Swashies being an instant-hire murder-machine guard type deal, you took them to certain 'mission points' where you could deploy them (or participate) and they would gain experience. PVE sea quests could be just the thing: For instance, Tasur'ke Harbour no longer gives out just trade deals but also missions to 'get rid of the giant jellyfish spawning over the Cnidian Gates' or to 'hunt down pirate ships in the Sea of Screamed Prayers', that sort of thing.

    These are quite specific area things that most fishers can avoid so long as they know what missions there are for the month.

    That said, random monster spawns are also nice, the sea was always meant to be a dangerous place and the world (and its events) kinda don't stop for anyone. Except during CTF when all the bashing areas were left unoccupied cause everyone was busy killing everyone else. (Every day should be CTF day)


    Aereidhna
  • Valkyn
    Valkyn Member Posts: 734 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    I don't think anyone is arguing the sea shouldn't be a dangerous place... just that it's not worth risking said danger with the current payouts.

  • Sarathai
    Sarathai Member Posts: 2,139 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited December 2015
    Skye said:
    Actually the last time they did, it involved one triton city state and a whole lotta zombies. >_>
    That was fun. We should do that again.

    (Dying to the tidal wave was hilarious.)
    - (Eleusis): Ellodin says, "The Fissure of Echoes is Sarathai's happy place."
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    YaeShirszaeAereidhna
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