Welcome to the Achaea Forums! Please be sure to read the Forum Rules.

Announce 4368: Puppet/Vodun Mangle

2456

Comments

  • AmranuAmranu Posts: 725Member ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Soulrend doesn't work with swiftcurse anymore, that was a fairly large change from the last classleads still in effect.

    Slow curse or blight though, yes.
  • AntoniusAntonius Posts: 4,519Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Regular curses are about 2 seconds, right? What's the balance time on fashion? I can't see why you'd ever actually fashion if you can just curse manaleech/soulrend for a guaranteed 3 fashions.
    Dunn
  • DunnDunn The great Buffalo tundraPosts: 5,955Member, Secret Squirrel @@ - Legendary Achaean
    That's where I was going with that.


  • AmranuAmranu Posts: 725Member ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Yeah, fashion is kinda redundant now.
    Shaman prep is about as fast as Monk/Blademaster now.
  • DochithaDochitha Posts: 1,283Member @ - Epic Achaean
    Can't say fashion is redundant, it is still required to not mandate attunement to Maligus or anyone not having access to Maligus yet.

    But yeah for anyone tri-trans, fashion is redundant, so is Truefashion.
  • AustereAustere TennesseePosts: 2,191Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Amranu said:
    Yeah, fashion is kinda redundant now.
    Shaman prep is about as fast as Monk/Blademaster now.
    So monk/bm have to hit every limb every three minutes or it resets.  How long does fashion, which you don't need to do against multiple body targets, last? Seems a bit lopsided there. 
  • DunnDunn The great Buffalo tundraPosts: 5,955Member, Secret Squirrel @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Six minutes. Limbs are three. I made that mistake once.


    Austere
  • XinnaXinna Posts: 691Member ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean

    Yeah. Super easy mode now. Though, I never liked the fashion mechanic anyway, so whatever. Might be more fun.

    Shaman fashions should definitely decay faster, though.

    AustereMelodieKenway
  • DunnDunn The great Buffalo tundraPosts: 5,955Member, Secret Squirrel @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited July 2015
    I'd be a fan of removing soulrend from being comboable with curses to encourage stacking into burst fashioning rather than fat fingering a single alias until you can execute.

    Then blight would also be incentivized.


    Austere
  • AmranuAmranu Posts: 725Member ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    edited July 2015
    This is already the case? Blight is already more than incentivized with the recent change, but it may in the end actually neuter blight. Oh I see what you're saying, but no that would not work. One of the main reasons for this change as far as I'm aware was to make soulrend usable against those that refused to let Shaman build momentum to use it. Your change would be a step back in that respect. Blight won't be an option. Trigger blight to smoke valarian problem solved.
  • DunnDunn The great Buffalo tundraPosts: 5,955Member, Secret Squirrel @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Then stack herbs like every other aff class, lol. You know how fast you swiftcurse? I think being able to mindlessly curse &tar manaleech invoke soulrend is stupid.


    Austere
  • AmranuAmranu Posts: 725Member ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    What? No, it would still be unusuable against anyone that walked away after 3 curses, like many many people already do
  • DunnDunn The great Buffalo tundraPosts: 5,955Member, Secret Squirrel @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited July 2015
    You're still glossing over the point that being able to have a static alias doing curse manaleech soulrend is stupid. I'm just spitballing ideas here.

    Could have shield stop spiritlore invokes.


  • AmranuAmranu Posts: 725Member ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Fair enough. I mean, it's not the most exciting mechanic out there, but short of Shaman receiving a way to build momentum against people willing to run the moment their mana drains, we're going to have to live with this.
  • DochithaDochitha Posts: 1,283Member @ - Epic Achaean
    Let's not forget the change also solves the fact that soulrend now works on people artied to the teeth with high mana pools, as bleed / Teraile is entirely flat based.
  • MizikMizik Posts: 2,072Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Fashion             Fashion vodun dolls from rope and cloth.
    Truefashion         The hallmark of a master of Vodun.

    ?

    And lol @Dochitha 'solves'. It sure does.
    image
  • MakariosMakarios Posts: 1,739Administrator Achaean staff
    Oh, hmm. Spiritlore invokes should already be hitting shield. If they're not, that's a bug. Will look into it!
  • AtalkezAtalkez Posts: 4,699Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited July 2015
    You can't balance the class on people running. That's literally an issue faced by every class. Some have better ways to manage it, but they all have ways.

    Shaman decay needs to be looked at, possibly halved to 3 minutes just like limb prep. Shaman can run for 3 minutes and lose nothing atm versus limb prep.


    You hug Aurora compassionately.
  • AmranuAmranu Posts: 725Member ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    In regards to managing people running Atalkez, Shaman has none outside of mangle, perhaps arguably bind. Because of this, and Maligus now being the preferred method for Shaman to gain prep, anyone was completely able to avoid prep from Maligus by leaving before their mana reached appropriate levels. I've heard the argument that Shaman hinders with paralysis, but due to the nature of curses there are always windows between curses where you will not have paralysis to run. The only other one we have is dizziness, but it does not proc nearly as often as any other hinder and is easily cured by focus or eating goldenseal. Furthermore the Shaman is not able to maintain dizziness while using Maligus for fashions anyhow, giving the loss of momentum inherent in the abiltiy. This was a good change to make Shaman's increased fashion gain more consistent.

    As for the mangle change, it may or may not need tweaking in the future, as Shaman's potential use of mangle feels limited, mostly owing to their inability to maintain any momentum from the use of it (compared of course with say, Bard which does so balanceless while maintaining momentum in order to prevent someone from running). The tradeoff here is of course Shaman has much easier access to additional legdamage on command, so maintaining momentum may not be necessary. Right now I think Shaman kill reliability might be a bit low, but I honestly don't know if that's actually the case or I'm just biased because previously I had very consistent kills. Need more time to see, will bring it up at next classleads if it continues to be a problem.
  • CooperCooper IowaPosts: 4,447Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    If you can't think of a way to hinder people trying to run from you as a Shaman you might want to re-think your class. Shaman has EXTREMELY powerful chase, and access to more in-room hindering than the majority of classes.

    Xinna
  • DunnDunn The great Buffalo tundraPosts: 5,955Member, Secret Squirrel @@ - Legendary Achaean
    It's okay cause it's all gonna hit shield now.


  • AmranuAmranu Posts: 725Member ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Extremely powerful chase, completely disagree Cooper sorry.
  • JinsunJinsun TN, USAPosts: 2,847Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Stop asking for room hindrance. Just quit being a scrub and buy bracers of frost.
    image
  • AtalkezAtalkez Posts: 4,699Member @@ - Legendary Achaean

    Getting stuck in Aeon with the shaman in room for more than 2 seconds is pretty much a guaranteed kill for them at this point, too.



    You hug Aurora compassionately.
    DochithaXinna
  • DochithaDochitha Posts: 1,283Member @ - Epic Achaean
    Atalkez said:

    Getting stuck in Aeon with the shaman in room for more than 2 seconds is pretty much a guaranteed kill for them at this point, too.

    Yep, pretty much the more reliable way for a Shaman to kill. That said, many still cure out. Aeon takes 3.7s balance so it's quite a good window to cure out of, even with asthma relapsing into it. 

    For instance, Sir @Aerek ;cure out of all Aeon attempts, be it asthma into aeon or concussion into aeon and he simply does not allow concussion+asthma+aeon to happen at all.
  • TalysinTalysin Posts: 575Member ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    You guys are making me miss Jester :3
    PraxidesDochithaAmranu
  • AmranuAmranu Posts: 725Member ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Tesha, your post is filled with so much wrong I don't even know where to begin. But we'll start with the assumption that my entire offense is scripted. This is completely false, as I've stated multiple times. Regardless, as I already stated in my last post I'm unsure if Shaman at the moment is more unreliable than it should be, or if I'm biased.

    As to being completely unable to kill someone if they're playing defensively during a kill attempt, that's frankly complete bull. Every single class in the game is designed around being able to kill someone regardless of their actions -some- of the time if they've built up their prep properly, or they have enough momentum.

    To put it bluntly, mangle is the only option Shaman have to hinder someone to start a real kill sequence, which is going to be a problem if it's too weak. But as I've already stated twice now I do not know if this is the case currently.
  • JinsunJinsun TN, USAPosts: 2,847Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Not only do I vehemently disagree with you regarding your second paragraph, I'd challenge you to name one scenario where that balancing is actually substantiated.
    image
    AradorKenway
  • CooperCooper IowaPosts: 4,447Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Amranu, your post is filled with so much wrong I don't even know where to begin. So I'm not going to because it's not worth it.

    Arador
Sign In to Comment.