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Bashing Areas

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  • ShirszaeShirszae Santo DomingoMember Posts: 3,128 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    If anything, it is the Mingruk who should rise up, slaughter the gnolls, and take their place fully in the exp chain.

    And you won't understand the cause of your grief...


    ...But you'll always follow the voices beneath.

  • CynlaelCynlael Member Posts: 3,257 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Kyrra said:
    My shaman got an SoA at around level 7
    Wtf. Money pls.

    ShirszaeNaverreDerrick
  • CynlaelCynlael Member Posts: 3,257 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Cynders said:
    When I was on a road trip and I only had my cellphone, I literally used CURING ON and made a few simple reflexes on the BlowTorch client and had keybinds for '
    Walk to Manara' and 'Walk to Minia'
    'Show XP'
    'Movement Compass - Including in/out up/down'
    'Kill Gnoll'

    This is all I had and I think I did Manara from level 21 up to level 65. On my cellphone. I really had no idea where else to hunt and I was gaining great amounts of exp from the soldiers, it also helps to know that they respawn on a 30 minute timer so if it's like the dead of night and no one was on, I was gaining a solid two levels per day if I wasn't lazy or uninspired to risk losing connection during the whole 12 hour car ride.
    Lol, as I was reading this...



    Green is turnins, orange goes to area and sets my tar variable to whatever's in the area. >.>

    Shirszae
  • WessuxWessux ChattanoogaMember Posts: 510 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    I can't cellphone hunt anymore now that I'm Mark. :< sad days. Also blowtorch keeps crashing all the time, and I have no idea how to fix it. 
    Invest in a 9mm retirement plan.
  • KyrraKyrra Sanctum of the SkyMember Posts: 4,824 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Cynlael said:
    Kyrra said:
    My shaman got an SoA at around level 7
    Wtf. Money pls.
    I always start a new alt around the time that the promos are the arti package sale so they are decked out in shinies and at least some level 3 gear.

    The perks of having a job and such, the monies.
    (D.M.A.): Cooper says, "Kyrra is either the most innocent person in the world, or the girl who uses the most innuendo seemingly unintentionally but really on purpose."

  • KlendathuKlendathu Eye of the StormMember Posts: 3,178 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Kyrra said:

    The perks of having a job and such, the monies.
    I have a job but no monies for shinies :( Stupid damn kids.

    Tharos, the Announcer of Delos shouts, "It's near the end of the egghunt and I still haven't figured out how to pronounce Clean-dat-hoo."
    AustereWessux
  • AndregorAndregor Member Posts: 98 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    I am jelly of bowtorch... Is there a good MUD client for iOS?
    image
  • CyndersCynders Member Posts: 7 ✭✭ - Stalwart
    Andregor said:
    I am jelly of bowtorch... Is there a good MUD client for iOS?
    Paging, @Orzaansyn
    I think she used iPhone for all her hunting up to Logosian. But I could be mistaken on her phone there.
  • HerenicusHerenicus The Western FrontMember Posts: 1,734 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    MUDRammer is excellent for the iPhone.
    Yae
  • CynlaelCynlael Member Posts: 3,257 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited February 2015
    Cynders said:
    Andregor said:
    I am jelly of bowtorch... Is there a good MUD client for iOS?
    Paging, @Orzaansyn
    I think she used iPhone for all her hunting up to Logosian. But I could be mistaken on her phone there.
    @Andregor - she used Pocket MUD Pro if I remember rightly.

    HerenicusOrzaansyn
  • AndregorAndregor Member Posts: 98 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Looks like I'll have to test both. Thanks @Cynlael  @Herenicus ;
    image
    HerenicusBluef
  • OrzaansynOrzaansyn Member Posts: 663 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Mudrammer is crap.

    PocketMud Pro is less worse than others because you can script.
    image
  • HerenicusHerenicus The Western FrontMember Posts: 1,734 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    You can so script in MUDrammer; @Orzaansyn, you have served yourself a phone duel at dawn.
  • JulesJules Member Posts: 2,169 @ - Epic Achaean
    edited February 2015
    Tahquil said:
    I think we should also acknowledge that there are different levels of skill in bashing much like combat regardless of class and artefacts. @Kayeil and @Cynlael, what I gathered from conversations about do and bashing and dragon floating around the forums that you are rather high up on the PvE spectrum.

    The average joe isn't going to have the strategies (or code?) in place to match you guys toe to toe and I think that's what we are aiming to document: Suggested bashing places for your average joe at so and so level.
    Kez said:
    Should still leave manara asap. Otherwise you're taking it away from people who can't do the harder areas that you can.
    So yeah, I hope/think that the list Sarapis is making really is going to be for average joe, both in terms of tankiness and not being particularly strategic with mobs will otherwise probably kill you and/or semi-automated.  

    Also, one of the things that seemed to hold true for many people in the many recent conversations about various aspects of XP, is that it really does behoove a player to be very, very risk averse - because every death really does cost you (I think that encouraging people to be so risk averse kind of sucks in a game, but that's a whole other topic).  And if you're bashing, you're presumably trying to have a net gain in XP!  That's why someone like Kayeil mentions that she bashes Manara even as a dragon.  It's why Shirszae says "Because it is good experience for those levels. And frankly, I am not entirely sure I agree with your logic. Why would someone willingly go to a harder place when an easier one serves just as well? People bash to earn exp, not to put themselves into needless risk of dying." - and she's right!  

    I just finally made level 81, and I did it partly by choosing areas where, even if I lagged a fair bit, or didn't regain balance quite fast enough, I could pretty easily tank the damage I was taking.  Not dying, not ever (or hardly ever) is key to bashing, it seems.  So really, maybe we need to have some more areas for the genuine newbies who ARE, I don't know, probably level 40-60, which are inacessible to the rest of us, and more areas that are just like them that are accessible to everyone else.  Basically, if an area is risky, it seems not worth it for most people.  

    EDIT:  Also, if so many people are running characters around on tiny phones at work with scripts... I mean, it's legal, but it irritates me that *that* is a valid way to power level and that if I'm not doing it I should feel like a bad player or something.  Grr.  
  • KayeilKayeil Washington StateMember Posts: 2,824 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Jules said:
    Tahquil said:
    I think we should also acknowledge that there are different levels of skill in bashing much like combat regardless of class and artefacts. @Kayeil and @Cynlael, what I gathered from conversations about do and bashing and dragon floating around the forums that you are rather high up on the PvE spectrum.

    The average joe isn't going to have the strategies (or code?) in place to match you guys toe to toe and I think that's what we are aiming to document: Suggested bashing places for your average joe at so and so level.
    Kez said:
    Should still leave manara asap. Otherwise you're taking it away from people who can't do the harder areas that you can.
    So yeah, I hope/think that the list Sarapis is making really is going to be for average joe, both in terms of tankiness and not being particularly strategic with mobs will otherwise probably kill you and/or semi-automated.  

    Also, one of the things that seemed to hold true for many people in the many recent conversations about various aspects of XP, is that it really does behoove a player to be very, very risk averse - because every death really does cost you (I think that encouraging people to be so risk averse kind of sucks in a game, but that's a whole other topic).  And if you're bashing, you're presumably trying to have a net gain in XP!  That's why someone like Kayeil mentions that she bashes Manara even as a dragon.  It's why Shirszae says "Because it is good experience for those levels. And frankly, I am not entirely sure I agree with your logic. Why would someone willingly go to a harder place when an easier one serves just as well? People bash to earn exp, not to put themselves into needless risk of dying." - and she's right!  

    I just finally made level 81, and I did it partly by choosing areas where, even if I lagged a fair bit, or didn't regain balance quite fast enough, I could pretty easily tank the damage I was taking.  Not dying, not ever (or hardly ever) is key to bashing, it seems.  So really, maybe we need to have some more areas for the genuine newbies who ARE, I don't know, probably level 40-60, which are inacessible to the rest of us, and more areas that are just like them that are accessible to everyone else.  Basically, if an area is risky, it seems not worth it for most people.  

    EDIT:  Also, if so many people are running characters around on tiny phones at work with scripts... I mean, it's legal, but it irritates me that *that* is a valid way to power level and that if I'm not doing it I should feel like a bad player or something.  Grr.  
    Pardon? I don't bash Manara as a dragon. You're mistaking me for someone else, or really misunderstood something I said.
    What doesn't kill you gives you exp.

  • JulesJules Member Posts: 2,169 @ - Epic Achaean
    I thought it was you that posted about bashing Manara in that (apparently now deleted) rage thread about losing XP while bashing Vertani.  Guess not.  Anyway, only real point is that high level people often bash well below their level because it pays to play it safe (and Manara in particular seems to yield higher XP than most in relation to its overall level).    
  • KayeilKayeil Washington StateMember Posts: 2,824 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Manara is probably not worth it after level 80, and now that you bring it up I vaguely recall someone talking about Manara but don't remember any of them saying they bash it as a dragon.
    What doesn't kill you gives you exp.

  • IocunIocun Member Posts: 3,506 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Maybe it has been mentioned and I missed it, in which case sorry, but: will such a list appear in-game?

    If so, I'm slightly worried that it will reduce Achaean places to mere "bashing spots" in the mind of (particularly new) players, i.e. that it might be read as an official statement of "these places are meant for bashing".

    I've always admired about Achaea that NPCs aren't inherently "monsters" or "quest givers" or "background scenery" and that places aren't inherently "bashing spots" or "questing spots" or "trade hubs", but that it's up to every individual player to decide in which way to interact with which denizens and base those decisions on his personal RP.

    That's also why I've never liked in-game organisations putting up lists like this, unless they were very clearly RP-driven (e.g. a city posting a list of its sworn enemies). Convenience is fine and dandy, but I'd still love if more emphasis was put on underlining the fact that every in-game interaction results from roleplaying a character and isn't just part of a mechanical mini-game.
    ShirszaeNim
  • JulesJules Member Posts: 2,169 @ - Epic Achaean
    If they put it in game it will probably just recommend that you should be such and such level to do battle with the inhabitants/creatures there (which doesn't necessarily mean you should, character depending).  
  • EldEld Member Posts: 3,946 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Iocun said:
    Maybe it has been mentioned and I missed it, in which case sorry, but: will such a list appear in-game?

    If so, I'm slightly worried that it will reduce Achaean places to mere "bashing spots" in the mind of (particularly new) players, i.e. that it might be read as an official statement of "these places are meant for bashing".

    I've always admired about Achaea that NPCs aren't inherently "monsters" or "quest givers" or "background scenery" and that places aren't inherently "bashing spots" or "questing spots" or "trade hubs", but that it's up to every individual player to decide in which way to interact with which denizens and base those decisions on his personal RP.

    That's also why I've never liked in-game organisations putting up lists like this, unless they were very clearly RP-driven (e.g. a city posting a list of its sworn enemies). Convenience is fine and dandy, but I'd still love if more emphasis was put on underlining the fact that every in-game interaction results from roleplaying a character and isn't just part of a mechanical mini-game.
    It's maybe worth noting that the list seems to be (close to) comprehensive, which would suggest that if it were translated to in-game information, it would probably be there for all areas (probably in something like the form Jules suggests, of a general idea of the formidability of the denizens in the area). To my mind, that's at least better (in terms of labeling areas as "bashing spots") than the sorts of lists of recommended hunting areas you usually see from IG orgs, which are generally lists of a selection of spots that are particularly good for it. If it's just an added piece of information available for all areas, it is a source of information on which areas might be good hunting for your level, but without singling any of them out as "bashing spots" as opposed to "questing spots" or "mudsexing spots" or whatever; you could argue, of course, that it tends toward reducing all areas to bashing spots, but I don't think that all areas being potential bashing spots (as well as potential questing spots, or potential <whatever you're looking for> spots) seems too out of keeping with the vision you're arguing for.
  • AustereAustere TennesseeMember Posts: 2,236 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    List need Targossas' guards for @Jhui ;
    Nim
  • IocunIocun Member Posts: 3,506 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Eld said:

    If it's just an added piece of information available for all areas, it is a source of information on which areas might be good hunting for your level, but without singling any of them out as "bashing spots" as opposed to "questing spots" or "mudsexing spots" or whatever; you could argue, of course, that it tends toward reducing all areas to bashing spots, but I don't think that all areas being potential bashing spots (as well as potential questing spots, or potential <whatever you're looking for> spots) seems too out of keeping with the vision you're arguing for.
    A list of "which areas might be good hunting for your level" automatically carries an implication of "these areas are meant for bashing". Sure, the game might even explicitly state that they can also be used for questing or whatever, but the initial impression of "that place is meant to give good XP for my level if I kill the denizens" still sticks.

    I've experienced this countless times. A new player might first not even consider that the npcs of denizen villages might be used as bashing targets, as after all - those aren't monsters in some dungeon, but people, and many traditional RPGs don't even allow you to kill those. Later, they read some in-game hunting list and suddenly see that place X is listed as a bashing spot and they're all like "oh, that's a bashing place too? Awesome. And it fits for my level? Great!" - so they go there and hunt, no matter if they're playing an evil character, a good character, or whatever, because after all: the game considers it a hunting spot, so it's fair game!

    The issue here is that many new players are confronted with lists based on what places are suitable for their level long before they are confronted with the expectation of basing their hunting practices on personal RP. This is further compounded by the fact that players that come from a more powergaming background are much more likely to focus on such level lists than RP recommendations, unless the latter are really stressed and the former downplayed.

    Lists like this, which focus on hard mechanical differences rather than in-game lore, will almost definitely have a detrimental effect on the perception of the game world as a deep, realistic place and move it more into a powergaming direction.
    HerenicusNimShirszae
  • LisbethaeLisbethae Member Posts: 176 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    @iocun There have been lists like this in game for at least 250 years. Remember Hakresh's book?
  • IocunIocun Member Posts: 3,506 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited February 2015
    Lisbethae said:
    @iocun There have been lists like this in game for at least 250 years. Remember Hakresh's book?
    I know. This is pretty much what I was thinking about when I wrote "that's also why I've never liked in-game organisations putting up lists like this, unless they were very clearly RP-driven (e.g. a city posting a list of its sworn enemies)". I always disliked that particular book for this reason.

    But despite this, it's still a difference between a list appearing in a player-written org-owned book and a list coming from an "official source" like a help file. The latter gives it even more weight.
  • RispokRispok Member Posts: 709 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Herenicus said:
    Might be cool if villages had a random monthly chance of posting bounties on hated individuals and/or incorporated the names of hated individuals into the local profanity: something to drive home the infamous criminality of mass denicide.
    So everything over level 80 would have dialogue that includes, "Shut up, or Penwize will come back from dormancy and get you!"
    Skye
  • JulesJules Member Posts: 2,169 @ - Epic Achaean
    Waaaaaaaaaaay back in the day, I bashed drakes in the vashnars.  Even then, it kind of bothered me.  Pretty sure I stopped well before drakes began to take on a more important role as a source of power for (non-Cyrene) city relics.  But now, I doubt most Cyrenians touch a drake, especially since I think we have a policy about it.  In fact, it's interesting that we're more serious about not killing drakes *now*, because the practical thing to do when the city relics came in would have been to start killing them, even if you'd felt bad enough to not do it before.  Anyway, it shows that player mores can and do shape behavior.  


     I also never bash Moghedu since I became a mhun quite a few years back now.  All a list like this should do it make it so everyone doesn't have to pester the same people in their org for appropriate bashing areas (and possibly feel like an ass for doing so).  
  • HerenicusHerenicus The Western FrontMember Posts: 1,734 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Rispok said:
    Herenicus said:
    Might be cool if villages had a random monthly chance of posting bounties on hated individuals and/or incorporated the names of hated individuals into the local profanity: something to drive home the infamous criminality of mass denicide.
    So everything over level 80 would have dialogue that includes, "Shut up, or Penwize will come back from dormancy and get you!"
    Don't be fatuous, @Rispok, though a minuscule chance for denizens to complain about the XP record-holder doesn't sound like a terrible incentive for bashing all the way to #1. My original thought was more along the lines of using FEELINGS VILLAGES to press home the "reality" of casual slaughter.
    Nim
  • IocunIocun Member Posts: 3,506 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited February 2015
    Where to hunt sounds like a perfectly adequate thing to discuss with your house, to me. It's exactly these discussions that lead to an increased awareness of possible RP implications. If a novice never has to ask anything of this sort, because a help file already provides all the mechanical answers, the whole issue of "conscientious hunting" might not even be raised at all - or only much later.

    I have no doubt that there are many players who still come to the personal decision to limit their hunting based on RP considerations, but the more the mechanical side of PvE is being emphasized by the game, the later this might happen, at which point it's much harder to still have such a profound effect.
    ShirszaeNizana
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