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Bashing Areas

SarapisSarapis Member, Administrator Posts: 3,398 Achaean staff
How does this chart roughly look to you guys in terms of appropriate bashing levels for the area?

Bracket refers to the rough level bracket we think it's appropriate for bashing. Mobs is # of mobs in the area. Level is average level, which may differ dramatically of course (we also can look at means and modes) within a level. Speed is average attack speed in seconds. Actually, looking at this, and the modes and means, some of the flat-out averages are pretty highly distorted. In any case, here's a table. Look at it with your eyes, not your hands!

(Annwyn shows as multiple areas 'cause it is.)

Area                                Bracket Mobs   Level   Speed   DPS           
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
the Valley of Lodi                  1-20    133    6.99    9.69    3.35     
the land of Minia                   1-20    168    5.61    7.25    3.52     
Mount Gheladan                      1-20    93     7.83    9.01    4.19     
the Eastern Shore                   1-20    29     17.58   7.82    11.87    
the Valley of Actar                 1-20    56     23.92   9.50    12.14    
the Sangre Plains                   1-20    35     25.91   8.57    12.32    
the Dungeon of the Beastlords       1-20    77     22.57   7.16    14.94    
Xhaiden Dale                        1-20    56     30.80   9.96    15.68    
Lake Narcisse                       1-20    31     32.90   10.09   16.19    
Green Lake                          20-40   39     34.61   9.38    16.90   
Enverren Marsh                      20-40   92     32.17   8.02    18.76    
Forest Watch                        20-40   79     26.89   6.58    19.12    
the Monastery of Shala'jen          20-40   96     30.26   8.08    19.25    
Inbhir Ness                         20-40   47     32.38   9.65    18.64    
an Underground Lake                 20-40   30     29.66   7.86    18.56    
Riparium                            20-40   65     30.15   7.93    18.93   
a filthy goblin village             20-40   63     35.19   8.00    20.04    
the Mhojave Desert                  20-40   104    33.24   8.50    20.79    
Manara Burrow                       20-40   181    28.09   6.01    21.03    
the Island off the Northern Vashnar 20-40   31     33.70   11.09   20.79    
Maim's Mansion                      20-40   62     36.12   7.87    21.16    
a Dwarven camp                      20-40   28     40.67   8.35    22.43    
the Ulangi Isles                    20-40   55     36.61   7.83    22.59    
Mount Piraeus                       20-40   33     39.69   8.81    22.97    
an Orcish outpost                   20-40   23     40.56   8.17    23.39   
the Siroccian Mountains             20-40   25     30.52   7.28    23.19    
the Isle of Ageiro                  20-40   103    43.98   8.80    23.88    
the Village of Aran'riod            20-40   44     37.68   8.36    25.19    
the ruins of Phereklos              20-40   102    50.78   9.05    25.73    
the Northreach Forest               20-40   27     45.18   8.66    26.54    
the Lost City of Kasmarkin          20-40   61     41.22   8.00    27.62    
the Isle of Polyargos               20-40   53     44.33   7.43    29.07    
the Creville Asylum                 20-40   152    39.90   6.57    29.01    
the Sea Lion Cove                   20-40   45     50.11   7.91    30.23    
the frozen tundra                   40-60   52     46.84   7.25    31.63    
the Island of Tuar                  40-60   120    64.12   9.92    31.50    
the Village of Tomacula             40-60   37     56.27   9.18    31.37    
Arcadia                             40-60   187    47.02   7.59    31.67    
the Azdun Dungeon                   40-60   224    50.94   7.75    33.09    
the Darkenwood Forest               40-60   40     61.62   8.60    36.96    
the River Mnemosyne                 40-60   25     55.88   8.84    36.71    
the Caves of Delmarin               40-60   48     60.31   8.29    38.11    
Saiha'balan Grotto                  40-60   39     60.25   8.28    39.47    
the Keep of Belladona               40-60   71     58.53   9.66    39.33    
Hriddan Settlement                  40-60   43     62.23   7.23    40.41    
the Istar Jungle                    40-60   80     72.57   8.90    41.01    
the Central Vasnari Mountains       40-60   27     62.59   7.92    40.80    
the village of Qurnok               40-60   67     63.67   7.28    41.41    
the Isle of New Hope                40-60   74     48.01   7.00    41.43    
the Northern Atrousian Jungle       40-60   23     64.34   7.17    42.35    
the Halls of Blackrock              60-80   63     69.28   7.26    45.65    
the Black Forest                    60-80   23     62.56   8.60    44.76    
a network of caves beneath New Ther 60-80   48     53.95   6.35    46.81    
the Caverns of Riagath              60-80   64     71.56   7.53    47.41    
the Caverns of Nuskuwe              60-80   91     75.05   8.17    47.74    
the Barony of Dun Valley            60-80   232    65.38   7.02    47.53    
the Dakhota Hills                   60-80   26     87.11   8.53    50.50    
the Thraasi Foothills               60-80   21     48.80   4.61    50.70    
Tapoa Island                        60-80   49     73.77   7.22    51.88    
Zaphar Isle                         60-80   97     66.13   7.60    51.66    
somewhere in the Notic Ocean        60-80   22     86.59   7.31    52.96    
the Isle of Harae                   60-80   42     46.35   5.59    52.91    
the Village of Genji                60-80   69     48.26   7.10    55.12    
the Vents of Hthrak                 60-80   30     63.06   6.60    56.21    
the Port of Umbrin                  60-80   47     77.65   7.10    56.46    
the Port of Mysia                   60-80   51     61.80   5.23    56.68    
the salt mines of Ulsyndar          60-80   34     76.58   6.00    57.39    
the Southern Vashnar Mountains      80-100  36     76.02   6.66    58.56    
Isaia                               80-100  38     73.28   6.47    59.42    
Zanzibaar                           80-100  120    74.55   6.96    59.46    
Grukai Swamp                        80-100  161    121.18  14.59   59.13    
the Ruins of Morindar               80-100  163    83.61   8.00    61.60    
Moghedu                             80-100  250    88.91   7.40    63.21    
the Northern Vasnari Mountains      80-100  101    84.05   6.94    68.83    
Quartz Peak                         80-100  44     79.95   5.97    69.83    
Wegava Valley                       80-100  35     58.71   5.42    69.83    
the Aalen Forest                    80-100  81     76.28   6.01    70.49    
Tenwat Prison                       100+    46     75.28   6.17    72.20   
the Mirror Caves                    100+    63     78.96   5.11    72.59    
Sirocco Fortress                    100+    119    93.57   7.18    76.37    
Istarion                            100+    219    117.57  7.75    76.06    
the Battlesite of Mourning Pass     100+    49     89.28   5.83    78.54    
Clockwork Isle                      100+    39     80.38   5.38    80.74    
Judgement Mountain                  100+    37     91.48   5.45    82.49    
the Lupine Hunting Grounds          100+    35     73.71   6.45    82.14    
Annwyn                              100+    51     99.01   5.70    85.70    
the Mines of Iskadar                100+    56     84.37   5.25    90.55    
Tir Murann                          100+    74     97.22   5.09    93.23    
The Gulf of Nilakantha              100+    38     111.18  7.10    94.01    
the Den of the Quisalis             100+    124    105.05  5.87    96.76    
the Underworld                      100+    167    115.08  7.26    97.78   
Annwyn                              100+    87     100.00  5.05    100.93   
the Azdun Catacombs                 100+    112    113.25  5.65    104.77   
the Isle of Prin                    100+    63     108.93  5.71    112.26   
Annwyn                              100+    45     118.00  4.40    126.81   
Annwyn                              100+    45     116.00  4.00    156.50  
AedinNaverreJulesValariaMathonwyTahquilAdetHeroseTaelXithGhiaSenaUtianimaBonji
«134

Comments

  • MehitabelMehitabel Member Posts: 9
    Erm...as a Runewarden with 17 con, I couldn't hit Qurnok and Creville until level 60-65. I know others who won't touch those areas til 75-80. 20-40 and 40-60 seems a little optimistic. For most of the other areas I bash this seems pretty good though. 
    KyttinAziik
  • FlorentinoFlorentino Member Posts: 516
    As you say, average level is nearly meaningless here. Especially in the high end, each of those areas has people most of us won't touch (e.g. the bosses) that throw off the level. Median would be better.
    Nim
  • SarapisSarapis Member, Administrator Posts: 3,398 Achaean staff
    Yeah, we have both mode and mean available to us, and some combination of them is probably best.
  • MelodieMelodie Port Saint Lucie, FloridaMember Posts: 5,097 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Southern Vashnars looks quite too high, too. 

    Interesting data nonetheless, though.
    Achimrst
  • SenaSena Member Posts: 3,957 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited February 2015
    Phereklos definitely isn't 20-40. A runewarden could likely handle it at level 30 if they're careful (avoiding the hydras), other classes might need to wait until level 50-60, someone particularly untanky might have trouble even then. Without decent offence though (near trans in your main bashing skill) it will probably be pretty slow, and not much worth bashing, so even if you can survive it at level 30-40 it's not necessarily a good choice. Also, it remains a viable bashing area up to level 80. Sticking to 20-level ranges, I'd put it at 60-80, but 40-80 or 50-80 would make sense too.

    Actar and Dungeon of the Beastlords will be pretty tough for 1-20, they make more sense for 20-40 (some people might have trouble with both areas even at level 20). Forest Watch should be at least 40-60, or for someone without clotting (since you'll likely have to deal with some very heavy bleeding there) I wouldn't recommend it until after level 60. An Orcish Outpost (assuming that's the orcs in the Siroccians) might be better placed at 40-60, 20-40 isn't much of a stretch for a knight that's purchased credits/lessons, but for most people they'd need to be at least close to 40 before they could handle it.

    I don't really know enough about most of the other areas to give a detailed opinion.

    Edit: There are also some good areas missing it seems. For example (not certain of exact area names) Valho Coast, which I'd probably put at either 60-80 or 80-100, and the scorpion pit beneath the Mhojave, which I'd put at 40-60 (but 20-40 could be reasonable).
    MelodieSarapisSkyeTirui
  • SarathaiSarathai Member Posts: 2,139 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited February 2015
    I'd bump LHG up a few places. The crystals, starbursts, dragging back and so on makes that place quite a bit nastier than, for example, Tir Murann. At least the times when I've gone there.

    I also agree that average level isn't of too much use. A lot of Tir Murann isn't hard for me to bash, as long as they don't start stacking up to 4+ mobs in the same room, but there are still outliers that I don't bother with. Damek, Rakrr, sometimes Rakwor, that kind.
    - (Eleusis): Ellodin says, "The Fissure of Echoes is Sarathai's happy place."
    - With sharp, crackling tones, Kyrra tells you, "The ladies must love you immensely."
    - (Eleusian Ranger Techs): Savira says, "Most of the hard stuff seem to have this built in code like: If adventurer_hitting_me = "Sarathai" then send("terminate and selfdestruct")."
    - Makarios says, "Serve well and perish."
    - Xaden says, "Xaden confirmed scrub 2017."



    Kyttin
  • SenaSena Member Posts: 3,957 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    For some of the larger areas (such as Azdun, Phereklos, Manara), there are multiple sections with very different stats, so it would make sense to split them up further even if mechanically they're a single area. There's a huge difference between the different levels of Manara for example, so the top level might be 20-40 while the bottom level is 40-60, for Azdun there are huge difference between the goblins on the upper level, the spiders on the upper level, the undead in the graveyard, etc.
    MelodieSkyeBluef
  • SkyeSkye The Duchess BellatereMember, Seafaring Liason Posts: 3,075 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I don't think Lake Narcisse is around 1-20. Siroccian mountains are easily doable from 10-20 though.

    Riparium / Arcadia / Aran'riod is selectively 20-40. Honestly, I'm nervous to bash some spots even in the 80-90s. 


  • ShirszaeShirszae Santo DomingoMember Posts: 3,272 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Arcadia should definitely be higher, I think. 

    And you won't understand the cause of your grief...


    ...But you'll always follow the voices beneath.

    Tirui
  • SarapisSarapis Member, Administrator Posts: 3,398 Achaean staff
    The goal here is to be able to provide a reasonable recommendation to newer players to Achaea what they may want to consider bashing, so we can definitely just hand alter these. Real-world feedback from you guys who are out bashing is very helpful.
    Kyttin
  • NexesNexes Member Posts: 86 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Why is Ageiro so low? I don't think I'd bash some of the stuff there even as a dragon.
  • SarapisSarapis Member, Administrator Posts: 3,398 Achaean staff
    @Nexes Because that's based off a straight average right now, and Ageiro has a lot of low-level mobs in it. Snakes, dragonflies, and so on.
    Kyttin
  • NimNim Member Posts: 2,015 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Underworld should probably be split too. Ignoring the PvP considerations (which I think should be ignored except as a red flag, since by level 70~80, level is far less important than player skill and character abilities/artefacts), there's a clear split in power between the lesser undead filling most of the plane, and the greater undead (deathknights, named mobs) that can generally be easily avoided.
  • KryptonKrypton shi-KhurenaMember Posts: 2,377 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Nexes said:
    Why is Ageiro so low? I don't think I'd bash some of the stuff there even as a dragon.
    Ageiro spans all the level brackets b/c you can quest to increase the denizens' strength. The basal denizen difficulty is about right for Level 20-40, I think.
    (Mhaldor): Herenicus says, "Apologies, I am in-and-out of hold with Verizon wireless customer service."
    MelodieEldTrilliana
  • SarathaiSarathai Member Posts: 2,139 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Sarapis said:
    The goal here is to be able to provide a reasonable recommendation to newer players to Achaea what they may want to consider bashing, so we can definitely just hand alter these. Real-world feedback from you guys who are out bashing is very helpful.
    "Every area I am currently bashing is terrible, so nobody should go there."

    More seriously, this will differ from class to class (e.g. Runies and other "tank" classes can deal with some areas much earlier than others can, as Sena pointed out for Phereklos), which will probably throw out the numbers.

    It'll also be affected by the competency of the person behind the keyboard and, perhaps most importantly, what they want to get out of the bashing: gold, experience, talisman pieces? Although I suppose people bashing for talisman pieces probably aren't the newer players you want this to be for.
    - (Eleusis): Ellodin says, "The Fissure of Echoes is Sarathai's happy place."
    - With sharp, crackling tones, Kyrra tells you, "The ladies must love you immensely."
    - (Eleusian Ranger Techs): Savira says, "Most of the hard stuff seem to have this built in code like: If adventurer_hitting_me = "Sarathai" then send("terminate and selfdestruct")."
    - Makarios says, "Serve well and perish."
    - Xaden says, "Xaden confirmed scrub 2017."



  • ValariaValaria Member Posts: 400 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Sarapis said:
    @Nexes Because that's based off a straight average right now, and Ageiro has a lot of low-level mobs in it. Snakes, dragonflies, and so on.
    @Sarapis, your list is interesting: i wonder if it is possible to add a command like 'areas' so it can list that is closer to adventurer's level? Just a thought. For now, i will copy it to my notepad++.

    2015/01/12 Tecton, the Terraformer has bestowed His divine favour upon you. It will last for approximately 1 Achaean month.
    Yae
  • JukilianJukilian Member Posts: 1,579 @ - Epic Achaean
    For Arcadia, the palace should be its own separate area for this. I've hunted there on a few characters from level 70 onwards (the palace).

    The bracket looks fine for the rest, otherwise.
  • SarapisSarapis Member, Administrator Posts: 3,398 Achaean staff
    Valaria said:
    Sarapis said:
    @Nexes Because that's based off a straight average right now, and Ageiro has a lot of low-level mobs in it. Snakes, dragonflies, and so on.
    @Sarapis, your list is interesting: i wonder if it is possible to add a command like 'areas' so it can list that is closer to adventurer's level? Just a thought. For now, i will copy it to my notepad++.
    Well, we'll likely stick the list in a help file so that we can manually tweak it rather than depending entirely on generated list, and break it down more (every 10 levels, for instance).
    Ghia
  • KyrraKyrra AustraliaMember Posts: 4,867 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Prin's sort of 80+ if you've got hunting arties. You can clear most of the isle < 100 except for the room with Xu because you end up getting rekt even if you hit and run. 
    (D.M.A.): Cooper says, "Kyrra is either the most innocent person in the world, or the girl who uses the most innuendo seemingly unintentionally but really on purpose."

    Yae
  • NimNim Member Posts: 2,015 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Kyrra said:
    if you've got hunting arties
    In fairness, artefacts functionally act as a level multiplier or other sort of boost, so assuming artefacts is functionally the same as assuming a higher level.

    The math itself is a bit tricky, and in some cases there aren't any direct relationships (eg. getting an artefact weapon boosts damage in a way that leveling up does not, outside of early on where levels mean lessons put toward your bashing skill and unlocking higher skill levels), but still.
  • ValariaValaria Member Posts: 400 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited February 2015
    Kyrra said:
    Prin's sort of 80+ if you've got hunting arties. You can clear most of the isle < 100 except for the room with Xu because you end up getting rekt even if you hit and run. 
    However, if only ship is cheaper to purchase. However, it's 2.5 million golds, at minimum, to obtain a ship. I'm sure someone going to tell me to borrow other ship but i don't want to undergoing other 'test' to see if i'm eligible to run their org/clan ship. At least, it would be nice if price get down a bit for me to go somewhere at all than depend on someone to take me there.

    Edit: i noticed that the number of areas for 80-100 is smaller. one or two of them are out of reach. maybe. However, by of course, i know it is not accurate as it is at the moment.

    2015/01/12 Tecton, the Terraformer has bestowed His divine favour upon you. It will last for approximately 1 Achaean month.
  • KayeilKayeil Washington StateMember Posts: 2,824 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    To be honest, I'd only give hunting area recommendations up to a certain level. From there they should know enough about exploring and hunting tactics to figure it out after that. Holding their hand up to dragon just doesn't seem to make much sense.
    What doesn't kill you gives you exp.

    Bluef
  • NaverreNaverre Member Posts: 304 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Kayeil said:
    To be honest, I'd only give hunting area recommendations up to a certain level. From there they should know enough about exploring and hunting tactics to figure it out after that. Holding their hand up to dragon just doesn't seem to make much sense.
    Also, if you give recommendations they might come to the areas you favor and increase competition. I'm already pissed off (jk) at two people on these forums for mentioning areas that were relatively nice to hunt. >.>
  • VesiosVesios Member Posts: 243 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Naverre said:
    Kayeil said:
    To be honest, I'd only give hunting area recommendations up to a certain level. From there they should know enough about exploring and hunting tactics to figure it out after that. Holding their hand up to dragon just doesn't seem to make much sense.
    Also, if you give recommendations they might come to the areas you favor and increase competition. I'm already pissed off (jk) at two people on these forums for mentioning areas that were relatively nice to hunt. >.>
    STOP INSINUATING THINGS AND PRAY HE DOESN'T ADD THE HOLY LAND TO THE LIST
  • EldEld Member Posts: 3,946 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited February 2015
    60-80 seems a little low to me for Umbrin; I don't see Colchis on the list, but I'd put it a little lower than Umbrin, but probably both in the 80-90ish range. Blackrock might also be a little low; fine for the upper end of the 60-80 range, but easier and really worthwhile for a while above that.

    Is the DPS column (average damage)/(average speed) or average (damage/speed)? For level, the median would probably be as useful as anything for a one-number summary.

    Also, in terms of difficulty, other useful inputs would be affliction rate, village loyalty, whether mobs defend each other, and (for areas with aggressive or loyal mobs) average mobs per room. 
    Lisbethae
  • MathonwyMathonwy Member Posts: 914 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Kayeil said:
    To be honest, I'd only give hunting area recommendations up to a certain level. From there they should know enough about exploring and hunting tactics to figure it out after that. Holding their hand up to dragon just doesn't seem to make much sense.
    ('exploring,' in this case, meaning 'vadimapper')
    Saeva said:
    If Mathonwy is 2006 I wish 2007 had never come.
    Xenomorph said:
    heh. Mathowned.
    Message #12872 Sent by Jurixe
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  • SarathaiSarathai Member Posts: 2,139 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Eld said:
    Also, in terms of difficulty, other useful inputs would be affliction rate, village loyalty, whether mobs defend each other, and (for areas with aggressive or loyal mobs) average mobs per room. 
    +1 to this. A room with lots of mobs who only attack you one at a time is going to be easier than a room with a bunch of mobs that will jump in and attack you all at once when you hit the first.

    So is whether the mobs have hammer tattoos or not, or some other way of breaking a shield. If you can just shield when you're in trouble and sit there while they futilely throw themselves at you, the difficulty level will go down. Or at least the risk of death will, though if they can one-shot you, whether you can shield or sip won't matter.
    - (Eleusis): Ellodin says, "The Fissure of Echoes is Sarathai's happy place."
    - With sharp, crackling tones, Kyrra tells you, "The ladies must love you immensely."
    - (Eleusian Ranger Techs): Savira says, "Most of the hard stuff seem to have this built in code like: If adventurer_hitting_me = "Sarathai" then send("terminate and selfdestruct")."
    - Makarios says, "Serve well and perish."
    - Xaden says, "Xaden confirmed scrub 2017."



  • ShirszaeShirszae Santo DomingoMember Posts: 3,272 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Mathonwy said:
    Kayeil said:
    To be honest, I'd only give hunting area recommendations up to a certain level. From there they should know enough about exploring and hunting tactics to figure it out after that. Holding their hand up to dragon just doesn't seem to make much sense.
    ('exploring,' in this case, meaning 'vadimapper')
    Er, not really? Exploring is exploring, and figuring things about the area you are in for yourself. Sure, you can use vadimapper, but I'd argue that comes afterwards, when you actually know the ins and out of an area.

    And you won't understand the cause of your grief...


    ...But you'll always follow the voices beneath.

    KayeilBluef
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