Weaponmastery Specs Discussion

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  • CaladbolgCaladbolg Campbell County TN
    Kenway said:
    I've wanted Kenway to be wielding a bastard sword since I learned that bastard swords existed.



    You can wield a bastard sword and do fine in combat as it is now, just make use of that CLEAVE ability you got

  • Addama said:
    What are you leaning toward?  From what I've gleaned from conversations/logs:


    Two-handed
    +Afflicts sip speed
    +Best damage application
    +Can strip rebounding/shield simultaneously
    +Passive paralysis curing/standing off-balance
    -Slowest attacks
    -Poor hindrance
    -Slow/no venom application
    -Wield/unwield spam, abilities weapon-specific


    Discuss.
    I am curious as to what you meant by passive paralysis curing and standing. I might be wrong but I believe those were both battlerage abilities, which means you're going to be sacrificing your offense every time you have to use them since you won't be able to do the speed/focus thing.

    From what I understand, the balance time was around 4s, or 3.5 or something quite long. This would allow a blademaster to prone/impale, a druid to swing/pound, and monks to swk/bbt -every- single time you attacked. It's not really so much a cool feature as it is a necessity for a class that attacks as slow as it does. Same thing goes for their ability to cure paralysis. The battlerage timer on paralysis is very long, I felt like it was around 10 seconds or so. This is just as much a necessity because while off balance you can't fitness or touch tree, a luxury all the other knight classes will get.

    Not sure what you meant by no hindrance, their limb afflictions are sweet as hell. Also very unlikely to see wield/unwield spam. I imagine both weapons will be balanced in a way that sticking with one is mostly better (if the impale thing gets fixed.)

    I will personally be going with 2H, because I always pictured Aepas a kind of brute carrying around a sword a bit too big for him (Goes all the way back to druid days. Made a compressed iron sword in the swamps) So I'm very excited for it. I can see it being the glass cannon of the bunch, easy to mess up, but very powerful in the right hands.
    Replies the scorpion: "It's my nature..."
  • Aepas said:

    Not sure what you meant by no hindrance, their limb afflictions are sweet as hell. Also very unlikely to see wield/unwield spam. I imagine both weapons will be balanced in a way that sticking with one is mostly better (if the impale thing gets fixed.)
    Hindrance is momentum (fractures) based, though; it's not like you start out with a ton of hindrance like you can get from venoms with dual cutting.

    You'll need to utilise both weapons available to get the absolute most out of two-handed spec, at least that's the intention. That's how they're rationalising the artefact costs and every other spec having to buy twice as many artefact weapons, anyway.
  • Yeah, Antonius said what I was going to say.  Dual Cutting and SnB have hindrance options you can use any time without prep.  Sarapis/Tecton already said that you'll have to use both bastard/warhammer to see the full potential of 2H, and that unfortunately means some weapon spam (not that this is incredibly hard to gag/ignore).
    ~Kresslack's obsession~
  • If weapon switching is intended to be part of the class, is there/can there be an actual ability to swap them with a single command added to the spec? That would cut down on spam and make the intention a little bit clearer - the only consequence I can think of is fewer commands in retardation, but if anything I feel like that's probably a good thing for balance.
  • Tael said:
    If weapon switching is intended to be part of the class, is there/can there be an actual ability to swap them with a single command added to the spec? That would cut down on spam and make the intention a little bit clearer - the only consequence I can think of is fewer commands in retardation, but if anything I feel like that's probably a good thing for balance.
    Heh, I can't even imagine what 3.5 second balance feels like in retardation.
    ~Kresslack's obsession~
  • It'd feel like 3.5s if you used it properly. If anything, slower attacks are easier to mnage.
  • I'm planning to go Two-Hander and have been since I started and found out about Knight Changes. A rapier wielding Knight of Evil seems kinda like... well like a sissy. And can you envision being super fast in a suit of fullplate armour? Pft.

    Like others I'm a bit worried about people just sticking me with clumsiness to kill my momentum but... we'll see.

    So, here's a thought about Two-hander. How is it going to work with DSB if it doesn't "torso break" or is sensitivity damage from rib fractures enough to kill someone with DSB? Dry DSB Does barely any damage so I'm wondering how its going to work, does anyone know?
    Rise, and rise again, until lambs become lions.
  • It can torso break. Almost guaranteed sensitive dsb's with pre damage will also suffice in most cases with the secondary skills and pre-damage
  • TharvisTharvis The Land of Beer and Chocolate!
    @Krux knights won't be able to use rapiers anymore either way
    Aurora says, "Tharvis, why are you always breaking things?!"
    Artemis says, "You are so high maintenance, Tharvis, gosh."
    Tecton says, "It's still your fault, Tharvis."

  • Tael said:
    If weapon switching is intended to be part of the class, is there/can there be an actual ability to swap them with a single command added to the spec? That would cut down on spam and make the intention a little bit clearer - the only consequence I can think of is fewer commands in retardation, but if anything I feel like that's probably a good thing for balance.
    With the recent changes to the way wielding works, and assuming you don't want to utilise containers, there's already a single command (on the player end, anyway): WIELD BASTARD/WARHAMMER.
    Krux said:
    So, here's a thought about Two-hander. How is it going to work with DSB if it doesn't "torso break" or is sensitivity damage from rib fractures enough to kill someone with DSB? Dry DSB Does barely any damage so I'm wondering how its going to work, does anyone know?
    The most you can hope for on a regular basis with a disembowel + sensitivity, but no torso break, is ~90% of maximum health. For that you'd need to be a strength-specced Satyr/Xoran/Troll Paladin using both Inspiration and Fury with the Improved physique trait, level three gauntlets, a Jera rune and the elixir of the ogre (Shop of Wonders item) active (or, put another way, have 25 strength).

    Unartied Infernal, you're looking at around 62-65% of maximum health, depending on race. That can be reduced further by a whole host of things, including Algiz rune, serpent scales, and occultist orb. You're going to need a fair amount of pre-damage for that to kill them.
  • Yeah, but the neat thing is that you're also slowing their sip rate during your prep, so they'll likely be pre-damaged or at least unable to quickly recover following the DSB.

    Torso prep will likely be needed for high CON opponents still, but I imagine that it won't against most.
    ~Kresslack's obsession~
  • With the slow speed of two-handed attacks and impale, they have a lot of time for sips and moss/potash usage (likely two of each) to get their health back up. Let's wait and see how things work out, but I'm not convinced disembowel is going to be that reliable for two-handed once people figure out how to fight against them, unless you can get it with torso broken.
  • Antonius said:
    With the slow speed of two-handed attacks and impale, they have a lot of time for sips and moss/potash usage (likely two of each) to get their health back up. Let's wait and see how things work out, but I'm not convinced disembowel is going to be that reliable for two-handed once people figure out how to fight against them, unless you can get it with torso broken.
    Well besides having to use health to cure the fractures, remember that broken ribs lower the effectiveness of health elixers. While they will get plenty of time to sip up, a few broken ribs will go a long way into reducing the total health that they can restore. It's amazingly easy to get a X2 dsb (assuming no tumble), and I think with some arm breaks I had a X3 DSB. the overall damage will work fine I think.
    Replies the scorpion: "It's my nature..."
  • What exactly do you mean by "X2 dsb" and "X3 dsb"? That's not terminology that automatically makes sense to me.
  • @Antonius‌ back on the test server you were able to easily get off  double and triple dsb off in a row if not more on some people.
  • Antonius said:
    What exactly do you mean by "X2 dsb" and "X3 dsb"? That's not terminology that automatically makes sense to me.
    Double/triple disembowel.  In other words, following up a disembowel with a second/third impale/disembowel sequence.

    Hhaos was telling me he could pull off double disembowels with a fast flail to re-break limbs, but idk if that will necessarily work anymore.
    ~Kresslack's obsession~
  • Not sure the test server is really indicative of what's actually feasible, though. Not only will things have changed, but you're talking about what is essentially a brand new class going up against people who have never seen it before. Probably far from optimal curing being employed against it, just like Occultist when the changes first came out.
  • Even server side curing was spotty when we were on test. Once curing systems get updated we will see which starts will actually work.
  • WessuxWessux Chattanooga
    Addama said:
    Antonius said:
    What exactly do you mean by "X2 dsb" and "X3 dsb"? That's not terminology that automatically makes sense to me.
    Double/triple disembowel.  In other words, following up a disembowel with a second/third impale/disembowel sequence.

    Hhaos was telling me he could pull off double disembowels with a fast flail to re-break limbs, but idk if that will necessarily work anymore.
    These people don't know what tumble is. Tumble is da bes.
    Invest in a 9mm retirement plan.
  • KenwayKenway San Francisco
    @Aepas paralysis cure is battlerage, standing isn't.

    - Limb Counter - Fracture Relapsing -
    "Honestly, I just love that it counts limbs." - Mizik Corten
  • Antonius said:
    What exactly do you mean by "X2 dsb" and "X3 dsb"? That's not terminology that automatically makes sense to me.
    I tested on @Morthif extensively, and you can very reliably pull off 4 DSB's back to back with 2H. It takes a little prep work, but it's very easily done.

    That being said, if your opponent stays in room long enough to let you do this, they deserve every single impale.

    "You have to learn the rules of the game. And then you have to play better than anyone else."

     -Albert Einstein

  • Wessux said:
    Tumble is da bes.
    No, I'm da bes.



    ~Kresslack's obsession~
  • AerekAerek East Tennessee, USA
    Aelios said:
    I tested on @Morthif extensively, and you can very reliably pull off 4 DSB's back to back with 2H. It takes a little prep work, but it's very easily done.

    That being said, if your opponent stays in room long enough to let you do this, they deserve every single impale.
    Everything is "easy" if your opponent lets you do it. That's kinda what we're saying, that opponents who are worth killing aren't going to just stand there and let you get to 8 fractures, and they're not going to just lay there and let you get 2-3 DSBs, so I have questions about how 2H will handle those opponents.

    I don't see where 2H will have torso damage against anyone good, but I can where 2H can easily score 1 tumble-off "DSB" and 1 actual dry DSB with ease. That will probably be enough for some opponents, but I'm not sure it will be enough for the hardened targets, since dry DSBs are what they are, and you get multiple chances to sip through between the Impales and Disembowels. If you can guarantee sensitivity, that would probably do the trick, but that seems avoidable with some prio swaps.

    It's too soon to tell. 2H has a real big advantage in that it can work in regular limb breaks on top of its Devastate limb breaks, plus longer health elixir balances if you let them do that, so there are a few too many threads to account for without actually being able to try it. We'll just have to wait, play, and see.
    -- Grounded in but one perspective, what we perceive is an exaggeration of the truth.
  • Aerek said:
    Aelios said:
    I tested on @Morthif extensively, and you can very reliably pull off 4 DSB's back to back with 2H. It takes a little prep work, but it's very easily done.

    That being said, if your opponent stays in room long enough to let you do this, they deserve every single impale.
    Everything is "easy" if your opponent lets you do it. That's kinda what we're saying, that opponents who are worth killing aren't going to just stand there and let you get to 8 fractures, and they're not going to just lay there and let you get 2-3 DSBs, so I have questions about how 2H will handle those opponents.

    I don't see where 2H will have torso damage against anyone good, but I can where 2H can easily score 1 tumble-off "DSB" and 1 actual dry DSB with ease. That will probably be enough for some opponents, but I'm not sure it will be enough for the hardened targets, since dry DSBs are what they are, and you get multiple chances to sip through between the Impales and Disembowels. If you can guarantee sensitivity, that would probably do the trick, but that seems avoidable with some prio swaps.

    It's too soon to tell. 2H has a real big advantage in that it can work in regular limb breaks on top of its Devastate limb breaks, plus longer health elixir balances if you let them do that, so there are a few too many threads to account for without actually being able to try it. We'll just have to wait, play, and see.
    Oh way ahead of you. What has it been, 2 years?
    Replies the scorpion: "It's my nature..."
  • Aerek said:
    Aelios said:
    I tested on @Morthif extensively, and you can very reliably pull off 4 DSB's back to back with 2H. It takes a little prep work, but it's very easily done.

    That being said, if your opponent stays in room long enough to let you do this, they deserve every single impale.
    Everything is "easy" if your opponent lets you do it. That's kinda what we're saying, that opponents who are worth killing aren't going to just stand there and let you get to 8 fractures, and they're not going to just lay there and let you get 2-3 DSBs, so I have questions about how 2H will handle those opponents.

    ...stuff...

    That's just it... Morthif was able to tank 4 DSB's without dying. 

    Just because you can do it doesn't mean its effective. Also, it happened with him fighting back as well just to see if it's possible. It is, and quite easily done might I add. Took a little longer to prep (maybe 3 minutes in total?), but it was done none-the-less.

    "You have to learn the rules of the game. And then you have to play better than anyone else."

     -Albert Einstein

  • edited December 2014
    I vaguely remember being heavy on the Hands button though
  • Also, tumble? 

  • As for what I would lean towards, probably 2h as it seems to gel the best with Vivisect. Makarios mentioned S&B making venom based vivisect possible but sadly I did not test that spec well enough to see how. 

    Of course first prize would be flexibility to change specs instead of being lesson or credit locked into one. An artefact that allows you to change specs once a RL day given a nice 30 second balance cost so you don't use it mid combat could be a solution that meets that halfway. 

    I recall we could get a week to switch back and forth between the specs, so I'll hopefully be around for that. I do wish though that it would rather be "Switching to a spec for the first time is free" since that gives more time to test and play and also helps people who might not be around for the test week.

  • Anyone know which spec will be the best for hunting?  SnB is tempting because of the SoA, but is it the best choice? 

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