Weaponmastery Specs Discussion

Arador

@Aerek pretty much raised all my reservations with the specs. I can not wait to see what has been added since the test server but as they were, each seemed to have a massive flaw that makes me unsure about what I would end up using. 

Tael

Aerek said:

lower damage on scimitars translates to more hits to prep

That might end up being true, but it also might not. There isn't a direct translation between damage (as measured by health loss) and limb damage. Particularly with weapon stats being standardised, I would not be terribly surprised if weapon-based limb damage sees some tweaking or if DSL specifically gets a slightly different formula than the attacks of other specs. At the very least, if indeed DSL prepping ends up being too slow, it'll be a lot easier for them to adjust it without messing with the other weapons/specs at the same time, which was previously impossible.

Aerek

You're half right. Limb damage is determined -specifically- by weapon damage and max health. Going from 80-damage weapons I use now, to 58-damage weapons which is what scimitars were on Anarchaea, is a significant jump in the hits needed to prep a target.

I would love it if the formula got tweaked some to eliminate the extremes, but there was some resistance to that idea early on in the planning, and no mention of it since, so I don't have my hopes up.

Amarillys

Is it bad I'm just sorta waiting for someone to make a dark skinned Tsol'aa, go dual wielding, and buy a pet panther?

Tael

Aerek said:

You're half right. Limb damage is determined -specifically- by weapon damage and max health.

The point I was trying to make is that nothing stops them from adjusting that damage for DSL specifically.

The previous problem was that tweaking the formula that relates the damage stat to limb damage to make scimitars do more limb damage also affects other weapons. That's particularly problematic with randomised stats from forging because, in addition to making scimitars better, it also incentivises things like using lower-damage rapiers with higher speed.

Now that stats are standardised and you can't DSL with such a wide variety of weapon types anyway, there's really no reason why the limb damage of DSL can't be manipulated independent of the weapon damage stat. There's no reason why DSLs can't just do 10% more limb damage than the stats on your scimitar would lead you to expect given non-DSL attacks with them.

Honestly, it's sort of silly that weapons even have stats anymore. Now that they're standardised, they're basically just different commands that require you to be holding an item - similar to blademaster swords or serpent dirks, for which the stats are mostly just a weird legacy thing.

Kenway

I've wanted Kenway to be wielding a bastard sword since I learned that bastard swords existed.

Aerek's comments as to the possible shortcomings of the spec are absolutely accurate from what I experienced on the test server and I'm also somewhat nervous on the discrepancies between the different knight classes.

Super curious what's in store for Runelore. The changes that are or are not made to Runelore/Devotion/Necromancy will be huge. Piety/Gravehands are the biggest things in my mind. With weapon runes no longer effecting stats, Runies no longer have their large dps advantage and with all weapons at the same speed, they no longer have access to venom bypasses that the other two classes do not (at least without dropping serious gold/credits on rapiers). This was in my mind the main reason Runies never had a room hindrance skill. Their extra damage and speed not only made tanking them harder than the other two classes but also allowed them to bypass parry far more "easily" (quotes because all methods had/have relatively simple counters and bypasses relied almost entirely on the ignorance of your opponent to these methods). Room hindrance, on the other hand, gives access to a much more reliable (though slower) method of bypass: the double arm break. Which, for those who don't know, the hard counter for is, leaving the room.

Also mildly concerned with just how slow two-hander is. I realize that that's the tradeoff but on the test server I was damaged out by a magi before I could get my third hit in (that's at maximum 5 fractures if they're not curing). I know that damage is a thing and you have to fight accordingly but 1. as a momentum based class you generally don't want to have to run too much, kinda counter-productive. Yes it would get substantially more survivable as momentum builds but: 2. the long balance times are not exactly indicative of hit-and-running.

All in all I'm very pleased with all the specs as I've seen them so far, super pumped to see what further changes they made, and I'm in a place where my nervousness has lifted enough that I totally trust the admin to make adjustments to each spec as needed as everyone figures the ins and outs. REALLY hoping we never end up seeing an optimal setup for any of the knight classes. Would be amazing if each of the three had at least two specs that could be considered optimal choices so it really comes down to playstyle.

Makarios

Dsl limb damage is handled slightly differently now, yes. (Sorry, yes, that does mean your limbcounters will probably break.)

Addama

Makarios said:

Dsl limb damage is handled slightly differently now, yes. (Sorry, yes, that does mean your limbcounters will probably break.)

So... you're changing the limb formula, or limb damage as it correlates to strength/weapon damage?

Antonius

Losing 20 (or is it 30?) points of damage going from Soulpiercers to level three scimitars I was expecting to have to redo the values on my limb counter anyway.

@Makarios: Is this just going to bring in the extremes (i.e. dragons with a lot of artefacts) or will it be a relatively flat across the board reduction in the number of hits required?

Aerek

Works for me either way. I never bothered trying to work out the actual formula, I just counted hits and paid attention.

Xinna

I want to go SNB, but first I want to know how much it's going to be nerfed.

Kinilan

Xinna said:

I want to go SNB, but first I want to know how much it's going to be nerfed.

@Jhui is rolling Sword and Board.

so, you know, a lot.

Dalran

I hope they nerf 2h into the ground @Kinilan

Addama

Can't believe I'm the only person stoked on dual blunt

REBOUNDING MITIGATION COME ON GUYS

Kenway

Addama said:

Can't believe I'm the only person stoked on dual blunt

REBOUNDING MITIGATION COME ON GUYS

Carve and Splinter, yo.

Xinna

Kinilan said:

Xinna said:

I want to go SNB, but first I want to know how much it's going to be nerfed.

@Jhui is rolling Sword and Board.

so, you know, a lot.

. It's so hot right now. Temptation is high.

Kuy

I may very well go infernal dual blunt.

Xinna

Kuy said:

I may very well go infernal dual blunt.

Will pwn your dual blunt with my infernal SNB.

We can all go infernal!

Kuy

Xinna said:

Kuy said:

I may very well go infernal dual blunt.

Will pwn your dual blunt with my infernal SNB.

We can all go infernal!

Let's do this.

Atalkez

We might do better as an army of Infernal @Xinna‌

Xer

I was thinking Infernal SnB since a while ago, but active Runelorists... *Sigh*.

Tael

Kuy said:

I may very well go infernal dual blunt.

The very first thing I imagined when I saw the knight changes was a Mhaldorian Witch-King of Angmar dual-wielding those huge flails.

Closely followed by a Targossan SnB Leona from LoL.

Lorielan

Cyrenian Garen inbound. Spin to respect.

Kresslack

Lorielan said:

Cyrenian Garen inbound. Spin to respect.

Easily countered by the Elusive Eleusian Teemo hiding in the brush.

Kuy

Bullshit.  Cyrenian Garen will counter himself.

No man can eat that many cupcakes and spin furiously.

Aedin

While I'm all for these changes and welcome it openly, I'm just curious on where exactly as @Kenway stated runelore is gonna be at when this comes out. Personally I'm interested in Dual Blunt and while during the testing you weren't allowed to put runes or make them runeblades or runeweapons persay (Sadly) and the lack of anything out side of just sheer damage that level three flails did on the server. The Lack of a Finisher really does put a hinder on the flails in certain scenarios 

Addama

Aedin said:

The Lack of a Finisher really does put a hinder on the flails in certain scenarios 

Assault.

Xith

Tried an alt knight a long time ago. Then learned that eventually rappers would be better than long/broadswords for me. Kinda ruined it. 

So bards and knight are definitely getting a theme upgrade with these changes. 

if I did go knight would probably prefer 2-handed sword.

Kardal

For me the choice is made. I'll be going with 2h for RP reasons and because I just find it very cool. Even if it turns out to be the "weakest" it won't be useless. Been doing everything with a scimitar and axe while common sense dictated I should be wielding two rapiers So I'm used to being slow already!

As some of the previous people mentioned naturally I'm also curious about Runelore, but beside that I also wonder how the hunting will be! At least in my case they did a good job in making Achaea interesting again, wasn't around much lately.

Arador

All have amazing potential. The biggest question will be what happens when people cure intelligently against them. On the try out most people had no clue what to really do to defend, what to watch out for and how to cure properly so the impressions were a bit skewed.

2h is a steamroller. Nothing can really stand still in the room with them indefinitely no matter how tanky or smart at curing. The downside is that they take damn long to get to a point where they are dangerous. Many classes can kill you many times over before you even start getting close to worrying for them. I think a few tweaks could make it truly awesome, specifically to attack speed being raised with damage lowered.