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Knight in a nutshell (Warning : Spoilers)

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  • MizikMizik Member Posts: 2,092 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Trey said:

    Regardless of whether you know that or not, though, the point you are making could essentially be taken as 'don't do what you like doing in the game if you can't find the weapons you need'. This is a retarded viewpoint, bro. If true, it's indicative of a problem that needs to be fixed inherent to the system, not a reason for someone to not have fun in the game.
    If 'what you want to do' is enter the 'Top Tier' of combat, then I don't find it unreasonable to require top end gear. Forging is not random for anyone but the forger. Everyone else has a 100% chance to purchase 240+ speed rapiers.

    What's the argument against purchasing these. They're out there. Is it price? Let's assume at the most ludicrous, we haggle up to 250-300cr for a 70/152/243 rapier. Is 300cr a ridiculous price to pay for a weapon that will dramatically increase your offensive capability and allow you to fight at the top tier?

    Is 1500cr for a Thoth's Fang more or less absurd?

    1600cr for an Ice Band?

    1600cr Knuckles + Collar + Sash?

    My point is the cost ceiling to obliterate 99% of the playerbase - nevermind the top tier - is much lower for Knights who need a small fraction of what other classes require to compete. As a Knight, I literally required no artefacts, but a comparatively tiny investment for my weapons. After that, the three Knights are better off defensively with their stock abilities than nearly all classes when artefacted. Offensively, the ceiling levels for killing levels of Disembowel are obtainable without Gauntlets - the only artefact that helps. 15 + 1trait + 1jera + 2fury = 19 Stock str, 88% DSB. These fast rapiers also give the best chance to pull off a Vivisect or Damnation.

    No class is better off than the Knights for weapon requirement vs cost. It is fair to say that players may lack the real life marketing, sales, hustling experience required to pressure, haggle and maintain an aggressive ig market network - but all these things can be taught or delegated by the in game orgs. Refusal to utilize the tools provided is gonna end up with hardcoded 'favours' and an even more loaded entry cost (let's be honest, the obvious fair solution will be to improve the 1600 x 2 = 3200cr pair of artefacts) and an inflated tier level with unnecessarily boosted top players.

    The great will always get greater and the 'bar' will move with them.
    image
    MeradorJhuiAelios
  • AntoniusAntonius Member Posts: 4,804 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Mizik said:
    Everyone else has a 100% chance to purchase 240+ speed rapiers.
    http://forums.achaea.com/discussion/2233/what-happened-to-forging/p2

    For anybody who can't be bothered to add those numbers up, that's 47 rapiers of greater than 240 speed added to the game in the period between September 2007 and May 2014 (a bit under seven years). That sort of suggests it's simply not possible for everybody to purchase 240+ speed rapiers.
    TreySherazad
  • MizikMizik Member Posts: 2,092 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited October 2014
    Plenty to go around.

    Also make sure that's not the only portion of my post you read.
    image
  • XerXer LangleyMember Posts: 804
    edited October 2014
    I think what Antonius meant is that there's a lot -less- than that, given that rapiers actually decay. Obviously the average is a terrible way to go about it, but if we do use it, that's about 7 rapiers per year, and rapiers decay within a year. So on average, there are 7 rapiers that are above 240 speed in any given year. So only 3 people this year will have two rapiers over 240 speed should be the more accurate way of thinking about it, instead of 47 rapiers in existence. I don't know the actual numbers or state of rapier forging though, but that's how I interpreted what Antonius was trying to convey.

    EDIT: Lol, I didn't actually look at the chart. So this year, only two people should have a pair of over 240 speed rapiers. Granted, with stasis bags, let's say they last two years, so let's include 2013. That's 9 rapiers total, or 4 people who currently can have a pair of 240's. Unruned of course.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------
    e^(iπ) + 1 = 0
  • AerekAerek East Tennessee, USAMember Posts: 1,818 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Further, that chart is just looking at speed, sans other stats. A rapier could come out with 245 speed, but 120 accuracy, so in reality, there's going to be even fewer rapiers in circulation with that speed than the chart implies, because not all of the 240+'s forged will be useable.  Hopefully, this is a moot point because the new forging system will solve the issue of rarity, but that all depends on whether 225 is the new base speed for scimitars that can be improved via forging, or a new flat speed, like BM swords. I'm hoping the former, because if the latter, purchasing level 2 artefacts will effectively be mandatory for any Knight wanting to compete, and that's unreasonable, I think.

    -- Grounded in but one perspective, what we perceive is an exaggeration of the truth.
  • CooperCooper IowaMember Posts: 4,979 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    After the Knight changes announced this whole thread is pretty irrelevant.

    The attitudes displayed within were pretty shitty and disappointing.

    Texel
  • WessuxWessux ChattanoogaMember Posts: 510 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    I'm sorry @Cooper‌ :<
    Invest in a 9mm retirement plan.
  • DaeirDaeir AustraliaMember Posts: 6,276 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    You did WHAT?

    OY GEVALT
  • KadinKadin Member Posts: 123 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    I managed to find 2 top tier rapiers but they were not cheap at all. Don't know if I could of found a better set (for runewarden) if I had 2000cr to spend on weapons. 
  • ErnamErnam Member Posts: 2,416 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean

    I found three 235s in a shop when I went to do paladin limb damage testing a while back.

    Did the forgers just stop forging, or what?

    "Our lives are not our own. We are bound to others, past and present. And by each crime and every kindness, we birth our future."


          Manda  |  Godzilla  |  SLC
      1. AradorArador Member Posts: 1,696 @@ - Legendary Achaean
        I've seen a few 230+ rapiers in shops. Sadly though they either suck on damage or can't hit the side of a cathedral. I'm so glad random weapon stats are going away. 

      2. AchillesAchilles Los AngelesMember Posts: 2,506 @@ - Legendary Achaean
        edited November 2014
        Ernam said:

        I found three 235s in a shop when I went to do paladin limb damage testing a while back.

        Did the forgers just stop forging, or what?

        I told you, 235s rapiers are about 1 in 1000.  231 or faster is 1 in 600.

        No one mass forges without a hammer (400cr) and steel prices have gone up by 30-50%.  

        Forgers pretty much smelt anything below 215 speed.  The 215-223 speed stuff is priced pretty low since they are mainly for PvE or lowbies.

        image
      3. AntoniusAntonius Member Posts: 4,804 @@ - Legendary Achaean
        I wouldn't be surprised if forgers weren't as interested in spending large amounts of gold and time on potentially getting top tier rapiers, considering the market for them is cutting to be cut massively after the Knight/Weaponry changes and weapon stats on forged items will all be the same anyway.
        AddamaWessuxTreySherazad
      4. AddamaAddama Member Posts: 947 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
        Antonius said:
        I wouldn't be surprised if forgers weren't as interested in spending large amounts of gold and time on potentially getting top tier rapiers, considering the market for them is cutting to be cut massively after the Knight/Weaponry changes and weapon stats on forged items will all be the same anyway.
        I've put exactly zero lessons into Forging for this reason.

        Knights are also going to lose the ability to use rapiers, so like, there goes 99% of Forging's utility.
        ~Kresslack's obsession~
        Tibitha
      5. MishgulMishgul ROTHERHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMMember Posts: 5,314 @@ - Legendary Achaean
        Not sure what you mean by 99% of forging's utility there.

        -

        One of the symptoms of an approaching nervous breakdown is the belief that one's work is terribly important

        As drawn by Shayde
        hic locus est ubi mors gaudet succurrere vitae
        Arador
      6. AddamaAddama Member Posts: 947 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
        Okay actually I forgot about fullplate, that counts for at least 50%.

        Also Bards will presumably keep using rapiers and will still need fast ones.

        But the demand for fast rapiers will be far, far less.
        ~Kresslack's obsession~
      7. AmarillysAmarillys Member Posts: 797 @ - Epic Achaean
        All rapiers will have the same stats.



      8. AeliosAelios Member Posts: 449 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
        Ernam said:

        I found three 235s in a shop when I went to do paladin limb damage testing a while back.

        Did the forgers just stop forging, or what?

        Yes. Why would I waste 90 hours of sitting in a room using DOR FORGE when Knight changes will make 90% of the Rapier market vanish?

        Antonius said:
        I wouldn't be surprised if forgers weren't as interested in spending large amounts of gold and time on potentially getting top tier rapiers, considering the market for them is cutting to be cut massively after the Knight/Weaponry changes and weapon stats on forged items will all be the same anyway.
        ^ This guy gets it. I have 4 rapiers in my shop -- all trash 219's.

        "You have to learn the rules of the game. And then you have to play better than anyone else."

         -Albert Einstein

      9. ExelethrilExelethril Member Posts: 3,350 @@ - Legendary Achaean
        Imagine all the weaponless knights if knight changes don't come around any time soon :fearful: 

        [ SnB PvP Guide | Link ]

        [ Runewarden Sparring Videos | Link ]
        RomWessuxKenwayErnam
      10. KenwayKenway San FranciscoMember Posts: 1,130 @@ - Legendary Achaean
        My babies only have like 40 months left on 'em :neutral_face: 

        - Limb Counter - Fracture Relapsing -
        "Honestly, I just love that it counts limbs." - Mizik Corten
      11. AradorArador Member Posts: 1,696 @@ - Legendary Achaean
        So ring up Tecton and say "There's your timeline"

        Then hide.

      12. MorthifMorthif Member Posts: 1,629 @@ - Legendary Achaean
        I think mine are in the 30s.. Come on Tecton!
      13. TreyTrey Member Posts: 4,723 @@ - Legendary Achaean
        Antonius said:
        I wouldn't be surprised if forgers weren't as interested in spending large amounts of gold and time on potentially getting top tier rapiers, considering the market for them is cutting to be cut massively after the Knight/Weaponry changes and weapon stats on forged items will all be the same anyway.
        Pretty much this. Usable armor is a hell of a lot easier to stock than usable weaponry at the moment. I am going to miss the 'gambling' aspect of current forging, but I will admit to looking forward to forging changes not only because knight changes drop at the same time, but because to restock a shop will be all of 'ok what am I short on. *forge exactly that many* alright done'.

        @Jules is still the RNGantichrist though.

        WessuxKerriaYaeJules
      14. TibithaTibitha Member Posts: 742 @@ - Legendary Achaean
        Sorry if this has been asked before, but how are the knight changes going to be affect full plate? What about existing full plates?

        I so far haven't put a single lesson in forging, though I probably should as it will be changing to Blademastery, which I'll probably need :D 

        But is forging a full plate worth it at this point?
      15. ErnamErnam Member Posts: 2,416 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean

        There have been several ideas for "new" armor fielded, none of which were implemented on Anarchaea.

        Idea's that I've heard admins actually discuss (not all guaranteed to be implemented):

        Armor with multiple pieces (individually forged)
        Artefact armor
        Armor with fixed stats
        Upgradeable, improvable armor

        "Our lives are not our own. We are bound to others, past and present. And by each crime and every kindness, we birth our future."


              Manda  |  Godzilla  |  SLC
          1. AntoniusAntonius Member Posts: 4,804 @@ - Legendary Achaean
            Probably not worth forging a full plate at this point, but it's hard to say. It will still be restricted to use by the Knight classes, but won't require you to forge it yourself to wear it. Stats will also be standardised, or at least there won't be the huge variation that there currently is. Probably better off just saving the lessons/credits for after the Knight changes.
            AddamaTrey
          2. AddamaAddama Member Posts: 947 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
            I'm mostly worried that there's no point in testing elaborate prep and kill sequences that tomorrow or next week or next month will be completely pointless if I decide to go dual blunt (spoiler alert: I am). 

            I'm also hesitant to refill my venoms or buy more seeing as I won't need them in some variable amount of time.
            ~Kresslack's obsession~
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