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Knight in a nutshell (Warning : Spoilers)

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  • AntoniusAntonius Member Posts: 4,935 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Mizik said:
    Just waiting spec balancing before going live.
    Is that confirmed? I haven't heard or read that anywhere official (i.e. in the ACC forum).

    Considering Weaponmastery is the Knight replacement for Forging, that sort of suggests we'll have to wait until the rest of the tradeskill split is ready to go. I'd be happy if that wasn't the case, but I'm not going to hold my breath.
  • CaladbolgCaladbolg Campbell County TNMember Posts: 1,126 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Antonius said:
    Mizik said:
    Just waiting spec balancing before going live.
    Is that confirmed? I haven't heard or read that anywhere official (i.e. in the ACC forum).

    Considering Weaponmastery is the Knight replacement for Forging, that sort of suggests we'll have to wait until the rest of the tradeskill split is ready to go. I'd be happy if that wasn't the case, but I'm not going to hold my breath.
    The PTR Is up.

  • AntoniusAntonius Member Posts: 4,935 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited October 2014
    @Caladbolg I assume PTR means "public test realm" (i.e. Anarchaea)?

    Not really proof of anything unfortunately, unless there's also replacements for the other tradeskills on there to test or an official statement saying "These will be going live as soon as they're ready, we won't be waiting until the other tradeskill replacements are done."

    EDIT: Basically, I want people to have reasonable expectations of when they'll see these changes live. Unless it comes from somebody like Tecton or Makarios, I'd be skeptical about any claims about when that will happen (including mine).

    It's also not currently up for me this second, Mudlet just sits there trying to connect. I'd love to log on and play around with some things, but looks like that will have to wait until tomorrow since I'm out for the day pretty soon.

  • CaladbolgCaladbolg Campbell County TNMember Posts: 1,126 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    edited October 2014
    Antonius said:
    @Caladbolg I assume PTR means "public test realm" (i.e. Anarchaea)?

    Not really proof of anything unfortunately, unless there's also replacements for the other tradeskills on there to test or an official statement saying "These will be going live as soon as they're ready, we won't be waiting until the other tradeskill replacements are done."

    It's also not currently up for me this second, Mudlet just sits there trying to connect. I'd love to log on and play around with some things, but looks like that will have to wait until tomorrow since I'm out for the day pretty soon.

    Uh yeah sorry Warcraft terms im just used to.

    But I ment that as in most games when they do a ptr (public test realm) type thing, it's because the time it takes for the people designing it to go through and test everything is huge, not to mention they miss alot of things because they are typically only a few people.

    Now not saying anything about the testers or anything of the such but generally speaking The players can generally come up with different ways to abuse x and y that the developers and testers didn't even consider.

    For instance in warcraft: Ret paladins (damage spec of that class) Were doing far to much burst damage and blowing people up in pvp to quickly. The change that was given to us was a dot (damage over time) that had to stack to get slightly more damage out of it. and the result.

    Which came from the ptr and got them le nerfed.

    Which means the -more- you test it out and the -more- feedback you give on it (honest feedback) the faster the changes can go live.
    gc.jpg 10.4K

    Lum
  • AntoniusAntonius Member Posts: 4,935 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Yes, that's all true and I'm not disagreeing. However, even if Knight changes were finished in two weeks, don't expect them to be live in two weeks. There's still all of the other classes with tradeskills that will need to be modified, and while they won't be anywhere close to Knights in terms of scope or development time, they will still take some time.
  • CynlaelCynlael Member Posts: 3,257 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    IMO, why not just have it how they are on Anarchaea right now, if the changes are ready in two weeks? (obviously a random timeframe, but still)

    In other words: Let Knights retain Forging while still getting Weaponmastery. Or allow them to forget it for a full lesson refund so they can learn Weaponmastery. New Knights can pick up both skills if they want (but default given weaponmastery as their third skill, with a message about Forging)
     -> When the tradeskill changes happen, drop it from their 'main' skills but let them keep forging if they want it (or give them a full refund to learn a different trade)

  • CaladbolgCaladbolg Campbell County TNMember Posts: 1,126 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    edited October 2014
    Antonius said:
    Yes, that's all true and I'm not disagreeing. However, even if Knight changes were finished in two weeks, don't expect them to be live in two weeks. There's still all of the other classes with tradeskills that will need to be modified, and while they won't be anywhere close to Knights in terms of scope or development time, they will still take some time.
    Because at least in theory Forging could already be fully setup to be a trade skill, Weapon changes are likely already setup, and the other classes with tradeskils, can come at a later rate because.. Sentinel/Serpent/Magi/Sylvan/Alchemist seems in a good place (at least to me) and not nearly in the position knights are currently in.

    Although don't get me wrong every class that uses weaponry will be affected by the weapon change.

    ...Of course this could just be me over hyping about knight changes coming extremely soon because I miss all my knight buddies that are dormant waiting on knight changes.

  • AradorArador Member Posts: 1,696 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Is there not still the matter of how aligned skills balance with these specialisations? Or is Devotion,  Necromancy and Runelore being stripped of certain skills and made into flavoured utility? 

  • CynlaelCynlael Member Posts: 3,257 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Well Frenzy was removed from Necromancy. That's all I saw. As well as Nausea affecting parrying.

  • AerekAerek East Tennessee, USAMember Posts: 1,818 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Haven't heard any plans to strip those skills. Go zweihander and abuse those gravehands.
    -- Grounded in but one perspective, what we perceive is an exaggeration of the truth.
  • MakariosMakarios Administrator Posts: 1,872 Achaean staff
    Necromancy has lost frenzy, yeah. Shouldn't be necessary if we get things right.
    AradorExelethril
  • AntoniusAntonius Member Posts: 4,935 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I thought Runelore was losing the stat increasing weapon runes, too? Or did that not make it in?
  • AradorArador Member Posts: 1,696 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Vivisect? (Let' be honest, nothing else in Necromancy matters as long as we have sexy sexy Vivisect)

    MishgulElazar
  • NemutaurNemutaur GermanyMember Posts: 1,068
    Arador said:
    Vivisect? (Let' be honest, nothing else in Necromancy matters as long as we have sexy sexy Vivisect)
    Vivisect will remain. Frenzy just has to go because that breaks so much stuff when you try to balance around it.
  • AradorArador Member Posts: 1,696 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Nemutaur said:
    Arador said:
    Vivisect? (Let' be honest, nothing else in Necromancy matters as long as we have sexy sexy Vivisect)
    Vivisect will remain. Frenzy just has to go because that breaks so much stuff when you try to balance around it.
    Oh I completely agree. Frenzy (while insanely fun) was more a patch fix on the current mechanics. I was a bit concerned that with the new abilities allowing multiple limb breaks, Vivisect might end up being unsuitable, but as long as you are not quad breaking and recovering balance within 4 seconds, I do not think it would be an issue. Single limb restores are short so it would not be holding down someone indefinitely should they use it coming off such a break.

    I am glad to hear it will be left in and will be interested to see many more options from the different methods on how to achieve it. Also, I am guessing here, but it looks like both Disembowel and Damnation could be a lot more interesting and viable with these builds.

  • JovoloJovolo EnglandMember Posts: 3,246 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited October 2014
    I personally don't see why Frenzy has to go (from dual cutting*). The idea behind it was fine. The 33% increase was just too much. If you put a cap on it or just lowered the % it would be a balanced ability.

    Wessux
  • AradorArador Member Posts: 1,696 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Oh also a fair point, I did not see if Dual Cutting got anything else to boost it above what it currently is,  if it is just the same as it is now, then I could see your point. 

  • ValariaValaria Member Posts: 400 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited October 2014
    I'm not experienced combatant, but in my opinion, I think twohands need more work as it is easy to cure torn tendons and so on. maybe speed up somewhat more with battlerage focus - speed.

    As is, you cannot envenom a bastard/warhammer with twohand spec. it mostly focus on breaking your humanoid body.

    2015/01/12 Tecton, the Terraformer has bestowed His divine favour upon you. It will last for approximately 1 Achaean month.
  • MakariosMakarios Administrator Posts: 1,872 Achaean staff

    Better to use the knight feedback thread.

    You'll probably want to use battlerage focus precision for building stacks on tanky opponents.

  • WessuxWessux ChattanoogaMember Posts: 517 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Jovolo said:
    I personally don't see why Frenzy has to go (from dual cutting*). The idea behind it was fine. The 33% increase was just too much. If you put a cap on it or just lowered the % it would be a balanced ability.

    Because no one likes my suggestions. :(
    Invest in a 9mm retirement plan.
  • TreyTrey Member Posts: 4,798 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Valaria said:
    I'm not experienced combatant, but in my opinion, I think twohands need more work as it is easy to cure torn tendons and so on. maybe speed up somewhat more with battlerage focus - speed.

    As is, you cannot envenom a bastard/warhammer with twohand spec. it mostly focus on breaking your humanoid body.
    Bolded is incorrect. I was dealing venoms with hew just fine, didn't test overhand/underhand or devastate though. As for the warhammer, haven't ever been able to envenom to my knowledge, but pulverise looks like it's going to blow through limbs like crazy.

  • MizikMizik Member Posts: 2,128 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    @Antonius seemed like a pretty reasonable statement for a made up one.

    sry bro
    image
    Jhui
  • JhuiJhui Member Posts: 1,958 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I think the key to this thread is that everyone sucks, or can't come across 235+ rapiers. DUAL WIELD CUTTING 100% VIABLE above that speed.

    Who wants a mustache ride? 
    image
    AerekAustere
  • AerekAerek East Tennessee, USAMember Posts: 1,818 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    That's a pretty astute statement that perhaps does frame a large portion of the debate.

    A lot of people do suck and that's complicating the conversation, but 235s can be pretty hard to come by for most players if you don't know the right people or aren't willing/able to get involved in bidding wars on Market. I don't want to make it an argument between the "haves" and the "have nots", but it's true that most of the folks who feel that knight is in a good place have been using rapiers I consider outlandishly awesome. (Mizik's set, Kadin's set, and Exelethril's sets have almost always had base stats higher than my runed stats)  I've never owned 2 235+ at the same time, and one of the big breaths of relief coming into Runewarden from Paladin was that I could take 227s, turn them into 237s, and actually fight on a serious level.

    I've always included the disclaimer that my experience comes from the perspective of a "discount knight" with no real artefacts and economy-class weapons. It's possible that the upper echelons are 100% fine, I just wouldn't know it. The weapon stats on the test server offer hope that, if 225-speed scimitars represent the new average, perhaps getting a 235-speed weapon won't be such a herculean task. That might be all it takes for my gripes with momentum-based bypasses, 3-minute limb damage decay, and requisite pre-damage for DSB to evaporate. If not, and 225 represents a shift to flat values per weapon like BM swords, with the only improvement available through artefacts, then the disparity between ground-level knight and artefacted knight may continue to be a point of contention. Time will tell.

    In the meantime, I will take the first mustache ride.
    -- Grounded in but one perspective, what we perceive is an exaggeration of the truth.
    KerriaJhuiExelethril
  • CooperCooper Member Posts: 5,322 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    For about the 12th time in the thread, the point was to show how long knight prep was and how, with good parrying and proper curing, it was next to impossible to die to dsb.

  • JhuiJhui Member Posts: 1,958 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Cooper said:
    For about the 12th time in the thread, the point was to show how long knight prep was and how, with good parrying and proper curing, it was next to impossible to die to dsb.
    Assuming torso leg leg is the only prep is the pitfall of forums.  Lrn2notsuck
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    TeshaAelios
  • CooperCooper Member Posts: 5,322 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited October 2014
    You don't comprehend the problem, and the toxicity in that post and the rest of the thread is not appreciated or warranted.

    Torso/leg/leg isn't the problem prep, though it is getting there. Much more is necessary to get a DSB off on a competent opponent.

    Take your arties off and use 70/154/227 rapiers and move down to level 90. You won't be able to 'lol dsl until they die' and you won't be able to bypass parry nearly as effectively as you do now, and you will require more prep. This is what most knights are facing when they fight. Not everyone is 20 strength with god rapiers and 7k health.

    Wessux
  • JhuiJhui Member Posts: 1,958 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Let me repeat: LEARN TO NOT SUCK.

    Fighting with 227 or lower is retarded, why would you? They're not too hard to come by.  However, they will be fixed with forging.

    The ppl complaining most likely have 235+. If they don't its like a sentinel fighting with a 230 speed axe. Who the fuck cares? Let scrubs fight scrubs and make each other feel better while the good fighters stay on top?
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    TreyTeshaAelios
  • HasarHasar Member Posts: 795 @ - Epic Achaean
    lmao

    Alcinae
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