Shared XP and Assists

Dalran

I like it, discourages LOS even more. Either you can sit LoS and hope to get a kill, or melee and be sure to get assists

Halios

Dalran said:

I like it, discourages LOS even more. Either you can sit LoS and hope to get a kill, or melee and be sure to get assists

Why discourage LOS?

Sounds like a personal bias rather than a logically sound argument.

Dalran

Well the game itself is going towards discouraging LOS, looking at all the ranged nerfs, and I may be wrong but as a general consensus most people tend to enjoy melee more than ranged. 

Halios

Dalran said:

Well the game itself is going towards discouraging LOS, looking at all the ranged nerfs, and I may be wrong but as a general consensus most people tend to enjoy melee more than ranged. 

People enjoying melee rather than ranged doesn't mean a person who snipes isn't assisting in a kill.

Dalran

I never said they aren't assisting in the kill, but going towards that, it's pretty much all reward with 0 risk since they're in a different room

Bukariin

Right because people sniping never get killed

Halios

Dalran said:

I never said they aren't assisting in the kill, but going towards that, it's pretty much all reward with 0 risk since they're in a different room

Bukariin

Dalran's arguments are as follows:

"The game itself" doesn't like LOS, so people shouldn't be rewarded for participating in LOS combat.
"A general consensus of most people" enjoy melee combat, so they should be rewarded for it.
Sniping has "zero risk" because while you're sniping you're not going to be killed via sniping.

Pretty much all of this is unsupported by even a whiff of evidence.

Iuneos

1) nerfs to doppie, cata, and choke
2) everyone hates naga/soulspear
3) example: Mycen

Dalran

Where's all this hate coming from? I'm a sniper I die a lot less than other people on my team, In a melee battle. Remember it wasn't even me who said LOS people shouldn't get assists, I just said that I agree/liked the idea

Bukariin

Dalran said:

Where's all this hate coming from? I'm a sniper I die a lot less than other people on my team, In a melee battle. Remember it wasn't even me who said LOS people shouldn't get assists, I just said that I agree/liked the idea

And I asked why because it made no sense to me, and even after you've explained why you feel that way it still makes no sense to me.

Participating in combat is participating in combat whether you're sniping or warping.  And putting yourself at risk of dying to chokes and arrows is still putting yourself at risk of dying.

Vaehl

Risk vs reward for sniping is really unbalanced. You shouldn't be able to get some of the experience if you're 3 rooms from a melee shooting/spearing/choking. And I guess we can amend it so that if the killer is in the room with the target, the LoSers don't get an assist.

Getting guaranteed experience while extremely safe is not going to promote fun combat.

Herenicus

I don't see why killing in a gank squad of melee is significantly more risky than LOS.

Edit: It seems very situation specific. 

Bukariin

I don't get why Vaehl insists that participating in combat is ever "extremely safe" even if you're three rooms away from your targets.  Guess what?  If you can hit them, they can (almost certainly) hit you back.

Vaehl

I don't think you've participated in any significant melees if you think that people will take time out of the 4v4 in melee to LoS at someone 3 rooms away, who probably could just walk out.

Mishgul

Psh. Antidas always primary target when i played.

Shirszae

Either everything that damages/heals is included on the shared exp thingie, or nothing is. This system would gauge ASSISTANCE, not how much fun the target is having while dying. Pretending otherwise is just silly.

Vaehl

If you gain guaranteed experience while being almost completely safe I don't see why anyone with LoS would melee unless they like dying or something. As I said before this isn't a nerf to assistance in ranged combat, just if the victim was in the room with the killer.

And if it's all or nothing then why are non party members being excluded when they can make relevant contributions? Since the fun for the victim doesn't matter.

Zeon

Strata said:

Sobriquet said:

Wouldn't this just encourage more teaming outside of raid situations?

What @Nim said...

My 2c: 1v1 is dead, so it doesn't matter. Oh and here's a text game for ya: ssh narnia0@narnia.labs.overthewire.org (see the website for details).

Should really be bandit first. I imagine Narnia is a little much for most people just starting out.

Silas

I like @Vaehl's idea if only because of the number of rustled jimmies in this thread.

Siduri

I don't support the LoS not counting as assist idea.
I  am -not- safe when sniping, I die often, and most of the time I shoot 5+ lupine arrows up a raider's ass, and it happens that one of our melee fighters lands a hit that finishes him up. Guess what? I'm sure I caused 5k+ damage, and didn't get a single XP point. Then I take a soulspear and an arrow (because, guess what? I'm in LoS too!) and I'm dead.
Result: Lost 3% XP, gained none.

Vaehl

That's definitely due to a lack of awareness, no offense. If you got LoS'd back it means you stayed too long after the melee. Serpent can easily be played to get snipe kills and out see: Merador's >3 and Mycen's >2 kdr as serpent snipers. 

Daslin

I can easily be 2-3 rooms out, and still be targeted first. Moment I snipe, target changes to Daslin, or the moment they enter with melee, daslin is target, daslin dead. move on.

Jovolo

You and other snipe bots sometimes dying out of a lack of awareness isn't a good reason to provide experience for snagging a snipe on someone. It just gives a further incentive for people to leave a room and range, or to jump into other fights for that juicy experience with no reprisal. It isn't something we should encourage.

Amusing who all thinks that snipe assists should give exp too.

Amarillys

I think snipe assists should give exp too. I am not even a sniper/combatant. If someone opts to fight, there is always risk, therefore there should be reward. I get attacked for displacing. I'm not exactly saying I should get experience for that, but if something that can be done entirely out of line of sight gets attacked, I can't imagine how much someone who is in line of sight gets it. So yeah, definitely arrows should get experience.

Iuneos

Amarillys said:

I am not even a sniper/combatant. 

Cooper

The argument against snipers not getting xp is pretty poor.

They already get a lot of kills because of the high damage of snipe.

It is, in nearly every situation, the best thing their class can do in order to help kill someone in raids/medium-large group skirmishes.

The damage and affliction snipe does is very, very beneficial in killing someone.

Why should someone in "less danger" not get shared experience? Just because someone is in the room as the target doesn't mean they are in any more danger in a lot of situations.

The entire point of shared xp is to give everyone who helps kill a person experience. If you want to restrict who gets shared experience, break it down into people who didn't add to the kill; because that's what matters - killing the person.

Austere

Sorry,  with @Cooper‌ on this one.  Serpents should have to share their xp with the group too. 

Bukariin

For that matter let's remove shared XP gain from Serpents entirely since they can always phase away, and from anybody with Earrings because they can Earring away.  Too safe, they shouldn't get shared XP.

Nim

Too unscientific.

Let's hold off on giving anyone EXP for killing people until they actually die. You can say it's risky all you want but if they survive, obviously the risk was either zero to begin with or was mitigated down to zero anyway.