What Happened To You Today?

Gribbit

I have a lyre. If you group pk a ton against huge groups, such as Cyrene and Eleusis, it is an important survival item. It takes 25 days of full renown to get or less if you save the credits and buy it from someone that has a giftbox or such. I really do not know what solution is, but nerfing survival any more will make it so bigger group will always triumph over smaller group which is really not that interesting or fun for any side other the huge zerg side.

Archaeon

gooooooood

Caelan

spend more, pleebs.

Atalkez

I actually don't like using my lyre at all in group fights. It almost always gets me killed. I will use WoR/Branch liberally, that's what they're there for.

I'm also not a fan of nerfing survival more than we have already. It's extremely difficult to actually survive an engagement when you're the primary target without them anymore. Need branch/wor to stop the afflictions and damage, siren song so I can get out of room hinder. Otherwise you just get melted because nothing in the game can tank 8 people for longer than a few seconds. Let alone 15.

The disparity becomes obvious when you have a team that has all of those tools against a team that doesn't, and it's the same concept that saw the starburst nerfs a few years ago, plus the reincarnation nerfs. Ashtan won for real life years almost entirely because they simply had more lives to throw at you than you did them.

Eurice

What else am I supposed to do against a group that seamlessly traverses into a hard lock with essentially no wasted afflictions across the 6+ people participating in it? If I don't lyre in the 1.5s window I get to do it, I am essentially dead with zero recourse to contribute to the fight.

Lyre buys me and my team precious seconds mid-zerg to turn things around. The chief responsibility of the person getting primaried in a group fight is to live for as long as they can. If you're bolting out of the room early, you're making them switch targets to one of your allies instead which means they're progressing and you're progressing less minus one person.

Every wasted second of people bouncing off prismatic is more momentum for the rest of my team. I am going to hammer lyre as much as I can. I am going to illusion myself hammering lyre. I am going to illusion others hammering lyre. If lyre gets deleted for some ungodly reason, I am going to go Magi or Depthswalker or any other class that has an equivalent skill.

It is the only answer to such impossibly lethal group combat strategies, which is a natural consequence of the automation arms rush that is happening in recent years. Half of 1v1 PvP is already essentially PvE with how many people have one button aliases for things these days. I wouldn't be surprised if 2022 involves something like KILL getting some kind of intelligent PvP kill route progression just to even the gap between people with the scripts and without them at this point.

Sobriquet

Ignore Adrik, Eurice. He spams lyre as much as the next person and given they've had their Auto systems butchered by the Admin he needs to find something to focus his frustration towards. Apparently, complaining about the strength of the fighters in the city he got kicked out from, is the way to do it.

Archaeon

There's a definite disparity in between the skill, investment, and ability of our midbies vs your midbies. It's nothing to complain about, though, rather its something to work on and progress and have fun with. I always approach these fights as learning opportunities, but people do tend to get discouraged when it seems like we just kind of roll in and get stomped.

Obviously its hard to be logical in the moment, and when you're the one getting shit on by people you perceive as only being able to survive based on the amount of stuff they're capable of spamming at themselves at once you're going to get upset about it. The solution clearly is not to nerf these, as WOR has already gotten a nerf and lyre is almost a death sentence if you are fighting a group with a dragon or classes that can give afflictions through it.

Long story short, Hashan is lame and stupid and Eleusis is noble, proud, and awesome.

Sobriquet

I agree with all of the above, especially the last bit.

I used to have a lyre, struggled to see the benefit of it as I was mostly just in big group fights. Traded it in and haven't regretted it tbh

Eurice

The point of a lyre is that when it isn't countered, it is usually around an 8 second increase in your expected survival time when being primaried. That equates to around about 2 extra attacks per person in your entire team being dished out to the enemy team that they're not dishing out on you. In a group of 10 people, strumming lyre and holding on gives your team nearly twenty extra attacks over the other one. Just one person doing that can be enough to turn the tide of a battle.

If they do circumvent it with blast or heartseed or anything else, they're still taking slightly longer to kill you than they would have before, and that matters a lot.

Defensive play is huge in group fights sometimes.

Farrah

I'm surprised no one has bothered mentioning that a very significant portion of Eleusis innately has lyre since it's one of their factional abilities. They don't even need the artefact. They also have the best lyre counter in the game imo (heartseed goes through lyre and kills through burst).

It's actually very viable these days to get these survival tools IG, though, with renown. So it's not so much a "spend moar" issue. And people tend to over-emphasize their losses and be negative but I'm sure we've gotten stomped just as much.

Kshavatra

Other than stacking tons of WoR and uneven class access to lyre counters (mostly for 1v1) I think these are fine and people just naturally complain about things they lose to

Eg. Ree forestal classes OP

Saonji

WoR/Lyre is whatever in groups.

In 1v1 they're fucking stupid though, anyone who WoR's 1v1 should be stabbed in the neck.

Also nerf forestal classes

Dynos

Totally agree that lyre should be kept as is, as it's not difficult to work around with a small amount of effort with a reflex to do something different- switch target, switch attack, etc

That said, not sure how many realize it since it's not the best card description but, there's also the pretty accessable Aringar card that also breaks lyre like dragon blast. It's 4 dragon blasts in a card to honor the first dude to get dragon. It's almost as good as having a dragon since a serpent with card can evade 99% of room hinder to hop out to blast and doesn't need to summon breath between uses. The balance of this is only a handful of charges.

Guess I'm saying is there's decent ways around lyre with a little bit of effort in groups... And 1v1 lyre should just not be a thing. Consider it them saying you won if they do.

Grandue

The golden days when no one had become a dragon and it was this mystical, unimaginable achievement and we watched in anticipation as he got closer and closer to getting it.

I can’t help but look back at that time before multi-class houses where guilds had real identities with nostalgia.

Calira

The strength of prismatic barriers is not a problem. Serverside separators letting you keep one up while taking one of each curative every 3-4 seconds is a problem, in 1v1 especially. I can't fathom Heartseed being considered a good counter to lyre when it can be cured without dropping the barrier, unless I'm unaware of some additional mechanic that keeps you from applying restoration within 6 seconds of getting it. Imo, lyres should stall your demise, not reverse it.

Iaxus

I would like to second Saonji saying WoR/Lyre/etc in 1v1 is stupid and you're stupid if you do it.

Otherwise, in group lyre is definitely fine, and WoR/branch is eh. At least they have a cooldown. I don't see a reason to complain there.

Gribbit

@Calira Good defensive play should reverse your demise and lyre can be a part of it under certain circumstances. As far as I am aware any application or cure breaks lyre on the strummers part. So hearseed is a great counter because they have to apply torso or die. So if someone is being dogpiled enough that they feel the need to bunker, one lyre break can be their demise.

Saonji

@Gribbit

queue addclear eqbal apply restoration to torso/strum lyre. Next question.

Personally I've had a lyre since about September of last year. I've literally never used it 1v1, and in group I think I only used it because Targ had like 7 people who would hit into it over and over and over again, until Astarod or Kez called a new target.

Calira

@Gribbit Wait until you have EQ back, break the barrier by applying the salve and other cures, and immediately strum the lyre again, all with command separators so there isn't a gap where the barrier is down. Heartseed takes 10 or 11 seconds, so even if it's cast the instant after you strum, you can wait to recover EQ, apply the salve, strum, and be cured with plenty of time to spare. Of course, if a dragon blasts it away, you can just start curing instantly and Heartseed is moot then, too.

Kresslack

What is this trend where every thread that is supposed to be wholesome just gets railroaded by rants every day? Can we contain this stuff to the actual Sewers so people can post their feel goods and we can remember there ARE good parts of this game that we all apparently still enjoy and keep playing for?

Kshavatra

This thread has always contained partially-obscured rants, but I think the recent trend is mostly the age-old Complaining About Things I Don't Like Until They're Nerfed™ since that had some success with theft

Ryssa

I logged in just to do some exploring, then suddenly, big steps forward, different stuffs, and new tasks. Things are never boring around @Gaia @Adrik @Aelyn and @Synthus

Just gotta keep from getting overwhelmed with it all, heh.

Synthus

Captain's Log - 1st of Mayan, 864:

I was given a gift today!

Captain's Log - Supplemental:

O NO

Gaia

Don’t look a gift curse in the mouth!

Ilsefi

I am now a big shiny golden dragon!

97 per cent of my journey was accomplished sans arties. Thanks to all my peeps for everything - you know who you are.

Prythe

@Grandue Amen!

@Ilsefi Well done!

Zulah

Ow... I should not have followed him into that room.

Sobriquet

Sobby turned 500. We had a party. There was food, drink, song, jokes, stories and a game of "dodge the holobomb" with Lady P. I then said I missed puppet obliterate, so she blew someone up for me.

Best text birthday ever.

PS - Sorry Mezghar

PPS - Thanks for trying Tahquil, pass on my best to you know who.

Goethe

Pandora cut Ashtan story time short for your birthday, but Goethe won the contest with me scrambling to write a fairy tale on the spot so I can't complain too much. Shorter timeframe, less competition 😬

Ognog

As you point an elemental staff at a mercenary guard, a scintilla of bright, burning light shoots out, striking him with focused elemental power.

A nearly invisible magical shield forms around a mercenary guard.

A mercenary guard says, "Can it get any colder?"

A mercenary guard shivers violently.

Dagger in hand, a mercenary guard lunges towards you and carves a gaping wound into your chest.

As you point an elemental staff at a mercenary guard, a scintilla of bright, burning light shoots out, striking him with focused elemental power.

At your command, a crystalline golem stomps over to a mercenary guard and wraps him in a tight embrace, squeezing the life from him.

You have scored a CRUSHING CRITICAL hit!

A mercenary guard takes a step, falters, and tumbles to the ground.

You have slain a mercenary guard, retrieving the corpse.

Nothing like a little small talk to fill the awkward pauses mid fight.