I appreciate the issue behind this idea, which is to make it easier for newer players to get immersed into the game by interaction with other willing players.
That being said, I don't think this is the way to do it. The main charm of Achaea in general is that it is (meant to be) a roleplay-intensive environment. Something @Carmain is fond of saying is that roleplay isn't an instance - it is all the time. When you are logged into your character, you should be roleplaying. Sure, that's not to say everyone does it all the time, but that is the standard you want to be enforcing.
I heavily dislike the implication that there will essentially be an admin-sanctioned RPON/RPOFF mode. It just further drives a wedge between the 'RP' and 'non-RP' people. As others have said, what is RP anyway? Is it just special events like rituals or tea parties where people suddenly decide to start using special emotes? What about the rest of the time, aren't you roleplaying too? Do you need to use special emotes to -be- roleplaying? What about the people that have it off all the time - does that automatically mean they're not worth interacting with?
Just a couple points.
Achaea is not a roleplay-mandated environment. People are free to basically not RP - that's fine. It's not interesting to some people just like PK isn't interesting to some people. We just don't want people interrupting other peoples' immersion by talking about basketball or something in public spaces/channels. It makes no difference to me whether people have fun PKing, hunting, RPing, crafting, chatting, being political or whatever - I just want them to have fun and hopefully add to the "net fun" of everyone else.
I don't see special emotes as being a single bit more "RP" than standard emotes fwiw. They may be more interesting/more complete descriptions of what someone is doing, but that doesn't make it better RP to my mind, any more than flowery writing is inherently superior to or "more real" than simpler Hemingway-esque writing.
I like it. Maybe similar to SPARWHO, RPWHO could list those interested and you'd maybe have to remember to turn it back on after leaving realms and returning.
This might set a dangerous trend of flags, such as flagging for PvP ala WoW. Though... hey, that wouldn't be so bad! Kinda sick of getting killed today.
Being logged in, in and of itself, should already signify a willingness and readiness to roleplay. I mean... it's a roleplaying game... Might be excusable for newer players to the mud to not really understand that, but... I mean... that's the whole point of the game.
I'm just old. And crotchety. And dammit kids, get off my lawn already! *shakes cane in the air*
Daklore has a point, I personally thing the flag for rp will make people feel that if there not flagged for rp they don't have to rp at all.
but on the other hand I think the point of achaea is what you make of it.
if you want to play achaea to kill people Achaea is a pk game, with other elements (like rp)
if you want to roleplay on achaea it's a roleplay game with other elements (like pk)
if you want to use it for a chatroom, then it's a chatroom game with other elements (like dying to hunger)
And if you want to type out sexual things to other people inside a house with a phased serpent watching and writing everything down in a little black notepad.. then well.. it's that too.
Can we not just have a section of the forum dedicated to discussing and planning IC events? An RP flag sounds like a bad idea for reasons previously stated, most eloquently by Iocun, and an RP ad board sounds like it would do the same thing by giving the impression that people who aren't advertising for RP can be as OOC as they want, like they would be in similar, more casual games.
Roleplay in Achaea is at its best when it happens spontaneously and people go with the flow. Both these ideas seem counter productive to that. Not a fan.
Roleplay in Achaea is at its best when it happens spontaneously and people go with the flow. Both these ideas seem counter productive to that. Not a fan.
Although I get that there's this thought that not joining RPWHO would say "I'm OOC right now" (I feel it's very unsubstantiated, comparing it to how SPARWHO does not particularly prevent people from sparring without joining SPARWHO, but I get that there's a boolean nature to it), I don't get why adding this will suddenly prevent people from roleplaying spontaneously.
Will all of you stubbornly decide that unless you and everyone else involved is in this list, you just aren't going to roleplay with them? Furthermore, will you refuse to roleplay spontaneously anymore?
Honestly, if this feature is so wildly successful that it literally overwrites the current culture of roleplay, I say that's even more reason to add it in, since that would likely require a lot of people having a lot of fun with it before that would happen, and that sounds like a positive thing to me.
More likely, it will not completely overwrite the current roleplaying structure. At best, it will likely end up being a tool that could add interaction that otherwise currently doesn't exist. If people misuse it, then the administration will probably realize it was a failure and delete it. At worst, they won't, but you will probably continue being able to do whatever it is you currently do in Achaea anyway.
I appreciate the issue behind this idea, which is to make it easier for newer players to get immersed into the game by interaction with other willing players.
That being said, I don't think this is the way to do it. The main charm of Achaea in general is that it is (meant to be) a roleplay-intensive environment. Something @Carmain is fond of saying is that roleplay isn't an instance - it is all the time. When you are logged into your character, you should be roleplaying. Sure, that's not to say everyone does it all the time, but that is the standard you want to be enforcing.
I heavily dislike the implication that there will essentially be an admin-sanctioned RPON/RPOFF mode. It just further drives a wedge between the 'RP' and 'non-RP' people. As others have said, what is RP anyway? Is it just special events like rituals or tea parties where people suddenly decide to start using special emotes? What about the rest of the time, aren't you roleplaying too? Do you need to use special emotes to -be- roleplaying? What about the people that have it off all the time - does that automatically mean they're not worth interacting with?
Just a couple points.
Achaea is not a roleplay-mandated environment. People are free to basically not RP - that's fine. It's not interesting to some people just like PK isn't interesting to some people. We just don't want people interrupting other peoples' immersion by talking about basketball or something in public spaces/channels. It makes no difference to me whether people have fun PKing, hunting, RPing, crafting, chatting, being political or whatever - I just want them to have fun and hopefully add to the "net fun" of everyone else.
I don't see special emotes as being a single bit more "RP" than standard emotes fwiw. They may be more interesting/more complete descriptions of what someone is doing, but that doesn't make it better RP to my mind, any more than flowery writing is inherently superior to or "more real" than simpler Hemingway-esque writing.
He'd come to Cyrene for cupcakes, his thick, scaled tail twitching
lazily to and fro. He'd been wandering aimlessly from the Delos artefact
markets the way non-com credit whores are wont to do, when the thought struck him. Cupcakes. Cupcakes would
go just fine with this new lifevision mask and flower pot, the Xoran
thought.
Snow. A blizzard. He trudged through the ruins of
Centre Crossing, reduced to rubble yet again by restless warrior
savages from the Bastion of the North, eager to plunder Cyrene's famed
snowglobe artefacts, a technology the savages had tried, but failed to emulate. Just then a soft, willowy voice with a velvety timbre called
out "Yo! Want some pie? It's going to decay soon". It occurred to
the Xoran that he'd been wise to choose the flower pot over spectacles of whitesight after all. The graceful dwarf handed him a thick slice of blackbird pie and downed a shot of warm brandy, daintily picking bits of pie from her beard with an aristocratic lack of self-consciousness. Let Ashtan come, he thought, I have this flower pot, and it resets.
Roleplay in Achaea is at its best when it happens spontaneously and people go with the flow. Both these ideas seem counter productive to that. Not a fan.
Although I get that there's this thought that not joining RPWHO would say "I'm OOC right now" (I feel it's very unsubstantiated, comparing it to how SPARWHO does not particularly prevent people from sparring without joining SPARWHO, but I get that there's a boolean nature to it), I don't get why adding this will suddenly prevent people from roleplaying spontaneously.
Will all of you stubbornly decide that unless you and everyone else involved is in this list, you just aren't going to roleplay with them? Furthermore, will you refuse to roleplay spontaneously anymore?
Honestly, if this feature is so wildly successful that it literally overwrites the current culture of roleplay, I say that's even more reason to add it in, since that would likely require a lot of people having a lot of fun with it before that would happen, and that sounds like a positive thing to me.
More likely, it will not completely overwrite the current roleplaying structure. At best, it will likely end up being a tool that could add interaction that otherwise currently doesn't exist. If people misuse it, then the administration will probably realize it was a failure and delete it. At worst, they won't, but you will probably continue being able to do whatever it is you currently do in Achaea anyway.
It's about the mindset it encourages. If you have an 'RP on' flag, you're advertising to new players that you're only really RPing when you toggle it on. Most new players will come from much more casual games, where OOC is tolerated; adding a flag like this is very likely to reinforce that sort of mindset in new players, which is bad for the long term direction of the game.
Roleplay in Achaea is at its best when it happens spontaneously and people go with the flow. Both these ideas seem counter productive to that. Not a fan.
Although I get that there's this thought that not joining RPWHO would say "I'm OOC right now" (I feel it's very unsubstantiated, comparing it to how SPARWHO does not particularly prevent people from sparring without joining SPARWHO, but I get that there's a boolean nature to it), I don't get why adding this will suddenly prevent people from roleplaying spontaneously.
Will all of you stubbornly decide that unless you and everyone else involved is in this list, you just aren't going to roleplay with them? Furthermore, will you refuse to roleplay spontaneously anymore?
Honestly, if this feature is so wildly successful that it literally overwrites the current culture of roleplay, I say that's even more reason to add it in, since that would likely require a lot of people having a lot of fun with it before that would happen, and that sounds like a positive thing to me.
More likely, it will not completely overwrite the current roleplaying structure. At best, it will likely end up being a tool that could add interaction that otherwise currently doesn't exist. If people misuse it, then the administration will probably realize it was a failure and delete it. At worst, they won't, but you will probably continue being able to do whatever it is you currently do in Achaea anyway.
It's about the mindset it encourages. If you have an 'RP on' flag, you're advertising to new players that you're only really RPing when you toggle it on. Most new players will come from much more casual games, where OOC is tolerated; adding a flag like this is very likely to reinforce that sort of mindset in new players, which is bad for the long term direction of the game.
Easily solved with something like adding a task that says "type HELP RPLIST," and then in HELP RPLIST something that explains the command, and explains that you are always IC even if you are not on the list. Bam, problem solved.
I mean, newbies sometimes come in thinking they can talk about computers or microwave ovens in public channels, and then they are quickly pointed to HELP INSANITY, and usually go "oh, okay!"
In other words, you're right that just adding this command without any explanation from anyone could lead someone to think that not using it means you're OOC. That's a valid assumption as any other (for example, that it's used to get mudsex, that it's used to get Gods to RP with you via denizens, that it's used to play roleplaying games within Achaea, like some sort of RP-in-RP thing (i would so do that)), and it's important to realize that in order to know what expectations need to be set.
But saying that it should not be added because people can take it the wrong way means we shouldn't add PVP commands because people might assume this is some crazy senseless PVP game where you just go around killing whoever you want, whenever you want, however many times you want.
Roleplay in Achaea is at its best when it happens spontaneously and people go with the flow. Both these ideas seem counter productive to that. Not a fan.
Although I get that there's this thought that not joining RPWHO would say "I'm OOC right now" (I feel it's very unsubstantiated, comparing it to how SPARWHO does not particularly prevent people from sparring without joining SPARWHO, but I get that there's a boolean nature to it), I don't get why adding this will suddenly prevent people from roleplaying spontaneously.
Will all of you stubbornly decide that unless you and everyone else involved is in this list, you just aren't going to roleplay with them? Furthermore, will you refuse to roleplay spontaneously anymore?
Honestly, if this feature is so wildly successful that it literally overwrites the current culture of roleplay, I say that's even more reason to add it in, since that would likely require a lot of people having a lot of fun with it before that would happen, and that sounds like a positive thing to me.
More likely, it will not completely overwrite the current roleplaying structure. At best, it will likely end up being a tool that could add interaction that otherwise currently doesn't exist. If people misuse it, then the administration will probably realize it was a failure and delete it. At worst, they won't, but you will probably continue being able to do whatever it is you currently do in Achaea anyway.
I think that no matter what was implemented, I can pretty much guarantee it's not going to do any overwriting of RP culture in any major way. At best it would be another incremental addition that hopefully nudges things in the right direction.
Both ideas proposed just seem really jarring to me, but I think I see the problem that you're trying to address and I don't see a better way of addressing them off the top of my head.
Whalos Voronica, Herald of Redemption is roleplaying here. He wields a Deucalic mace in his left hand and a pallid gemstone in his right. His face is partially concealed beneath a raised hood. Bindee Faelithar is roleplaying here. She wields a sapphire-inlaid shield in her left hand and a silver staff of the elements in her right. The Green Dragon Carina's imposing form looms.
Bindee nods emphatically at Whalos.
Bindee Faelithar says with a husky voice, "I will see what I can do."
why is he wielding a gemstone?
config rp on
You are now playing an in-character role. Good luck!
Whalos (RP) tells you, "Ah brother, there is a strange gem here with eldritch markings."
You tell Whalos Voronica, Herald of Redemption, "Is it karma?"
(The Midnight Crew): Mathewy says, "Did you hear about justin beiber."
(The Midnight Crew): Bronko, "Eff justin beiber and his hairy gf."
Whalos (RP) tells you, "It resists our ritual cleansing efforts and has the telltale signs of karmic distortion, yes. Kesha says the unreadable writing is probably Aldar. It also bears the mark of spear and crown.
(The Midnight Crew): Matthewy says, "DONT U DARE TALK ABOUT SELENA GOMEZ LIKE THAT."
You tell Whalos Voronica, Herald of Redemption, "You mean.."
Whalos (RP) tells you, "Yes. Enheduanna may be returning."
(The Midnight Crew): Bleekar says, "Heard she a man irl."
You tell Whalos Voronica, Herald of Redemption, "The taint is stronger than we thought possible. Are the Jaruvians in danger?"
Kazoo (not RPing) tells you, "Gonna do endless corridor finally. You in?"
Whalos (RP) tells you, "If we do not find a way to deactivate it, all of Smartogas may be in grave danger."
You tell Kazoo, Sentinel Huripari, "Not now."
Kazoo (not RPing) tells you, "Gdi are you rping again."
Tauron (RP) tells you, "So I have a hot load of obsidian I need to get off my hands. I heard you are into that sort of thing."
Whalos (RP) tells you, "The immediate area will require purifying but the Dawnblade reports that there does not appear to be any ill effect on the surrounding locales. I shall ask Bindee to draw her warding enchantments in the meantime."
You tell Tauron Encori'os, Wild Gypsy, "A fie on you, wretched pirate! I'll not hear of your sullied stolen wares today."
Tauron (RP) tells you, "Okay, geez."
You tell Whalos Voronica, Herald of Redemption, "Alright. Will that hold?"
Whalos (RP) tells you, "Alert the Luminai. We will need their help to stem this wickedness."
You tell Whalos Voronica, Herald of Redemption, "Yes, Herald."
Tauron (not RPing) tells you, "Crap I mixed you up with Gerald my bad lol"
(The Midnight Crew): Dunnce says, "Lol."
You tell Lord Bleekar Rian, Eminent Master, "Lord Bleekar, the Herald requested that I ask for Luminai assistance with a resurgence of the chaotic taint in the Mhojave. He has urgent need of your technicians and researchers."
Bleekar (not RPing) tells you, "I'm not RPing right now."
(The Midnight Crew): Matthewy says, "#rude."
You tell Lord Bleekar Rian, Eminent Master, "But Lord Whalos says Smartogas could be destroyed if we do nothing!"
(The Midnight Crew): Bronko says, "Why are the cardinals sucking so much cock today."
Bleekar (not RPing) tells you, "Look, i got a screamin baby on my lap and the wife is asking me about stuff on my phone, i dont need this right now. I'm just logged in to autoforge atm."
Leona arrives from the west.
Bleekar (not RPing) tells you, "Can't you read the tag?"
Citizen Rank RP? CT Class
------- ---- --- -- ----
Dragoom Van Smellsing, Iron Lisp 1 Off On Monk
Oathsworn Mellan 1 Off On Bard
Faithchaser Miraculo 1 Off On Priest
Carina Bayt Al-Azhan, Kefir Priestess 4 Off On Dragon (Priest)
Soldier Kiro 2 Off On Runewarden (Dragon)
Leona, of Smartogas 1 On On Magi
Lord Bleekar Rian, Eminent Master 5 Off On Dragon (Runewarden)
Jellios Azon, The Argent Sand 2 Off On Runewarden
Bindee Faelithar 2 On On Magi
Whalos Voronica, Herald of Redemption 3 On On Priest
Oops my bad
You tell Whalos Voronica, Herald of Redemption, "He is busy."
Whalos (RP) tells you, "Busy with what? Does "destruction of our way of life" mean nothing to him?"
Leona (RP) tells you, "Hey, wanna RP?"
Leona shakes her head, her lovely green-gold eyes alive with mirth and admiration. Her quiet laugh tinkles sweetly like silver bells in the breeze on an moonlit autumnal evening as she turns towards you expectantly.
config rp off
You are no longer flagged as available for roleplay.
Whalos gives you a pained sigh.
Kazoo (not RPing) tells you, "Yay."
Can we pls not do it this way
A frenzied cleric screams, "Like more than one halo!"
I always thought achaea should try to implement some kind of group based event system. Like randomized tasks (from a predetermined list) set to houses and cities monthly/yearly. Maybe some kind of bulletin board in town squares for individuals/groups to sign up for smaller tasks like clearing a denizen town from some kind of pest, maybe a dungeon to explore/etc.
My initial reaction is that I am against this for most of the reasons that people are already. Like Iocun/Greys, I feel that I am in the realms pretty strictly to RP, even if it's not top notch highly involved and perhaps just on a family clan, I'm still here for that.
On the flip side, when I was the MoW of Cyrene... people standing around who I can think can actively help me defend the city give me a "tell rinzai on my cell phone KEKEKEKEKEKE" irritate the hell out of me because I kind of expect (foolishly I know) that everyone in the realms is here in a similar mindset/capacity that I am. I don't think this flag would help that out though.
I believe that I would prefer things as is, instead of introducing a mechanism for someone to justify insanity.
Other people have said it better, but I'm also not a fan of the proposal. I take the point that Achaea bans OOC, but doesn't enforce RP, but it does still create the impression that RP is somehow optional (like being open PK) to the game instead of being at its core (and Achaea's only USP in terms of the depth and flexibility available). I also don't think it would help, and just creates a new set of problems. It makes people feel entitled to RP - if I'm sitting somewhere with my RP flag on, and a newbie siren decides to RP sexytime with me, I have zero interest in that. Similarly, I doubt I would be able to muster up the energy to RP out a special snowflake newbie who wants to RP about being LORD OF FIRE. People are still going to maintain their choice in responding to RP with or without the flag on, but it's going to frustrate people even more if they get knocked back by someone with the flag up.
I think people are genuinely better directed to existing in-game structures - quoting yourself is obnoxious, but I'll do it anyway. From the thread that prompted the proposal:
"It's worth remembering as well that the more established players who you're going to get the best RP with see a lot of new characters come and go. It's a real decision who you put your time into sometimes. The best way for you to get into RP is to show that you're a sticker, someone who's going to be interesting and useful as time goes on. Join a House, join a city, do your reqs, ask secretaries/leaders if you can help them with anything. Bash up to a respectable level. Ask if you can aide to a department. If you can't, ask the aides if you can help. Do a sermon, write a journal. Do some public RP that you don't need anyone else with and see if you can drag anyone into it. (Something small and in keeping with the norms of your orgs, no special snowflake stuff)."
"Bash up to a respectable level." That is the problem. What constitutes a respectable level? If they are 3450% or my level, I doubt if they are the least bit interested in me. I've been ignored in raids, because I am 0% to the raiders. I don't really want to talk to yet another person who tells me about pygmy kidnappings, so I can't blame the raiders for not wanting to talk to me.
When you're low leveled and low might, PKers and raiders are going to ignore you as long as they're busy with PK/raiding stuff. Some are probably willing to talk to you when they're not busy fighting, but that particular group is probably the least social towards novice players in general. To answer your question, level 80 is considered "standard" in today's Achaea.
Your experience with the game is only going to improve as you learn the game and develop your character. Think about it like this: You're just starting a new job/new school/whatever. Do you expect to go in on day 1 and have tons of people buddying up to you? Probably not. People are standoffish at first but warm up to you after a while.
I don't think these particular problems are something that would be "solved" by any sort of "RPwho". It's just a reflection of how the player base and society works. People generally are more willing to interact with players in the game that they respect, so the more you accomplish, the deeper your interactions with others is probably going to be. This doesn't mean you have to be super-good at the game overnight, but if you maintain a positive interest in the game and interacting with others over the long-term, people will notice and take interest in you.
Personally, anyone below level 60 just doesn't look serious to me, and anyone 70 and over looks like they're going to stick around. Otherwise, you looka bit like a throwaway character. The effort involved in doing that is fairly minimal and ensures that you have to access to at least one decent skill. Generally, you're good enough to have in (at least a defensive) raid group then if you know your basics. You'd be surprised how effective spamming your main bashing attack or something else useful can be if you're in a decent sized group.
I'm not saying you have to be artifacted or even tri-trans, just that a certain level of investment in bashing up to a level where your credits have given you access to at least the main skills in one tree of your skillset means that you look serious. Like someone who wants to play the character instead of having just turned up and seeing if people are likely to adopt you as their buddy.
I can understand the desire to make Achaea more attractive to new players, but honestly I don't think this is the way to do that. If someone is "looking for roleplay," it abounds at every turn in Achaea. Making players have to do less to find or engage in it makes no sense to me. In short, the best roleplayed experiences are those that are actively sought through roleplay itself, not ads or flags, which feel a lot like Achaea's lowering its expectations rather than easing a transition into a realm itself.
The lack of appropriate #matthewy on those OOC clans makes this otherwise-accurate portrayal altogether unrealistic, Whalos.
More and more convinced that the only way to deal with this problem for newbies is to just somehow encourage existing players to be nicer and do more roleplaying/convene people together including newbies. I do think adding the city hangouts to landmarks is a passive, low-stakes way to help a newbie out. Granted, they may cruise on in and find someone testing out aliases on someone else/AFKing instead of actively roleplaying. But they are more likely to find roleplay at Farrier's while we are in between getting smashed by Ashtan than they are bumping around Shornwall by themselves or something, so it couldn't hurt.
@Vansittart I understand your position, but you have to understand that it is hard for players new to the game to understand. People keep saying this game is great, so do I just take your word for it?
Achaea is not a roleplay-mandated environment. People are free to basically not RP - that's fine. It's not interesting to some people just like PK isn't interesting to some people. We just don't want people interrupting other peoples' immersion by talking about basketball or something in public spaces/channels. It makes no difference to me whether people have fun PKing, hunting, RPing, crafting, chatting, being political or whatever - I just want them to have fun and hopefully add to the "net fun" of everyone else.
I don't see special emotes as being a single bit more "RP" than standard emotes fwiw. They may be more interesting/more complete descriptions of what someone is doing, but that doesn't make it better RP to my mind, any more than flowery writing is inherently superior to or "more real" than simpler Hemingway-esque writing.
15.6 ROLEPLAYING and OOC
(See also: HELP ROLEPOINTS, HELP INSANITY, HELP LANGUAGERULES)
To roleplay means to play a role. In the context of Achaea, roleplaying means
that you play as if you were your character. Achaea is a roleplaying game: some
level of roleplaying is expected. Minimally, please don't seek to disrupt other peoples'
roleplay with out-of-character talk.
When I log into Achaea, I, Chris, am assuming the role of Jacen, a Hashani monk. Chris is not allowed to publicly express, through Jacen, his opinions on this years NFL draft, nor can he talk about that stupid spider that knocked me into lava on Minecraft yesterday.
Beyond this, its a punishable offense for Chris to apply Achaean knowledge to Jacen that was gained through another character played by Chris, or through any OOC venue.
Achaea is certainly roleplay-mandated, some people just have a very funny definition of roleplaying, which is explicitly spelled out in the HELP file above - playing a role.
I like the idea of the opposite. Such as 'don't RP with me' I'm not a huge fan of the RP, play the game for the combat, and having a way to not RP with random people who are sending me RP tells in the middle of a fight would be sweet.
Comments
Just a couple points.
I have several not-ready-to-RP flags, this is one of them:
The one to whom you are directing your speech is not here.
내가 제일 잘 나가!!!111!!1
I like it. Maybe similar to SPARWHO, RPWHO could list those interested and you'd maybe have to remember to turn it back on after leaving realms and returning.
This is why I joined mark.
Daklore has a point, I personally thing the flag for rp will make people feel that if there not flagged for rp they don't have to rp at all.
but on the other hand I think the point of achaea is what you make of it.
if you want to play achaea to kill people Achaea is a pk game, with other elements (like rp)
if you want to roleplay on achaea it's a roleplay game with other elements (like pk)
if you want to use it for a chatroom, then it's a chatroom game with other elements (like dying to hunger)
And if you want to type out sexual things to other people inside a house with a phased serpent watching and writing everything down in a little black notepad.. then well.. it's that too.
Can we not just have a section of the forum dedicated to discussing and planning IC events? An RP flag sounds like a bad idea for reasons previously stated, most eloquently by Iocun, and an RP ad board sounds like it would do the same thing by giving the impression that people who aren't advertising for RP can be as OOC as they want, like they would be in similar, more casual games.
Roleplay in Achaea is at its best when it happens spontaneously and people go with the flow. Both these ideas seem counter productive to that. Not a fan.
Although I get that there's this thought that not joining RPWHO would say "I'm OOC right now" (I feel it's very unsubstantiated, comparing it to how SPARWHO does not particularly prevent people from sparring without joining SPARWHO, but I get that there's a boolean nature to it), I don't get why adding this will suddenly prevent people from roleplaying spontaneously.
Will all of you stubbornly decide that unless you and everyone else involved is in this list, you just aren't going to roleplay with them? Furthermore, will you refuse to roleplay spontaneously anymore?
Honestly, if this feature is so wildly successful that it literally overwrites the current culture of roleplay, I say that's even more reason to add it in, since that would likely require a lot of people having a lot of fun with it before that would happen, and that sounds like a positive thing to me.
More likely, it will not completely overwrite the current roleplaying structure. At best, it will likely end up being a tool that could add interaction that otherwise currently doesn't exist. If people misuse it, then the administration will probably realize it was a failure and delete it. At worst, they won't, but you will probably continue being able to do whatever it is you currently do in Achaea anyway.
He'd come to Cyrene for cupcakes, his thick, scaled tail twitching lazily to and fro. He'd been wandering aimlessly from the Delos artefact markets the way non-com credit whores are wont to do, when the thought struck him. Cupcakes. Cupcakes would go just fine with this new lifevision mask and flower pot, the Xoran thought.
Snow. A blizzard. He trudged through the ruins of Centre Crossing, reduced to rubble yet again by restless warrior savages from the Bastion of the North, eager to plunder Cyrene's famed snowglobe artefacts, a technology the savages had tried, but failed to emulate. Just then a soft, willowy voice with a velvety timbre called out "Yo! Want some pie? It's going to decay soon". It occurred to the Xoran that he'd been wise to choose the flower pot over spectacles of whitesight after all. The graceful dwarf handed him a thick slice of blackbird pie and downed a shot of warm brandy, daintily picking bits of pie from her beard with an aristocratic lack of self-consciousness. Let Ashtan come, he thought, I have this flower pot, and it resets.
Flowerpots are Mhaldorian, thank you very much. We have zoos, not greenhouses.
It's about the mindset it encourages. If you have an 'RP on' flag, you're advertising to new players that you're only really RPing when you toggle it on. Most new players will come from much more casual games, where OOC is tolerated; adding a flag like this is very likely to reinforce that sort of mindset in new players, which is bad for the long term direction of the game.
Easily solved with something like adding a task that says "type HELP RPLIST," and then in HELP RPLIST something that explains the command, and explains that you are always IC even if you are not on the list. Bam, problem solved.
I mean, newbies sometimes come in thinking they can talk about computers or microwave ovens in public channels, and then they are quickly pointed to HELP INSANITY, and usually go "oh, okay!"
In other words, you're right that just adding this command without any explanation from anyone could lead someone to think that not using it means you're OOC. That's a valid assumption as any other (for example, that it's used to get mudsex, that it's used to get Gods to RP with you via denizens, that it's used to play roleplaying games within Achaea, like some sort of RP-in-RP thing (i would so do that)), and it's important to realize that in order to know what expectations need to be set.
But saying that it should not be added because people can take it the wrong way means we shouldn't add PVP commands because people might assume this is some crazy senseless PVP game where you just go around killing whoever you want, whenever you want, however many times you want.
Still not convinced that there are not more elegant ways to solve the problem that this is intended to address.
Forums aren't a sufficient tool for passing info to the playerbase in general. Most players don't use the forums regularly or at all.
I think that no matter what was implemented, I can pretty much guarantee it's not going to do any overwriting of RP culture in any major way. At best it would be another incremental addition that hopefully nudges things in the right direction.
What would an RP tag actually look like though
Can we pls not do it this way
Wow Halos I think that guy had a longer talk with Whalos then I get to have with you at times.
I always thought achaea should try to implement some kind of group based event system. Like randomized tasks (from a predetermined list) set to houses and cities monthly/yearly. Maybe some kind of bulletin board in town squares for individuals/groups to sign up for smaller tasks like clearing a denizen town from some kind of pest, maybe a dungeon to explore/etc.
Stop flipping your rp flag off and we'll talk!
My initial reaction is that I am against this for most of the reasons that people are already. Like Iocun/Greys, I feel that I am in the realms pretty strictly to RP, even if it's not top notch highly involved and perhaps just on a family clan, I'm still here for that.
On the flip side, when I was the MoW of Cyrene... people standing around who I can think can actively help me defend the city give me a "tell rinzai on my cell phone KEKEKEKEKEKE" irritate the hell out of me because I kind of expect (foolishly I know) that everyone in the realms is here in a similar mindset/capacity that I am. I don't think this flag would help that out though.
I believe that I would prefer things as is, instead of introducing a mechanism for someone to justify insanity.
Other people have said it better, but I'm also not a fan of the proposal. I take the point that Achaea bans OOC, but doesn't enforce RP, but it does still create the impression that RP is somehow optional (like being open PK) to the game instead of being at its core (and Achaea's only USP in terms of the depth and flexibility available). I also don't think it would help, and just creates a new set of problems. It makes people feel entitled to RP - if I'm sitting somewhere with my RP flag on, and a newbie siren decides to RP sexytime with me, I have zero interest in that. Similarly, I doubt I would be able to muster up the energy to RP out a special snowflake newbie who wants to RP about being LORD OF FIRE. People are still going to maintain their choice in responding to RP with or without the flag on, but it's going to frustrate people even more if they get knocked back by someone with the flag up.
I think people are genuinely better directed to existing in-game structures - quoting yourself is obnoxious, but I'll do it anyway. From the thread that prompted the proposal:
"It's worth remembering as well that the more established players who you're going to get the best RP with see a lot of new characters come and go. It's a real decision who you put your time into sometimes. The best way for you to get into RP is to show that you're a sticker, someone who's going to be interesting and useful as time goes on. Join a House, join a city, do your reqs, ask secretaries/leaders if you can help them with anything. Bash up to a respectable level. Ask if you can aide to a department. If you can't, ask the aides if you can help. Do a sermon, write a journal. Do some public RP that you don't need anyone else with and see if you can drag anyone into it. (Something small and in keeping with the norms of your orgs, no special snowflake stuff)."
"Bash up to a respectable level." That is the problem. What constitutes a respectable level? If they are 3450% or my level, I doubt if they are the least bit interested in me. I've been ignored in raids, because I am 0% to the raiders. I don't really want to talk to yet another person who tells me about pygmy kidnappings, so I can't blame the raiders for not wanting to talk to me.
When you're low leveled and low might, PKers and raiders are going to ignore you as long as they're busy with PK/raiding stuff. Some are probably willing to talk to you when they're not busy fighting, but that particular group is probably the least social towards novice players in general. To answer your question, level 80 is considered "standard" in today's Achaea.
Your experience with the game is only going to improve as you learn the game and develop your character. Think about it like this: You're just starting a new job/new school/whatever. Do you expect to go in on day 1 and have tons of people buddying up to you? Probably not. People are standoffish at first but warm up to you after a while.
I don't think these particular problems are something that would be "solved" by any sort of "RPwho". It's just a reflection of how the player base and society works. People generally are more willing to interact with players in the game that they respect, so the more you accomplish, the deeper your interactions with others is probably going to be. This doesn't mean you have to be super-good at the game overnight, but if you maintain a positive interest in the game and interacting with others over the long-term, people will notice and take interest in you.
@Eratta
Personally, anyone below level 60 just doesn't look serious to me, and anyone 70 and over looks like they're going to stick around. Otherwise, you looka bit like a throwaway character. The effort involved in doing that is fairly minimal and ensures that you have to access to at least one decent skill. Generally, you're good enough to have in (at least a defensive) raid group then if you know your basics. You'd be surprised how effective spamming your main bashing attack or something else useful can be if you're in a decent sized group.
I'm not saying you have to be artifacted or even tri-trans, just that a certain level of investment in bashing up to a level where your credits have given you access to at least the main skills in one tree of your skillset means that you look serious. Like someone who wants to play the character instead of having just turned up and seeing if people are likely to adopt you as their buddy.
I can understand the desire to make Achaea more attractive to new players, but honestly I don't think this is the way to do that. If someone is "looking for roleplay," it abounds at every turn in Achaea. Making players have to do less to find or engage in it makes no sense to me. In short, the best roleplayed experiences are those that are actively sought through roleplay itself, not ads or flags, which feel a lot like Achaea's lowering its expectations rather than easing a transition into a realm itself.
Album of Bluef during her time in Achaea
The lack of appropriate #matthewy on those OOC clans makes this otherwise-accurate portrayal altogether unrealistic, Whalos.
More and more convinced that the only way to deal with this problem for newbies is to just somehow encourage existing players to be nicer and do more roleplaying/convene people together including newbies. I do think adding the city hangouts to landmarks is a passive, low-stakes way to help a newbie out. Granted, they may cruise on in and find someone testing out aliases on someone else/AFKing instead of actively roleplaying. But they are more likely to find roleplay at Farrier's while we are in between getting smashed by Ashtan than they are bumping around Shornwall by themselves or something, so it couldn't hurt.
@Vansittart I understand your position, but you have to understand that it is hard for players new to the game to understand. People keep saying this game is great, so do I just take your word for it?
And it's not even a hardcore RP mush. It's an RP optional game.
This is too much for me. My brain hurts, I'll go back to sanity recovering things like studying @Synbios's alien nature.
>sanity recovery
>studying my alien existence
Pick one. There is no both. I ate it a while ago.
15.6 ROLEPLAYING and OOC
(See also: HELP ROLEPOINTS, HELP INSANITY, HELP LANGUAGERULES)
To roleplay means to play a role. In the context of Achaea, roleplaying means
that you play as if you were your character. Achaea is a roleplaying game: some
level of roleplaying is expected. Minimally, please don't seek to disrupt other peoples'
roleplay with out-of-character talk.
When I log into Achaea, I, Chris, am assuming the role of Jacen, a Hashani monk. Chris is not allowed to publicly express, through Jacen, his opinions on this years NFL draft, nor can he talk about that stupid spider that knocked me into lava on Minecraft yesterday.
Beyond this, its a punishable offense for Chris to apply Achaean knowledge to Jacen that was gained through another character played by Chris, or through any OOC venue.
Achaea is certainly roleplay-mandated, some people just have a very funny definition of roleplaying, which is explicitly spelled out in the HELP file above - playing a role.
(Please excuse the third person )
I like the idea of the opposite. Such as 'don't RP with me' I'm not a huge fan of the RP, play the game for the combat, and having a way to not RP with random people who are sending me RP tells in the middle of a fight would be sweet.