Heartseed redux



  • edited March 2014
    Tbf, this is actually *gasp* on topic. Though I don't appreciate being only partially quoted, but I guess it wasn't too relevant in the first place.

    Eta: not that I actually get the point of you posting that here Shecks
  • Because you asked for my answer in both this thread and in message, and the discussion was both the point of the thread, and my logical answer to why I don't like heartseed (actually, what I don't like is the prep for it, as you pointed out).

    @Jacen if you don't like my thread, then go back to rants and talk about cats and stuff.
  • Lol, I have no issues with the the thread or any relevent content in it, but those two posts by Shecks immediately above my post were just horrible.  A mashup of posts/messages/maybe new content with no apparent context or sequence other than that which they're presented in (Which is questionable due to non-sequential time stamps and a lack of datestamps).
  • edited March 2014
    It was a normal, PM conversation, and was posted in ... normal order.  Are you on drugs?
  • @Shecks you said you're confident that the curing I mentioned doesn't stop all Heartseed setups. Could you provide some examples, or quote the two explanations from the people that told you so, at the very least?
  • I'll talk to some people and/or fiddle with it later and post the results. As a serpent, the concept of just not curing afflictions, especially broken legs, seems pretty damn easy to take advantage of, to say the least.
  • Okay. I'll wait for your explanation of the different approaches to heartseed and how a sylvan can take advantage of the curing method in a way they capitalise on before making a judgement, then.

    /Yay actual combat discussion/
  • Sounds like Heartseed degraded to a copy/pasted strat these days.
  • edited March 2014
    100% true.  I've yet to see anything other than prep both legs, prep torso, break both legs, heartseed, then torso.  Only way to not die to it is to not cure the leg breaks, or double tumble through the icewall they will never allow you to have.  I think that'd be a good SVO update - even though it's possible to do yourself using the 'ignore' functionality included in SVO (it's really difficult to code in all the various reasons/conditions to UN ignore leg breaks, and its just as easy for a sylvan to illusion any of those conditions to get you to apply to legs, then get guaranteed kill with heartseed.)  This is part of the answer to your question, @Jovolo - but there are other (better) heartseed setups too, but I haven't had a chance to dig into it yet.  (It's date night, enjoy the DKs, @Epiphany)

    I still stick with the: "If they have you prepped and they're not venomlocked, go back to guard stack and watch youtube videos for 5 minutes" method.
  • I guess I was too optimistic... that isn't an answer, Shecks. All you said is that it's difficult to code against
  • edited March 2014
    No, you must have misread.  You have two choices, ignoring the "see who's icewall/firelash decays first" strategy.

    1) Apply to legs
    2) Don't apply to legs

    If you cure the legs, you die to heartseed.

    If you don't cure the legs, you are are now prone, with two broken legs.  The sylvan now has as long list of options, including going for an easy damage kill, further damaging the legs, breaking arms/head, and so on.

    The first reaction to this strategy is: Well, if they do any of that, then you apply to legs.

    Wrong.  This is the dynamic response required to make it a guaranteed kill that I was referring to (at least, part of it).  All a sylvan has to do is illusion something like... hailstorm, shatter, behead, whatever, (0.6 second balance), and you if apply restoration, then you die to heartseed.  If you DON'T apply, then they know you're not going to apply, and can begin taking advantage of the fact that you're essentially permanently stuck on the ground.

    The only way to argue that this strategy will not work is to say that a Sylvan can't kill someone who's prone with a double leg break.  This is far from the truth, even with a long list of tanking artefacts.

    Illusions.  I can illusion restoration, but 1) lifevision.  2) most people don't have illusion 3) I might still actually die to heartseed (or heartseed damage).  4) even if I don't, I'm still prone and double leg broke.
  • I've had to emote to my bracers of frost to end the icewall/firelash battle a few times.
  • You are allowed to tumble out of hailstorm and behead, and illusions are not a 0.6 eq for Sylvans. Closer to 2s, actually, which is enough to tumble/apply.

    You don't need to illusion a resto apply... you just apply mending instead
  • edited March 2014
    Tumble doesn't do anything without an icewall, and I've yet to meet a sylvan or a monk that'll fight you on an icewall.

    And yeah, illusion/fake, same difference.  I've had it work twice, I've had it fail to work far more often, even though in theory it should.
  • Tumble escapes real behead and real hailstorm... and you can apply to legs if they follow with a thornrend and stand up in the next room. You could really just apply to legs anyway because the combined eq of either an illusion or real hailstorm/behead + heartseed will allow you to stand and just parry torso because vinewreathe is terribly short.
  • And if you illusion heartseed?
  • Context? You can diagnose
  • edited March 2014
    I didn't mean to disagree @jovolo :( bad mouse and highlighting. (Sorry!)

    edit: Oh hey apparently I can move my choice? cool!
  • edited March 2014
    Why are you prone with two broken legs when they're on equilibrium? You should have at least cured the first while they're rending you to break the second, which means you're 4 seconds from standing when you pause your applying. How are they going to damage you out in 4 seconds?
  • Kafziel said:
    Why are you prone with two broken legs when they're on equilibrium? You should have at least cured the first while they're rending you to break the second, which means you're 4 seconds from standing when you pause your applying. How are they going to damage you out in 4 seconds?
    How have you cured the first leg break if both legs were prepped and all they need to do is rend the second limb?
  • WessuxWessux Chattanooga
    edited April 2014
    Heartseed is preventable.

    Edit: I just wanted to be a person and say something on the topic.
    Invest in a 9mm retirement plan.
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