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Memorable quotes

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  • SilasSilas
    You're lucky you got 100k. The shop's been closed for god knows how long. You can tell which way the wind is blowing, so the smart thing to do would have been to sell your shop ages ago.

    I do agree that people are crazy to spend anything close to what they do for any in-city shops, and there is probably a need for more out of city options for shop owners. But I don't feel much/any sympathy for people who just sit and wait for probably rl years without doing anything to resolve the situation so they can cry when something bad eventually happens to them.

  • IsmayIsmay
    When I played Chancellor, I -did- push for the Cyrene owned shops to be seized, on the condition that reimbursement was given. It only made RP sense, since Targs were banned from Cyrene. When reimbursement was mentioned, I assumed that what was originally paid for the shop would be returned, at least.

    It just feels too much like theft to me. We're talking about players' ooc money here. I've always thought that players have way too much control over other players' ooc money in the form of credits. No warnings given at the time of purchase matter in anyone's mind when they lose money.

    IRE wants players to spend money here, right? Looks like they'd do more to protect player investment.
    Give us -real- shop logs! Not another misinterpretation of features we ask for, turned into something that either doesn't help at all, or doesn't remotely resemble what we wanted to begin with.

    Thanks!

    Current position of some of the playerbase, instead of expressing a desire to fix problems:

    Vhaynna: "Honest question - if you don't like Achaea or the current admin, why do you even bother playing?"


  • SilasSilas
    If IRE wanted to protect people's investments in this way, they'd need to ban the sale of city shops and only allow city shop rental. I'd be fine with this, personally, but I can't see it happening since IRE make money off the credits people buy to buy city shops.

  • AdrikAdrik
    Silas said:
    If IRE wanted to protect people's investments in this way, they'd need to ban the sale of city shops and only allow city shop rental. I'd be fine with this, personally, but I can't see it happening since IRE make money off the credits people buy to buy city shops.
    After digging through 400 years of chancellor logs, I've seen people spend 10 million g for a shop, only to fail to meet city standards within 10 years and it reclaimed with no reimbursement.

    Multiple times.

    This is literally just what happens, and why over inflated shop prices are hilarious at best.
  • IsmayIsmay
    I'd be fine with banning the sale of city shops and only allowing their rental. More out-of-city shops could be created and sold, in villages and common areas. That seems, on the surface, to be a decent fix. As long as they don't go overboard, as they tend to do, and price them at like 5000000 credits.
    Give us -real- shop logs! Not another misinterpretation of features we ask for, turned into something that either doesn't help at all, or doesn't remotely resemble what we wanted to begin with.

    Thanks!

    Current position of some of the playerbase, instead of expressing a desire to fix problems:

    Vhaynna: "Honest question - if you don't like Achaea or the current admin, why do you even bother playing?"


  • MilabarMilabar
    The obvious solution is to allow housing to have an option to create shops, mainly oos housing

    Eliminates the possibility of having shops in cities screwing the owners over time, allows those with the wealth already to have said properties to run shops (limited to one per land, base price 2000 credits is fine with me) and opens up long standing shops that are within the variety of cities to be opened up a younger generation willing to throw down the money to get a text shop without fighting through the history of 600 years of bullshit.


  • SilasSilas
    Keorin said:
    Alternatively, you could treat cities under the same rules for credit fraud as you treat players, pretty easily. It's not as if cities don't have the credits to cover this, and it's not as if it isn't players who both make the initial deal with a shopowner, and who take away the shop later on the other side.

    I don't know, this would limit roleplay in ways I don't particularly like, but I don't think that hundreds of dollars in out of character investment should be up on the chopping block when cities come into conflict, especially as the admin have been fairly consistently pushing for more conflict between cities.


    Absolutely not. The players on both sides are responsible for their actions. Imagine if I bought a shop in Mhaldor, got myself enemied, and they had to pay me 2000cr for it. Ludicrous.

  • CaelanCaelan
    When they introduced the carts I kind of assumed out-of-city shops would be a credit-purchasable thing shortly after with the caveat that if it went "dormant" the shop would be closed (risky to buy so there weren't a million shops everywhere) and dismantled - easily RP justified because the owner didn't care for it and it fell into disrepair before nature just took it over, breaking everything down.

  • MilabarMilabar
    Also, as a side note, not all cities have the credits to cover one "shop" at 2000 credits, let alone every shop in them.

    Just saying.
  • PrythePrythe
    Trey said:
    I'm not trying to say that anyone deserves to get hoed out of an investment, but on the same token, if you are a member of a faction and have involvement in another faction (whether that's membership in a potentially conflicting order, a subdivision house or shop in a city you are not a part of, etc) the onus is on you to keep an eye on how the wind is blowing and act accordingly. I had three shops for the longest time (one in Hashan, one in Mhaldor, one in Delos). Regardless of me not participating in the offense, I sold my Hashani shop when Mhaldor started to regularly shit on/raid Hashan again because I knew what was likely to happen. 

    At the risk of Forum Bullshit happening - I did try to sell my shop, with the active involvement of Targossas - for the very reasons you cite.






    - To love another person is to see the face of G/d
    - Let me get my hat and my knife
    - It's your apple, take a bite
    - Don't dream it ... be it


  • PrythePrythe
    edited April 2020
    Silas said:
    You're lucky you got 100k. The shop's been closed for god knows how long. You can tell which way the wind is blowing, so the smart thing to do would have been to sell your shop ages ago.

    I do agree that people are crazy to spend anything close to what they do for any in-city shops, and there is probably a need for more out of city options for shop owners. But I don't feel much/any sympathy for people who just sit and wait for probably rl years without doing anything to resolve the situation so they can cry when something bad eventually happens to them.
    You're leaving out the part where I offered to continue to pay City Taxes - even a bonus, and tried to sell it when it became clear that the ban would not be ending any time soon. 

    Message 18432

    Sent By: Prythe on 14 Mar 2020, 11:59

    (To Avianca): Greetings, Avianca! I need you to stop Hunting long enough to help me out with something. Even though I am of the firm belief that relationships between our two Cities will eventually return to normal, I think it is time for me to sell Simply Prythe's to a Targossian or somebody capable of being a current ally of Targossas. Is there a preferred means by which you would like me to handle this?


    Justify all you want, but don't pretend the was solid.

    @Achilles I don't think the amount paid is relevant. Shops are currently worth what they are worth. If I buy a car for $30,000 USD ten years later I can't expect to sell it for that same amount.  Similarly, if I buy a piece of artwork by, oh say Jasper Johns for $10,000 I can expect to sell it a few decades later for substantially more than same. 

    A shop is worth what somebody will pay - there was a valid offer of 2,000 credits. I think that's high, and wouldn't pay that much myself.

    I also don't think that rental costs are relevant. This wasn't a rental shop, it was an owned shop.

    I don't have a need to get into a back and forth - but I do have a need to shake my head and offer some logic when folks want to pretend that offering / paying 100,000 gold for something worth in excess of 1,000 credits, by any reasonable formula, is fair.

    I agree that Shops should not be so tied to Cities, and there should be more.

    This was less of an issue when I managed a shop in Mhaldor on behalf of a Priest of Shallam while I was a Druid of the Druid Guild and a member of Oakstone.

    As you can see, times have changed.

    - To love another person is to see the face of G/d
    - Let me get my hat and my knife
    - It's your apple, take a bite
    - Don't dream it ... be it


  • KeorinKeorin
    edited April 2020
    Silas said:

    Absolutely not. The players on both sides are responsible for their actions. Imagine if I bought a shop in Mhaldor, got myself enemied, and they had to pay me 2000cr for it. Ludicrous.
    I don't necessarily disagree, but for the sake of argument, consider that this is already the case for players in most other scenarios. If I buy earrings with you to share, and then I turn traitor and run off to another city, you're going to have to buy out my share of the earring if you want to change earring partners. It doesn't matter whether that roleplay makes any sense, the moment that OOC money is on the line different rules already apply.

    The situation you cite also isn't how that would go down. If a shopkeeper got enemied to Mhaldor, they could close down the shop and force the owner to sell it. If things worked this way, a city would never have to pay another player credits, they just couldn't seize shops whenever they wanted and put people out hundreds of dollars of premium currency and claim it for themselves on a whim.

    Also, while players are largely responsible for their own actions, they aren't always responsible for the actions of cities. It's undeniable that the admin have been pushing cities to oppose each other more and more over the last years, and while this may be good for the game, it's pretty directly leading to shops getting seized and large IRL investments lost (and not just in this case). The only situation at all comparable is factional classes, and that tends to both give players less control (you can't force someone to lose their class), and it doesn't let cities pretty directly take credits from players and pocket them.

  • AstarodAstarod
    Hey guys we've derailed the memorable quotes thread. If you want, I made another thread just so you could talk or expound on these points there, I just think we shouldn't spam out this thread too much on a tangent. 
    The Divine voice of Twilight echoes in your head, "See that it is. I espy a tithe of potential in your mortal soul, Astarod Blackstone. Let us hope that it flourishes and does not falter as so many do."

    Aegis, God of War says, "You are dismissed from My demense, Astarod. Go forth and fight well. Bleed fiercely, and climb the purpose you have sought to chase for."
  • TreyTrey
    Prythe said:
    Trey said:
    I'm not trying to say that anyone deserves to get hoed out of an investment, but on the same token, if you are a member of a faction and have involvement in another faction (whether that's membership in a potentially conflicting order, a subdivision house or shop in a city you are not a part of, etc) the onus is on you to keep an eye on how the wind is blowing and act accordingly. I had three shops for the longest time (one in Hashan, one in Mhaldor, one in Delos). Regardless of me not participating in the offense, I sold my Hashani shop when Mhaldor started to regularly shit on/raid Hashan again because I knew what was likely to happen. 

    At the risk of Forum Bullshit happening - I did try to sell my shop, with the active involvement of Targossas - for the very reasons you cite.






    Oh, I was more commenting generally, since I didn't know all the details on your particular situation! 

  • SilasSilas
    Keorin said:
    Silas said:

    Absolutely not. The players on both sides are responsible for their actions. Imagine if I bought a shop in Mhaldor, got myself enemied, and they had to pay me 2000cr for it. Ludicrous.
    I don't necessarily disagree, but for the sake of argument, consider that this is already the case for players in most other scenarios. If I buy earrings with you to share, and then I turn traitor and run off to another city, you're going to have to buy out my share of the earring if you want to change earring partners. It doesn't matter whether that roleplay makes any sense, the moment that OOC money is on the line different rules already apply.


    In my experience, if you turn traitor or just go dormant you eat the loss of 400cr on the earrings you bought with whoever. There's no buying out of anything, just like there isnt with shops.

  • TahquilTahquil
    There is only ever one owner of Sinope earrings. If A buys and B turns traitor its up to A if they want to reimburse whatever B put towards it, reallocate the earring to C out from underneath B's nose or leave it as is.

    B never has the option to buy out A to gain control of the earrings.
  • AchillesAchilles Los Angeles
    @Prythe I'm asking how much you paid and to who.  If it was directly to IRE is different than if Shallam got it 2000cr.  I would be telling Sothantos to sell every shop in town for 1000cr if that was a possibility.  
    image
  • PrythePrythe
    Achilles said:
    @Prythe I'm asking how much you paid and to who.  If it was directly to IRE is different than if Shallam got it 2000cr.  I would be telling Sothantos to sell every shop in town for 1000cr if that was a possibility.  
    I paid gold directly to players. I have no idea what they paid Shallam as they had already owned the shop for quite some time before they sold it to me.

    Yes, I am avoiding answering this. I don't remember exactly, but it was a ridiculously low amount (although a large-ish sum at the time).

    - To love another person is to see the face of G/d
    - Let me get my hat and my knife
    - It's your apple, take a bite
    - Don't dream it ... be it


  • TreyTrey
    Achilles said:
    @Prythe I'm asking how much you paid and to who.  If it was directly to IRE is different than if Shallam got it 2000cr.  I would be telling Sothantos to sell every shop in town for 1000cr if that was a possibility.  
    Technically you can, and cities have done historically - however, it's also within that city's purview and prerogative to seize those shops if the players who own property there fall out of good standing with the law, much like drug dealers who have homes seized for operating out of them. From an OOC consideration, compensation for the property would be warranted IMO, as well as the opportunity to retrieve property from the stockroom, but as far as I'm aware nobody is under any obligation to in the rules (as-written, anyway). Personally I'd love to buy a shop in Cyrene, but with as much as Mhaldor likes to go on the offensive raidwise it seems like a bad investment.

  • HalosHalos The Reaches
    A whisper spider laughs joyously.
    ugh

    A frenzied cleric screams, "Like more than one halo!"
  • HalosHalos The Reaches

    Your foozlebox reports the following:

       Items to find         Point Value      Found?

        1. "gypsy"                 5           No

        2. "ugrach"                10          No

        3. "tsol'dasi"             7           No

        4. "bonegolem"             5           No

        5. "horse"                 2           No

       Total points found: 0

       Total points on card: 29 (if complete: 58)

       Minutes left before you can pass: 5

       Your current Foozle Score: 20

       You must find at least one item to submit this card.

    ...






    A frenzied cleric screams, "Like more than one halo!"
  • CobaultCobault


    When you're determined to get that Offspring Talisman yaself.
  • MathonwyMathonwy
    Ysela said:
    I was searching through old logs for something else, and came upon this (from a jousting tournament that @Carmain was organising when Ysela was young):

    Carmain walks over to the crowd and carefully selects one of the boards that says "Applord" and hold it up.
    The peasants begin to clap erratically.
    Mathonwy apparently won the tournament, but the above applause was for the runner-up Xinna.
    I remember that! I lost the logs a long time ago. I think I won it with a Dardanic stallion, somehow, versus Xinna's legendary mount. I was super surprised.

    That tournament was a lot of fun -- really, everything with that particular group (iirc @Ruth, @Hasar, @Carmain, @Xinna, @Xer, @Saeva, @Vrah, @Jurixe were the Mhaldorian cohort) was like a kind of golden age for me in the game.


    Saeva said:
    If Mathonwy is 2006 I wish 2007 had never come.
    Xenomorph said:
    heh. Mathowned.
    Message #12872 Sent by Jurixe
    4/16/0:41
    MAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF.
  • LyndeeLyndee
    edited May 2020
    From a few days ago:
    Avianca says with a faint Shallamese accent, "Yoink."

    @Sothantos is suddenly transformed as Avianca swats him with a Crook.

    Sothantos says, "Oh."

    (Party): Achilles says, "The Dawnlord is a sheep."

    (Party): Achilles says, "Don't pet the Dawnlord, even if he is very fluffy."

    Sothantos peers about himself unscrupulously.

    Sothantos says solemnly, "Baa."

    He is a fluffy sheep, with a wideset, wiggling nose. From head to hoof, he is covered in a full,
    luxurious wooly coat, culminating in a constantly-twitching docked tail. A pretty pink bow is tied 
    cheerfully around said tail, completing this vision of pastoral cuteness. Suffused with an aura of 
    star-bright refulgence, he walks with the Lightbringer's truest regard.

    You say to Sothantos, "You look so fluffy."

    Achilles says in a calm, steady voice, "I like the new look."

    Achilles says in a calm, steady voice, "Definite improvement."

    You say to Sothantos, "I am particularly enthusiastic about this pink bow."

    Sothantos gives Achilles an offended look before turning tail and trotting off.

    Sothantos leaves to the west.

  • RangorRangor
    Used to be you didn't scam shop owners so you wouldn't devaluate your city shops and you'd attract capable shop owners instead of scrubs. 🤪 

    Say if your city needs cash fast, it has a shop. A few years ago you would get 3k credits for it. (Eleusis did this with two shops before fking it up). Now you get 500k gold 
    image
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