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  • AchillesAchilles Los AngelesMember Posts: 2,625 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Did you pay 2000 credits to IRE or Shallam?  
    image
  • PrythePrythe Member Posts: 522 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Thaisen said:
    Don’t shops go for like 2000 credits? I seriously don’t know, just what I’ve heard.

    It's your inheritance son, you should know the value of Mommy's estate.

    P.S. Yes indeed, they do. Sometimes more. Sometimes less. But not, uh, 100,000 divided by 14,000 per credit is how much? less.

    - To love another person is to see the face of G/d
    - Let me get my hat and my knife
    - It's your apple, take a bite
    - Don't dream it ... be it


  • AdrikAdrik Member Posts: 472 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Prythe said:
    Thaisen said:
    Don’t shops go for like 2000 credits? I seriously don’t know, just what I’ve heard.

    It's your inheritance son, you should know the value of Mommy's estate.

    P.S. Yes indeed, they do. Sometimes more. Sometimes less. But not, uh, 100,000 divided by 14,000 per credit is how much? less.
    Credit prices ages ago were less than 14k. You also have to factor in how much money you've saved by... Long term leasing, paid up front. By you know. Not paying a lease. Lemme tell you. I'm doing some math. Its a lot over here in hashan (10 mil for 500 years). Not to mention owning and running a shop and the profits that provides.
  • ThaisenThaisen Member Posts: 322 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Archaeon said:
    Thaisen said:

    I thought credit scams were illegal?


    image
    Bann
  • ThaisenThaisen Member Posts: 322 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Keorin said:
    By the game's rules, it's only fraud if you make a deal involving credits with another player. If you make a deal with a -city-, they can screw you out of whatever you want just fine (and frequently do).

    Ahh I see, typical corporate bullshit, what is this Citizens United 2.0?  :p
    image
  • AntoniusAntonius Member Posts: 5,004 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Vhaith said:
    Thaisen said:
    Don’t shops go for like 2000 credits? I seriously don’t know, just what I’ve heard.
    It's also a transplant from Shallam, isn't it? This could mean it's potentially worth more. 
    Of course it isn't a transplant from Shallam. The destruction of the city was pretty quick, we didn't have time to take any of the shops with us...
    Caelan
  • CaelanCaelan Member Posts: 2,364 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Adrik said:
    You also have to factor in how much money you've saved by... Long term leasing, paid up front. By you know. Not paying a lease. Lemme tell you. I'm doing some math. 

    Long term leasing is still leasing </The More You Know>
    Keorin said:
    By the game's rules, it's only fraud if you make a deal involving credits with another player. If you make a deal with a -city-, they can screw you out of whatever you want just fine (and frequently do).
    Curious if the argument could be made that the city was just the beneficiary and the verbal agreement made with at least one player?

    Bann
  • AntoniusAntonius Member Posts: 5,004 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Antonius said:
    Vhaith said:
    Thaisen said:
    Don’t shops go for like 2000 credits? I seriously don’t know, just what I’ve heard.
    It's also a transplant from Shallam, isn't it? This could mean it's potentially worth more. 
    Of course it isn't a transplant from Shallam. The destruction of the city was pretty quick, we didn't have time to take any of the shops with us...
    Also unclear to me why that would affect the price anyway. Do shopkeepers in Achaea care about the history of the shop they're replacing? "There used to be one of these in Shallam" doesn't seem like a massive selling point, but I also don't understand paying 2000 credits for a shop.
  • AdrikAdrik Member Posts: 472 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Vhaith said:
    Are people really going to try and justify giving someone 100k gold, in place of the potential 2000 credits she could have gotten, if Targossas wasn't having a childish temper tantrum? 
    I mean. Except the part where she had 500 years of no lease payments... Which, following Hashan's structure of something like 15k / year to lease.. issss 7,500,000.. when 2000credits back then were something like 5.5k cr per (at least the earliest accounts from 505 were that much)... Is she getting less? Yeah. 

    Wanna see if Hashan can do better? ;)
  • CaelanCaelan Member Posts: 2,364 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited April 23
    Adrik said:
    Vhaith said:
    Are people really going to try and justify giving someone 100k gold, in place of the potential 2000 credits she could have gotten, if Targossas wasn't having a childish temper tantrum? 
    I mean. Except the part where she had 500 years of no lease payments... Which, following Hashan's structure of something like 15k / year to lease.. issss 7,500,000.. when 2000credits back then were something like 5.5k cr per (at least the earliest accounts from 505 were that much)... Is she getting less? Yeah. 

    Wanna see if Hashan can do better? ;)
    Wait..  5500gp/cr x 2000cr = 11,000,000gp

    11,000,000gp / 500yrs = 22,000gp per year lease.  

    Just so Im clear, are we arguing it is better or worse that even at market rates from 500 years ago, she/he still paid more technically?

    Or that owning the shop today would value it somewhere close to 28,000,000gp?

    Bann
  • LennLenn Member Posts: 818 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    They do have that power, though. It's the same hidden cost for factional classes, player housing, and even paying to be unenemied.
  • TreyTrey Member Posts: 4,830 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I'm not trying to say that anyone deserves to get hoed out of an investment, but on the same token, if you are a member of a faction and have involvement in another faction (whether that's membership in a potentially conflicting order, a subdivision house or shop in a city you are not a part of, etc) the onus is on you to keep an eye on how the wind is blowing and act accordingly. I had three shops for the longest time (one in Hashan, one in Mhaldor, one in Delos). Regardless of me not participating in the offense, I sold my Hashani shop when Mhaldor started to regularly shit on/raid Hashan again because I knew what was likely to happen. 

  • SkyeSkye The Duchess BellatereMember, Seafaring Liason Posts: 3,170 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited April 23
    As someone who's now potentially facing a similar situation due to org affiliation (no other fault of my own apart from just belonging to an Order), and whose actions are constantly paralysed by a 1000cr investment, I can't help but be sympathetic to the situation.

    If my shop gets seized randomly in the week, I'm SOL, and I don't even have a city who will give me a consolation prize shop to make up for it.

    Just thinking about it is giving me a headache and makes me not want to play (however little I"m already playing).

    ETA to Trey: Admittedly quickly selling off your property is an option. But because of how factionalised everything is nowadays, even finding a buyer has become a headache.


    IsmayBannShirszaeZbaco
  • IsmayIsmay Member Posts: 806 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    I can't even join a city because I'd potentially lose two shops. There aren't any "neutral" cities anymore. It's isolating for those who wish to play merchants.
    Give us -real- shop logs! Not another misinterpretation of features we ask for, turned into something that either doesn't help at all, or doesn't remotely resemble what we wanted to begin with.

    Thanks!

    Current position of some of the playerbase, instead of expressing a desire to fix problems:

    Vhaynna: "Honest question - if you don't like Achaea or the current admin, why do you even bother playing?"


    Evastiana
  • SyrenniaSyrennia Member Posts: 83 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Vhaith said:
    Are people really going to try and justify giving someone 100k gold, in place of the potential 2000 credits she could have gotten, if Targossas wasn't having a childish temper tantrum? 

    The answer seems to be a resounding, "Yes."
    MinifieBann
  • AstarodAstarod Member Posts: 822 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    edited April 23
    I'm not really sure what happened with Prythe's shop. I do think the 100,000 gold was awful, since I know one person who made a high credit offer on it. I won't divulge information here because I respect their privacy. I hate to say it, but I doubt I'd want my friend spending 2000 credits on any shop but a Delos one, simply because it can't be shut down via players. 

    I'm saying that because there's also times you get kicked out of a city because you disagree with something, or someone wants to exercise power, or something happens in an event. You're kind of like @Ismay said, SoL if you want to be a merchant or protect your investments at all.

    I don't know any of the details, so I won't defend, or pretend I know enough to defend or support Prythe. I just think player run shops would be much better if they were spread out around the realms, instead of in cities, and the center of factional activity.

    Wouldn't it be cool to own a shop in istarion?


    The Divine voice of Twilight echoes in your head, "See that it is. I espy a tithe of potential in your mortal soul, Astarod Blackstone. Let us hope that it flourishes and does not falter as so many do."

    Aegis, God of War says, "You are dismissed from My demense, Astarod. Go forth and fight well. Bleed fiercely, and climb the purpose you have sought to chase for."
    LennPrytheShirszae
  • TreyTrey Member Posts: 4,830 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Skye said:
    ETA to Trey: Admittedly quickly selling off your property is an option.
    Of course you admit it, you're the one I shuffled it onto :joy:

    CaelanPrythe
  • AchillesAchilles Los AngelesMember Posts: 2,625 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    No one answered my question, did Prythe pay 2000cr to Shallam?

    Also I have no idea why someone would buy a shop for 2000cr right now, that's over 2000 achaea years of rent, I guess if you play Achaea for another 70 rl years it will be worth it.  What 12 year old is dropping 2000 credits for a text shop?
    image
  • IocunIocun Member Posts: 3,665 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Do we really need to start with the ad hominems?
    CaelanBannAdrik
  • ArchaeonArchaeon Ur mums house lolMember Posts: 997 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    What did you just call me
    CaelanCobault
  • CaelanCaelan Member Posts: 2,364 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Archaeon said:
    What did you just call me
    ur mom.

    @Astarod I used to own a shop in Shallam (bought one for 1000cr and another for 2000cr) and even then I agreed that shops should be placed more outside cities. The Delos shops were more of an auction item. But now more than then...the world is huge and could use more shops.

    BannAdrikPrythe
  • SyrenniaSyrennia Member Posts: 83 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Iocun said:
    Do we really need to start with the ad hominems?

    What ad hominem? I'm guessing Achilles "what 12 year old?" comment was referring to them being ~82 by the time 2000cr worth of rent was done.
    BannIocunAchillesHalos
  • IocunIocun Member Posts: 3,665 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Oh right, I may have misread that. Sorry then.
  • EvastianaEvastiana Member Posts: 23 ✭✭ - Stalwart
    to correct @Adrik Shop taxes yearly for my shop run me 27,000 gold. but I lease by the year as well. So it's possible it IS cheaper to lease longer, but generally it's 27k resounding in Hashan :)
  • AdrikAdrik Member Posts: 472 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Evastiana said:
    to correct @Adrik Shop taxes yearly for my shop run me 27,000 gold. but I lease by the year as well. So it's possible it IS cheaper to lease longer, but generally it's 27k resounding in Hashan :)
    As a note: Liliana still pays taxes (just like you do). She just doesn't pay for lease, which is what you payextra for. It's 8.5k for Kriz running toxicology as an example.
    Evastiana
  • EvastianaEvastiana Member Posts: 23 ✭✭ - Stalwart
    Adrik said:
    Evastiana said:
    to correct @Adrik Shop taxes yearly for my shop run me 27,000 gold. but I lease by the year as well. So it's possible it IS cheaper to lease longer, but generally it's 27k resounding in Hashan :)
    As a note: Liliana still pays taxes (just like you do). She just doesn't pay for lease, which is what you payextra for. It's 8.5k for Kriz running toxicology as an example.
    Makes sense. Like I said I only know from the year to year leases as I said. I can't claim to know the other options as I haven't essentially taken them, but it's good insight to have for the year to year leasing. I just don't want people to think taxes are at most 18k or whatever they pay.
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