Memorable quotes

Mizik

2014/12/17 04:26:22 - Mizik cityfavoured Asottas for: This boy has stones forged from the same iron 

as the Black Lord's crown!

Mathonwy

In re: issues: yes and no.

On the one hand, are there people who use issues as a gambler's fallacy shotgun approach to try and enact some sort of weird OOC justice onto "bad guys," and who are driven by a belief that if you issue someone enough, one of them eventually has to stick? Absolutely, and I think a few names jump to everyone's mind.

On the other hand, are there players who go out of their way to antagonize people (specifically people who are easily riled up and prone to issuing) for the lulzy logs? Absolutely, and I think a few more names jump to everyone's mind.

I'm not saying the current system of issues works best (for instance, before I quit playing the last time, I distinctly remember PK rules in re: shrines being decidedly wonky). I'm not saying the previous system worked great either (pk lawyers lol), but it had the distinct advantage of having most of the things you could get issued for laid out in excrutiating detail, which was nice for transparency. Ideally, players would know exactly what they can or cannot do, blatant pk loophole abuse would not be tolerated, and both people who use issues as weapons and people who went out of their way to antagonize or provoke players into issuing would be punished. But I don't know if that kind of thing is at all achievable.

And all of this talk about issuing is only really relevant to cases when people do issue. There are lots of people who play/have played this game who have had things happen to them that probably should have resulted in issues, but they never did, just because there's such a stigma associated with doing so.

ETA: tl;dr:

Addama

Issues seem fine the way they are, you have to really go out of your way to get issued and lose.

And there are a few people who seem to go out of their way to push the line of tolerable behavior until it's more like a bell curve, but these people are the exception rather than the norm.  Old rules enabled issues between two active and consenting combatants, which is just dumb; if you're going to be a Mark and throw yourself at other people, you should be willing to die when it's not convenient.

Bluef

Addama said:

Issues seem fine the way they are, you have to really go out of your way to get issued and lose.

And there are a few people who seem to go out of their way to push the line of tolerable behavior until it's more like a bell curve, but these people are the exception rather than the norm.  Old rules enabled issues between two active and consenting combatants, which is just dumb; if you're going to be a Mark and throw yourself at other people, you should be willing to die when it's not convenient.

I agree. If only this were true and Marks (at least two I can think of) didn't abuse IGNORE just to stop fighting people they continually lose to. 

Bluef

Daeir said:

Except IGNORE doesn't prevent someone from killing you if they have valid IC reasoning to do so. Oops!

What it doesn't block:

----------------------

- CITY TELLS (CT)

- HOUSE TELLS (HT, HNT, HTS)

- News posts.

- Any form of repercussion from IC circumstances.

I've been issued for killing and repeatedly attacking a mark who had me ignored and it was upheld (only a warning). I was told that attacking a Mark who has you issued is a no-no. The person wants nothing more to do with you and you need to leave them alone. If that's not the case, then I would love to know why I was told differently. I think Bonko and Eari have had similar experiences both with Marks and in terms of fighting people who have you ignored on Open PK planes.

Shirszae

Bluef said:

Daeir said:

Except IGNORE doesn't prevent someone from killing you if they have valid IC reasoning to do so. Oops!

What it doesn't block:

----------------------

- CITY TELLS (CT)

- HOUSE TELLS (HT, HNT, HTS)

- News posts.

- Any form of repercussion from IC circumstances.

I've been issued for killing and repeatedly attacking a mark who had me ignored and it was upheld (only a warning). I was told that attacking a Mark who has you issued is a no-no. The person wants nothing more to do with you and you need to leave them alone. If that's not the case, then I would love to know why I was told differently. I think Bonko and Eari have had similar experiences both with Marks and in terms of fighting people who have you ignored on Open PK planes.

Being issued and being ignored are different things. In other words, you should be free to do so after whatever issue you had with that person has been processed.

Sena

In theory, and according to the help files, ignore can't be used as a shield against PK or to hide from the consequences of your actions. In practice (based on admin rulings), it 100% can be used that way, unless you're really blatantly going out of your way to invite the PK.

Bluef

I agree. According to the help file it should be that way. I also concur with Shirszae; however, that's not the case. Trust me. I issued myself on this just to make sure I could hunt someone after the original issue/ignore for something new he'd done and I was told nope. Ignore, I was told, "means the person wants nothing more to do with you." In the end, this person got dealt with by the Garden for continually breaching his own Ignore because I wasn't allowed to pursue IC repercussions. 

Edit: To clarify, I didn't have him ignored, he had me ignored to stop me from attacking him (he was a Mark).

Jinsun

The biggest issue is not really issues, it's issues being used as a threat because people want to hide behind slanted views of help Cause. I just put someone on ignore list who had previously attacked me, when I returned the favour, they came over a public clan threatening me and calling me a ton of names and denying attacking me. The shit gets old. I really wish these people could just be killed without worry because they're dragging the fun out of the game.

Kayeil

I think issues should just be used for blatant, repeated breaking of the rules or constant harassment.

Sometimes when it gets to the point of someone breaking the rules and you know they know better, I've found it's just better to point them to the correct scroll and paragraph. They might get a little huffy, but then they're aware you know and that if they keep doing it to you they're going into territory that could lead into an issue. So they usually stop, and problem is solved. Also, issuing yourself for clarification before issuing someone else in many cases is often the best course of action because you might find you just had a really bad temper at the moment and wanted revenge, or there was just a misunderstanding of what the rules really are. Use issues sparingly, and do your best to handle things in an IC manner. It'll make the admins a lot happier, and your fellow players.

Jarrod

The problem with issues, as I've said before in previous ranting threads, is that it's extremely easy to lie when you're issuing someone, or be exceptionally vague about what they've done while using highly charged words to make it seem significantly worse than reality. Using phrases like, "repeatedly harassed me over recent weeks" says absolutely nothing about what interactions actually happened, but paints the target of the issue in a very bad light. The kicker is that it's then on the person who was issued to disprove the lies and clear up the facts. It's not enough to say "This didn't happen" when you're being accused of repeated harassment and various other things (all of which I've been accused of and never punished for), you have to be able to specifically indicate the lack of interactions, or the extent of any interactions that did happen. Whether the person said anything at the time, whether they instigated any given fight, etc.

If you're someone who draws issues you have to either have a very good memory of excessively hold onto logs to be able to protect yourself from people who would outright lie about what you've done in an attempt to get you punished. The truly annoying thing, to me, is when you clearly and concisely state why the initial issue is a lie, and the person deletes it. It should not be possible to delete an issue that has been replied to, regardless of later circumstances. Fortunately, in extreme situations I've seen there is some level of admin-crackdown. I was once issued for killing someone when I attacked them less than 8 seconds after they were inside Ashtan as an enemy. When I pointed out the facts (and dispelled multiple lies about regular harassment which never happened), it got deleted. I later found out the issue I put in against them for attempting to lie and abuse OOC methods to punish other players was upheld.

Herenicus

In fairness, we have had some real dicks go down to issues over the years, usually people who translated some OOC coding interest or credit purchase into a justification for their corresponding lack of social graces. In order to generate cause on noncoms, English majors, or people who just don't get into the PK game, these creeps would cast about the very finest CoD taunts and insults like maladjusted Johnny Appleseeds. 

Jarrod

Oh, don't get me wrong, issues have taken out some real trolls over the years.

Interestingly, the list of people who frivolously issue and the list of people who have been done in by issues bears some similarities.

Jinsun

Before we get into the usefulness of issues to ban trolls I think it's time for a little PSA Dajio still plays Achaea. That is all.

Xith

This should have been its own thread a couple of pages ago. 

But I would not object to issues being a long-lasting, but non-permanent, stain on someone's credibility from the issuers side only. It would serve to show people that you whine a lot and have a hair trigger. 

Essentially a "does not play well with others" badge. Using the issue system for any individual vendetta that couldn't be resolved logically through IC means and checking the relevant HELP implies simply that. 
The issuee should receive an equal stain if found 'guilty'. 

The only time an accuser should not be penalized is in a GROUP ISSUE, sort of class-action issue by multiple directly affected parties, where the accused is also found guilty and the issue upheld. 
If the Group is wrong and the issue denied, they should all bear the scarlet "I" for a time. 

Amanu

Was hoping for Memorable Quotes. Did I click the wrong thread?

Silas

Issues should be deleted. Make it harder for people to cry foul and they'll think more before they do so.

Nim

It sounds like issuees typically need to basically disprove the issue, Phoenix Wright style or something. Do issuers need to provide proof (eg. logs, witness statements, signed letters that need lab equipment to show the real original authorship, an attourney badge, etc.)? Burden of proof is important, and if it affects you enough that you feel you should issue someone, it can't be that difficult to get it, but I hear people complaining about vague issues all the time...

Addama

When an issue is a slam-dunk, it's because you can provide logs that prove that exactly what you're complaining about happened in exactly the way you're describing it.

When an issue is not a slam-dunk - when it doesn't actually violate the rules as phrased - people tend to omit the logs in hopes that the mod responding is having a bad day or something.

Classic example:

http://www.achaea.com/forum/an-issue

Riashain

Lawyered.

Silas

Man, I miss Grieffel, Ruki and Lideron.

tek

Jeslyn

You always make me laugh with your markets...

(Market): Jonesey says, "Selling 1 polished obsidian dickbottom."

 You tell Jonesey: Is that even a thing?! 

Jonesey tells You: It is when i spell it wrong.

(Market): Jonesey says, "Apparently im not allowed to sell that... selling a polished obsidian 

discbottom.

Jonesey tells You: Wanna buy it.

You tell Jonesey: Not sure If I can do obsidian dick bottoms. Not my type. -grin-

Jonesey tells You: *censored for the young eyes*

Santar

Silas said:

Man, I miss Grieffel, Ruki and Lideron.

tek

 

Lideron was logged on this week.

Kresslack

Santar said:

Silas said:

Man, I miss Grieffel, Ruki and Lideron.

tek

 

Lideron was logged on this week.

Lideron has been logging in for at least a month now.

Mathonwy

@Saeva Aristata, Purifier eerily asks Herenicus in Mhaldorian, "How do you feel about mimes, Dynamis?"

@Herenicus turns slowly from Andraste, facing Saeva with a blank stare.

Herenicus wordlessly lifts his hands to his throat and begins to squeeze, his eyes bulging in their sockets.

Deladan

( Clan ): Dji jokingly says, "You're immune to physical damage now."
( Clan ): You say, "Don't say that."
( Clan ): You say, "Ashtan will come push my face in."
( Clan ): Dji says, "They will anyhow."
( Clan ): You say, "Yeah."
( Clan ): Dji says, "They're Ashtan."
( Clan ): You say, "I know."
( Clan ): Dji says, "They're like America and relics are their oil."
( Clan ): Dji says, "You're gonna get a big dose of freedom."
( Clan ): You say, "Lol."
( Clan ): You say, "Right in the ass."
( Clan ): Dji says, "That's where freedom goes."

Cynlael

Guess that means he loves them.

Kalam

I'm not sure if this is random and was just great timing, but I laughed

A nearly invisible magical shield forms around an atavian warrior.

01:50:36 1835h, 3153m, 11600e, 14553w x-

01:50:37 Walking slowly, with muscles tensed and prepared for combat, this atavian warrior gazes at you with cold unfriendly eyes. Wings folded across his back, soiled and very powerful from flying most of his time, he moves with a certainty, as if his very presence should warn this intruder and convince you to leave or face his wrath. Wielding a massive halberd in his hands, he stands resolute and keen.

01:50:37 An atavian warrior seems strong and confident.

01:50:37 He has 17% health remaining.

01:50:37 He weighs about 100 pounds.

01:50:37 He is loyal to Genji.

01:50:37 You see nothing in it.

01:50:37 1835h, 3153m, 11600e, 14553w x-

01:50:37 

01:50:37 You have recovered equilibrium.

01:50:37 1835h, 3153m, 11600e, 14553w ex-

01:50:38 You whisper, "Demolior."

01:50:38 1835h, 3153m, 11600e, 14553w ex-

01:50:38 You have emoted: Kalam flourishes with an elemental staff.

01:50:38 1835h, 3153m, 11600e, 14553w ex-

01:50:38 You cast a spell of erosion at an atavian warrior.

01:50:38 His shield defence is eroded away.

01:50:38 1835h, 3078m, 11600e, 14538w x-

01:50:38 "Bleh," an atavian warrior says to you, as he rolls his eyes in disgust.

Halos

               ** The Foozling Contest has begun! **               
               ---- NOTE: this is a NON-PK EVENT ----    

Madelyne arrives from the up.
She is followed by a black Dardanic stallion, a dusky grey Dardanic mare, a dappled Dardanic filly, a mahogany swallow, a roiling fire sprite, a squirrel monkey, a dainty ice sprite, a blue roan, an energetic little chipmunk, a slimy Ulangian slug, a rambunctious ferret, a frisky goat kid, an alabaster pegasus, a young two-toed sloth, a miniature snowy owl, a powerful black destrier, a Kamleikan snow kitten, a spindly giraffe calf, a clouded leopard cub, a sure-footed garron, an Inbhir terrier puppy, a Baarian tiger cub, a desert hedgehog, a tiny piglet, a red-handed tamarin, an ivory peryton, a skittish meerkat, a black squirrel, a giant tortoise, a sooty Dardanic colt, a Sangrean sheepdog puppy, a black tarantula, an inquisitive bear cub, a crystal spiderling, a crested penguin, Peabody, the pink flamingo, a roseate-maned pony, a plump, tangerine-winged quail, a grey cockatiel, a brightly coloured hermit crab, a swift ghost bat, a woolly lamb, a Cyrenian elk, a dark chestnut jousting stallion, a majestic stag, a llama cria, a silvered reindeer, a playful budgie, a Dun Valley wildcat kitten, a star-nosed mole pup, a crimson paradise bird, a dingo pup, a pygmy jarbo, an elegant Mysian parrot, a yellow-bellied marmot, a small armadillo, a forest bat, a pileated gibbon, a dirangi cub, a delicate storm-grey mare, a spirited cremello stallion, a reticulated giraffe, a brilliant rainbow skink, a squat humgii, a golden gryphon, a Thalassan kitten, a dainty gazelle, a white coyote pup, a zebra finch, a brown, floppy-eared bunny, a desert fox kit, a regal golden charger, a curious pangolin, and a tough-looking hellcat.

Madelyne leaves to the southwest.
She is followed by a black Dardanic stallion, a dusky grey Dardanic mare, a dappled Dardanic filly, a mahogany swallow, a roiling fire sprite, a squirrel monkey, a dainty ice sprite, a blue roan, an energetic little chipmunk, a slimy Ulangian slug, a rambunctious ferret, a frisky goat kid, an alabaster pegasus, a young two-toed sloth, a miniature snowy owl, a powerful black destrier, a Kamleikan snow kitten, a spindly giraffe calf, a clouded leopard cub, a sure-footed garron, an Inbhir terrier puppy, a Baarian tiger cub, a desert hedgehog, a tiny piglet, a red-handed tamarin, an ivory peryton, a skittish meerkat, a black squirrel, a giant tortoise, a sooty Dardanic colt, a Sangrean sheepdog puppy, a black tarantula, an inquisitive bear cub, a crystal spiderling, a crested penguin, Peabody, the pink flamingo, a roseate-maned pony, a plump, tangerine-winged quail, a grey cockatiel, a brightly coloured hermit crab, a swift ghost bat, a woolly lamb, a Cyrenian elk, a dark chestnut jousting stallion, a majestic stag, a llama cria, a silvered reindeer, a playful budgie, a Dun Valley wildcat kitten, a star-nosed mole pup, a crimson paradise bird, a dingo pup, a pygmy jarbo, an elegant Mysian parrot, a yellow-bellied marmot, a small armadillo, a forest bat, a pileated gibbon, a dirangi cub, a delicate storm-grey mare, a spirited cremello stallion, a reticulated giraffe, a brilliant rainbow skink, a squat humgii, a golden gryphon, a Thalassan kitten, a dainty gazelle, a white coyote pup, a zebra finch, a brown, floppy-eared bunny, a desert fox kit, a regal golden charger, a curious pangolin, and a tough-looking hellcat.

my eyes )X

Nim

does she even have to like, go anywhere to win foozle contests?

she could just like, sit alone in a room, and be like, oh, a flamingo? got that, next card. an elk? bam! next card! wow, a reindeer AND a llama, two!

and like, win all the points without even moving