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Comments
Penwize has cowardly forfeited the challenge to mortal combat issued by Atalkez.
If you were actually at full health and then dead (as opposed to full health, then almost dead from Rom's inundate and dead .3 seconds later), then you were probable reckless, which can happen from alchemist.
My mana wasn't at full, however, so... I know I didn't go from full to 0, but was at full, then REALLY low (like in the 100-500 range) and then Proficy smacked my ass and got the kill. But y i k e s.
It was just sensi choleric inundate, I messed up my damage followup so Proficy got it.
Come join the Achaea discord!
Come join the Achaea discord!
https://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/jpKcY6Qa
This kind of shit should, at the very least, take more then -three doublewhirls- of prep to pull off. Heck, I have as much health as some dragon level people, it should at least take some damned artifact flails.
</3 Leather Armour
That's four doublewhirls, all of which get some degree of bonus damage, followed by two torso assaults, which would be doable against anyone with that amount of health. I'm not sure that somewhat better blunt resist is enough to really deal with that.
http://forums.achaea.com/discussion/15/combat-logs/p471
Some defenses: Smoke rebounding when you are prone, tumble through wall, that effectively eats away ~2s of balance, which may screw up his attempt.
Tested with Mindshell, using L3s, the mangle range threshold is about >8200 health. But not everyone uses L3s. With forged, as I tested with Kuroji, seems to be around ~6500 health, havn't really tested indepth, if you have more than 6500 health you will be out of mangle range. 6500 health is high requirement I know. When I say mangle range, I am referring to 3 hits with flails to mangle an already damaged limb.
DWB now is so health-sensitive:
- If you are above 8500 health, the only way remaining is pulp. Out of mangle range and damage won't work.
- Some classes with prone healing abilities can be immune to damage path forever, tested this in many fights.
- If the remaining way is pulp, pulp is not a guaranteed kill like all other prep-based kill paths, attempts to defend can screw it up.
- If you are running lower health, DWB becomes overwhelming.
I hope more attention is given to DWB, not just bloody nerf it, but to actually give it more thoughts and design, more options. Just don't make it shikudo with affs, don't want to end up with everything hybrid.
@keorin Don't nerf your own housemates!! lol
1) Quick prep and mangle is needed as DWB has zero hindrance. Quick prep a required defence against momentum classes, to prone and break to buy time to cure down, DWB still has to manage this skillfully in the face of quick affs like DW, Apostates, Serp's burst etc.
2) Quick mangle, ie 3-flail mangle, is required to buy DWB time to gather momentum against hindrance heavy classes, allowing DWB to start pulp sequence with 3 mo rather than full 8 mo (mo decay is a glaring issue against hindrance heavy class). Also as serve as variety to work around pulp's suboptimal curing and defense.
3) So limb damage bonus is needed. Health bonus damage DWL on already broken limbs, on the other hand, as expressed by @Aerek, can be scaled down. At least forces DWB to complete their sequence, rather than accidentally outdamaging while executing. DWB also doesn't need the health pressure from prep. I think a good way is to shift health bonus hitting on broken limb towards assault damage, as assault is at the end game anyway.
https://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/FwNQ_i7B
Is the result if I tried going damage path against him decently defending.
Nevermind, works now, probably a browser issue
You must have light stepper, or some artie masking your 15 dex and are mounted
Iakimen finishes sketching a thurisaz rune with a flourish.
Iakimen ceases to wield a Shield of Absorption in his left hand.
Iakimen begins to wield a Scimitar of Hawks in his left hand.
Iakimen slashes into your right leg with a Scimitar of Hawks.
Your right leg is greatly damaged from the beating.
Your insomnia has cleared up.
Iakimen swings a Scimitar of Hawks at your right leg with all his might.
You dodge nimbly out of the way.
Iakimen moves in to engage you. (1.648s)
I forgot how bad dwc could be, his prone leg break missed. But you pretty much ignored the leg break and kept prepping
Both of your legs must be free and unhindered to do that.
Iakimen is at 6207/6859. |||||||||||||||||||||||||||--- 90% hp
right arm | You whip Southern Frost, a Vashnarian morningstar toward the right arm of Iakimen.
A jolt runs up your arm as the runes upon your weapon discharge energy into Iakimen.
right arm | You whip Southern Glacier, a Vashnarian morningstar toward the right arm of Iakimen.
You are little more than a blur.
That said, is to demonstrate defensive play can mitigate dwb damage assault path, guess I assaulted him x2, twice, he survived and stood. Finally I went with pulp, had him all prepped, got into nairat, lost the mo, and then came his turn to execute perfectly.
1. Pulp is in an incredibly strong place right now. It's an almost impossible to avoid instant kill that can be done with three limbs of prep. The momentum requirement is a limitation, sure, but pulp doesn't exactly need more measures to get around curing and defense, or the ability to be started off of next to no momentum buildup.
2. We're talking primarily about people with high health levels, but the extra limb damage makes it completely impossible to fight dual blunt at levels that used to be considered a decent point to start combat. Anything below 4k health or so, for instance, can be permanently manglelocked off a single beak by forged flails, which is essentially impossible to fight against.
3. Shifting damage from doublewhirl to assault isn't really a great solution either, because of how easily flail breaks lead into assault. The double mangle into double torso assault path we've been talking about is silly because it only requires two prepped legs and three momentum and has essentially no counterplay available, other then pulling out your credit card, and boosting assault's burst damage at the end would keep that just as lethal. Dual blunt may need fast breaks for hinder, but that doesn't mean it needs to be able to prep a reliable kill in only 4 doublewhirls.
In my mind, the operative question is how many prepped limbs should dual blunt require to be lethal. Right now, pulp keeps them incredibly lethal against most anyone at three limbs of prep, and then flails give them an alternative that works against huge health ranges off of only two limbs. I think the solution isn't just moving damage numbers, but separating the quick breaks needed for hinder from the quick breaks that lead into quick kills.
Results of disembowel testing | Knight limb counter | GMCP AB files
In my experience with DWB, there's a massive difference between fighting it as a Knight and fighting it as a lower resistance class. A Knight who has nairat plus full plate/algiz and 6800 health isn't something everyone can imitate.
I remember fighting DWB as serpent, and the sheer damage from engage made the tumble probably hurt me more than it helped.
I don't know that mechanically the middle range is a problem other than having to restart your offence. Tanking the entire execution up until the very final assault in a path that is intended to be the flail alternative to pulp should be indicative of the tight balancing. For those of us with some arties on us, that path isn't even an option for the class since we can tank that outright mitigating it entirely to a defensive breather.
1) Don't let DWB kill people standing.
2) Don't let DWB kill people with just mangles.
3) If damage is a path, at least, bring it further to assault, that is a VERY long sequence exceeding more than 12s, giving room for defensive play, all sorts of variables and chances for DWB to screw up.
4) Do not adjust quick break / 3 flail mangles, cos that's "Essentially DWB".
I generally like to get to know someone before I get fucked that hard, but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯