Combat Logs

Aquil

Ankhareoutef said:

https://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/5348f695

I think I should have restored instead of tumbled, but what else should I do in this situation?

Pre restore, tumble earlier, restore then mind game with mending applications after you dodge the first vivisect. Aerek, Xer, Hasar, and Tirac off the top of my head had amazing vivisect mind games after they properly cured the first vivisect. Since if you're 2L1A (two leg one arm) prepped then there's a second chance to be vivisected if you don't cure the second wave of epteth right.

Armali

The counter to vivisect is:

1) remember to restore after the second break
2) NEVER apply restoration when: you're not being impaled AND your rebounding is down AND you're not on equilibrium (and thus can't restore).

Aerek

Ankhareoutef said:

https://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/5348f695

I think I should have restored instead of tumbled, but what else should I do in this situation?

I don't get why your system thought your right arm was damaged as well when he broke the left? That's something that could throw off any curing logic you built, even if you built it right.

Ankhareoutef

Aerek said:

Ankhareoutef said:

https://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/5348f695

I think I should have restored instead of tumbled, but what else should I do in this situation?

I don't get why your system thought your right arm was damaged as well when he broke the left? That's something that could throw off any curing logic you built, even if you built it right.

I'm not sure either.  I noticed it, too.  I've just chalked it up to a bug, and hope to find it again so I have a little more knowledge about it.

Mizik

My RESTORE alias pauses system and smokes rebound. Then when they break #3 I apply a single mending (apply mending, doesn't show limb healed, usually not highlighted) and we both just sit there while either I get eq or rebounding comes up. Then restore again on the 4th DSL if necessary.

Amranu

Doesn't that leave you wide open for dsb?

Exelethril

Most of the time, you don't actually have to "smoke rebound", unless you already have it off keepup by default for limb counting purposes. So the window which rebounding pops up is pretty random and unpredictable within the rebounding time frame.

You can just do the standard restore on EQ/don't apply resto while off EQ/just apply mending and never get vivi'd. I like the idea of forcing restore on 3rd break with an off-hand epseth apply with (leg -> arm -> arm) into riftlock with a heavy venom stack, since they'll be prone and just eating DSLs for awhile.

Didn't do the math or think it through though.

Antonius

Exelethril said:

I like the idea of forcing restore on 3rd break with an off-hand epseth apply with (leg -> arm -> arm) into riftlock with a heavy venom stack, since they'll be prone and just eating DSLs for awhile.

Didn't do the math or think it through though.

Easy enough to force the restore if they do it automatically, but maybe not if they do it manually (unless they panic). If you can't vivisect me after the second doubleslash, I don't really need to restore at all; I can just wait for my leg to finish curing a tiny bit after the third doubleslash, apply mending twice, then stand up and fly out.

No need to eat bloodroot for paralysis if you're prone with damaged/mangled legs, either, so may be hard to get sufficient affliction momentum to get a riftlock (though most people likely don't ignore paralysis/push other afflictions ahead of it on prone + damaged/mangled legs).

Farrah

Dunn said:

Bleak misses you with his dirk by a hair.
Striking like a snake, Bleak follows the first attack with another.
You feel a tightening sensation grow in your lungs.
4643h, 5315m, 21295e, 24695w cekdb-1k
Willibrord, an undersized black raven wounds you with a glancing cut.
Your mind feels suddenly vacant as Revius, the black raven levels its gaze at
you.
4571h, 5315m, 21305e, 24695w cekdb-1k (-72h)
What do you want to eat?
4571h, 5315m, 21305e, 24695w cekdb-1k
4571h, 5315m, 21305e, 24695w cekdb-1k
You remove 1 aurum, bringing the total in the Rift to 1387.
4571h, 5315m, 21305e, 24695w cekdb-1k
You eat an aurum flake.
Your bronchial tubes open up and your asthma is cured.
4571h, 5315m, 21305e, 24695w cekdb-
You have recovered balance on all limbs.
[System]: Running queued eqbal command: QUEUEALIAS
You quickly prick Bleak with your dirk. [Curare + Vernalius]
Striking like a snake, you prick Bleak a second time with your dirk.
Horror overcomes Bleak's face as his body stiffens into paralysis.
4571h, 5315m, 21295e, 24695w cekdb-
You may check someone for afflictions once again.
4571h, 5315m, 21295e, 24695w cekdb-
[Bleak ATE BLOODROOT]
4571h, 5315m, 21295e, 24695w cekdb-
Bleak misses you with his dirk by a hair.
Striking like a snake, Bleak follows the first attack with another.
You feel a tightening sensation grow in your lungs.

This is why you need to swap curare positions when clumsy.

Why swap rather than just always envenoming curare second? Seems simpler.

Dunn

I just have it first in case I rebound. The curare first cancels the second venom from rebounding on me. 

Farrah

Dunn said:

I just have it first in case I rebound. The curare first cancels the second venom from rebounding on me. 

No. You'd want it to hit first, which is still envenom second.

Dunn

I meant I have curare hitting first. Envenom second is my default and I swap it to first if clumsy. It got really confusing to code because of the single weapon double venom thing. 

Farrah

If your first stab misses, you still want curare envenomed second, assuming you want curare to be the venom that hits, because the venom isn't used up when you miss, so whatever is envenomed second and ordinarily hits first is what will hit second if first misses, no?

Antonius

Yes. Basically always want to be doing DSTAB X CURARE. In that case, curare will be first. If you hit rebounding, you'll get paralysis only. If you miss the first stab, they'll get paralysis only (because missing shouldn't use up the venom). If neither, they get both (paralysis first, then whatever aff X gives).

(It sure would be more intuitive if command order corresponded to the order they hit in...)

Exelethril

Antonius said:

Exelethril said:

I like the idea of forcing restore on 3rd break with an off-hand epseth apply with (leg -> arm -> arm) into riftlock with a heavy venom stack, since they'll be prone and just eating DSLs for awhile.

Didn't do the math or think it through though.

Easy enough to force the restore if they do it automatically, but maybe not if they do it manually (unless they panic). If you can't vivisect me after the second doubleslash, I don't really need to restore at all; I can just wait for my leg to finish curing a tiny bit after the third doubleslash, apply mending twice, then stand up and fly out.

No need to eat bloodroot for paralysis if you're prone with damaged/mangled legs, either, so may be hard to get sufficient affliction momentum to get a riftlock (though most people likely don't ignore paralysis/push other afflictions ahead of it on prone + damaged/mangled legs).

Yah, I guess it boils down to whether someone auto-restores or not. Come to think of it.. having a trigger that lowers para prio on prone + damaged/mangled legs, then swaps back is a really good idea.

I think a focus lock before breaks might be necessary to offset the aff momentum loss from double delph/1 epseth (though maggots do help lots).

Dunn

Good points @ envenoming. The input on the command should probably reflect hit order to avoid this confusion, though. Just had to write it out to see where I was wrong 

Ankhareoutef

Thank you guys for all the vivi input! I'll have to find an infernal that will duel me a couple times instead of winning once and running off

Aegoth

called out. Ouch

Klendathu

Dunn said:

Good points @ envenoming. The input on the command should probably reflect hit order to avoid this confusion, though. Just had to write it out to see where I was wrong 

I don't see why it's so difficult. Consider it like layers. The top layer (applied last) has to come off first.

How did all you speed knights pre-envenom rapiers?

Dunn

It's the tracking of order vs the syntax that is dissonant. Pre envenoming two separate weapons makes a lot of sense with your logic because you're just taking the top layer from each. 

Aerek

It's not difficult, it's just inconsistent with other modern in-line envenoming options. Modern combat doesn't often apply things in layers anymore, it usually takes advantage of the in-line envenoming feature to apply as you attack, which was implemented for player convenience and new-player friendliness:

• DSL Knight: DSL TARGET VENOM1 VENOM2, with venom1 applied to the left sword (hits first) and venom2 on the right sword. (hits second) 
• SNB Knight: COMBO TARGET VENOM1 SHIELDTECH, with venom1 hitting before the shield does.
• Old Serpent: DSTAB TARGET VENOM1 VENOM2
• Apostate: DEADEYES TARGET AFFLICTION1 AFFLICTION2
• Alchemist: TRUEWRACK TARGET AFFLICTION1 AFFLICTION2
• Sylvan: SYNCHRONISE AFFLICTION1 AFFLICTION2 TARGET
• Shaman: JINX AFFLICTION1 AFFLICTION2 TARGET

In all of these cases, venom1 hits before venom2; it's designed that way. Serpent is just suddenly an outlier, where DSTAB TARGET VENOM1 VENOM2 hits with the second venom first. Yes, the envenoming mechanics are the same as they always have been, and yes, all that's needed is to flip the order you send them, but that's not really the point. The point is that a consistent system used by all venom/aff-using classes is now inconsistent in regard to one class, and when the whole point of in-line envenoming is to make things easier and more intuitive for new/old players to pick up and fight with, that kinda defeats its own purpose.

No one is saying it's "too hard". Seasoned combatants are just saying, "Hey, this feature implemented for our convenience would be more convenient if it understood envenoming mechanics and applied them in the logical order, so that it behaved like every other class that uses this same feature."

Klendathu

Clearly just me who sees it differently then. The rest of you are loopy.

Klendathu

Bah, too late to edit (BSOD whilst editing). All of the examples above are mechanically different to applying two venoms to a single weapon. Indeed. in many cases, not even venom related.

Bleak

This is weird on many levels.

Before two towering mountains (road).
[north - Leviticus (1)]

A noxious, red-hued fog overwhelms the area with a thick, palpable vapour. Dawn breaks across the 

land, the sky and its sparse clouds lit in fiery hues by the rising sun. A rune resembling a horse 

has been sketched into the ground here (raido: return location). An occupied iron gibbet, suspended 

from a wooden gallows, creaks ominously in the breeze. A decaying corpse has been impaled here upon 

a fifteen foot stake. A runic totem is planted solidly in the ground. Duelist Leviticus Aristata is 

here. His features are obscured by an oval mask.

You see exits leading north, southwest, and up.

Your blindness is cured by a wunjo rune on a totem.

Your attention is grabbed and held by a fascinating butterfly-like rune.

6472h, 8021m, 27438e, 32071w cexkd[transf]-(-138m, 1.7%) (eat bayberry|writhe)

Willibrord, an undersized black raven hurls himself futilely at some gold sovereigns's shield, 

becoming enraged as he is unable to strike at some gold sovereigns.

Revius, the black raven hurls himself futilely at Leviticus's shield, becoming enraged as he is 

unable to strike at Leviticus.

6472h, 8021m, 27438e, 32071w cexkd[transf]-

You eat some bayberry bark.

Your eyes dim as you lose your sight.

You begin trying to wrest your mind free of that which has transfixed it.

6472h, 8021m, 27438e, 32071w cekdb[transf]-

You have recovered balance on all limbs.

You are transfixed and cannot do that. You must writhe to escape.

You are transfixed and cannot do that. You must writhe to escape. (0.884s)

6472h, 8006m, 27438e, 32071w cexkdb[transf]-

(svof): Will keep block up.

(block n)

You may eat another plant or mineral. (1.523s)

6472h, 8302m, 27438e, 32071w cexkdb[transf]-(+296m, 3.6%) 

You move over to block the north exit.

6472h, 8302m, 27428e, 32071w cexkdb[transf]-

You continue trying to wrest your mind free.

6472h, 8302m, 27428e, 32071w cexkdb[transf]-

(Project 9): Averitti says, "Youh C *hic* an eVeen be the giro."

6472h, 8302m, 27428e, 32089w cexkdb[transf]-

Leviticus leaves to the north.

Aegoth

can't block while transfixed hombre

Armali

IIRC, you can't block while prone, writhe-affed, or paralyzed.

Antonius

You were still transfixed, so not actually capable of preventing movement even though you had block up. Makes sense to me.

Bleak

But why are my birds attacking some gold sovereigns?

Antonius

Because sometimes the code gets confused and says the wrong thing even when they're attacking the right thing.

Aegoth

Because your birds are greedy cunts