Combat Logs

Deladan

Ainly said:

Artefacts cost a lot of $.  I would be sad if after spending thousands of dollars on them they didn't give us an edge against people who didn't.  Artefacts make people more powerful.  Tale as old as time. Tune as old as song.

I quote this only because I have spent a lot of money on artefacts. As a serpent I have 16 dex(500 cr for pixie boots) and level 2 dirk(800 credits) then artifacts to tank... and I'm still outpaced by apostates and Alchemists and they're tankier than me without artefacts....

Xinna

I didn't have arties until about 1.5 years ago and pretty sure I was still considered "top tier" in 1v1, albeit an lolscrub in group combat. I was at least competitive with the artied fighters. 

Classes -have- changed since then but I'm pretty sure I could top tier apostate in current Achaea unartied. Ayoxele didn't lose because he couldn't tank as apo. He just didn't -have- current apo and old apo had major offensive weaknesses.

A lot of classes are either too squishy or too weak offensively unartied though, yeah. Especially after forging rework.

Makarios

No real objections to reevaluating some of dwb next classlead round (should be soon). Can't promise anything before then because of year 700 and such taking most of our attention currently.

Ainly

Deladan said:

Ainly said:

Artefacts cost a lot of $.  I would be sad if after spending thousands of dollars on them they didn't give us an edge against people who didn't.  Artefacts make people more powerful.  Tale as old as time. Tune as old as song.

I quote this only because I have spent a lot of money on artefacts. As a serpent I have 16 dex(500 cr for pixie boots) and level 2 dirk(800 credits) then artifacts to tank... and I'm still outpaced by apostates and Alchemists and they're tankier than me without artefacts....

I always found that no matter what class I have been, there is always one or two other classes that have a natural advantage against me.

Exelethril

Can we reevaluate peels + rubble against momentum classes too?

Jarrod

Make a note to classlead it if you think it's a problem.

Deladan

Ainly said:

Deladan said:

Ainly said:

Artefacts cost a lot of $.  I would be sad if after spending thousands of dollars on them they didn't give us an edge against people who didn't.  Artefacts make people more powerful.  Tale as old as time. Tune as old as song.

I quote this only because I have spent a lot of money on artefacts. As a serpent I have 16 dex(500 cr for pixie boots) and level 2 dirk(800 credits) then artifacts to tank... and I'm still outpaced by apostates and Alchemists and they're tankier than me without artefacts....

I always found that no matter what class I have been, there is always one or two other classes that have a natural advantage against me.

I agree with some classes having a natural advantage. I get that, but when you buy arties for one purpose (Speed in this case) I feel as if that advantage should vanish somewhat. However that's not the case. 

Jovolo

Well, the advantage does get diminished but it's relative. Deadeyes is 2.1-2.2, serp unartied is around 2.4. With the stats you mentioned your stab is going to be 1.8. I think that's a reasonable close of the gap from buying artefacts. 

Deladan

Jovolo said:

Well, the advantage does get diminished but it's relative. Deadeyes is 2.1-2.2, serp unartied is around 2.4. With the stats you mentioned your stab is going to be 1.8. I think that's a reasonable close of the gap from buying artefacts. 

1.8-2.0 

Deladan

Deladan said:

Jovolo said:

Well, the advantage does get diminished but it's relative. Deadeyes is 2.1-2.2, serp unartied is around 2.4. With the stats you mentioned your stab is going to be 1.8. I think that's a reasonable close of the gap from buying artefacts. 

1.8-2.0 

And apostates have ways to give additional afflictions along side the deadseyes that doesn't really slow them down either. I understand I have a serpent, but that thing dies in 2 hits lol. 

Atalkez

Actually the snake is quite tanky. If you're focusing on my snake you're probably gonna get locked before it dies.

Deladan

Atalkez said:

Actually the snake is quite tanky. If you're focusing on my snake you're probably gonna get locked before it dies.

Hit snake, walk out, hit snake, walk out... That's all they gotta do. Mainly because serpent has no real way to stop people from getting away from them. You can block, but that's only good for one exit. Icewalls < Mountjump,evade,backflip etc. 

Dochitha

Deladan said:

Atalkez said:

Actually the snake is quite tanky. If you're focusing on my snake you're probably gonna get locked before it dies.

Hit snake, walk out, hit snake, walk out... That's all they gotta do. Mainly because serpent has no real way to stop people from getting away from them. You can block, but that's only good for one exit. Icewalls < Mountjump,evade,backflip etc. 

Pinshot too. Snake is helpful, can still fight without it. But yeah if people keep moving away like that, no point fighting them, except your a prep class.

Jovolo

Deladan said:

Deladan said:

Jovolo said:

Well, the advantage does get diminished but it's relative. Deadeyes is 2.1-2.2, serp unartied is around 2.4. With the stats you mentioned your stab is going to be 1.8. I think that's a reasonable close of the gap from buying artefacts. 

1.8-2.0 

And apostates have ways to give additional afflictions along side the deadseyes that doesn't really slow them down either. I understand I have a serpent, but that thing dies in 2 hits lol. 

Hypnosis too tbf

Cynlael

Chasing them when they run works, too...

Kiet

No offense Deladan but of the few issues that serpent has, 'afflicts too slow' isn't one of them when artied.

Xinna

Yeah hypnosis is passive, chosen afflictions, in addition to random afflictions from snake.

Apostate has minor afflictions passively from one or two entities, and I guess sometimes daegger, but that can be prevented (one of which requires an additional affliction (undeaf) to use). They're useful, but I wouldn't say it's clearly better than serpent's passive capabilities, in addition to artied serpent afflicting faster actively.

Serpent's weakness is obviously that it only gets impatience once, sans hypochondria. But its affliction rate is really good.

Jarrod

If they try to kill your serpent they also get 3x loki when they kill it.

Deladan

Hypnosis is great when you can pull it off, but that too is all left to getting lucky... I've failed on the same person 5 times in a row with trans hypno before finally getting it. You can keep the serpent perma paralyzed and they never even get a suggestion off for the hypno...  That's to top off being able to slow serpents down by simply smoking skullcap or touching shield at the right time.(Or complete stop by just touching shield over and over again.) Where as Apostates don't have to worry about that. And remember we're talking straight out the box tritrans apostate vs artied serp... take them both to unartied levels and clearly apostate is better overall. It's tankier, can keep targets in room better, and isn't slowed by the same things that serpent is. 

Cooper

If you think hypnosis is something that you have to 'pull it off' and that it is 'luck', then you should probably change class.

Deladan

Target is too perceptive for your hypnotic skill. You hurriedly cease your attempts before being noticed. happens more often than I'd like even with Trans hypno. Then if you actually get 

You fix Target with an entrancing stare, and smile in satisfaction as you realise that his mind is yours. They can just walk out of the room for a few seconds and you have to start right back over. 

Kafziel

I actually agree with Deladan that against vigilance hypno is pretty annoying. Not game breakingly but still annoying

Mizik

Yeah that's a class lead focus for all Serp combatants. Hypnotise is retarded. 

Atalkez

Hypnosis at Trans needs to either never fail, or be able to suggest paralysed. I think that would alleviate a bunch of the issues of starting out a fight half-prepped just trying to get hypnosis.

People have told me "stab while you hypno", which is like doing two things at 50% and expecting a good result. You can't lock without hypno sealed and ready to go, and there's really no point in ever stabbing without hypno ready that I've seen.

Sobriquet

Maybe stab with curare/kalmia to slow them down and check curing priorities? But otherwise agree.

Atalkez

Curare/Kalmia won't slow them down in one go. You'd need to do three to five dstabs to outstrip herb balance, to get 1 nearly "free" suggest. Suggest is 1.5s balance (memory serves, please correct. Not IG to test 100%), dstab is 1.8-2.2 depending on dex/dirk. If you did this repeatedly, you're wasting time stabbing because that's simply not efficient. Stab, suggest, stab, suggest, stab suggest eventually gets you: No afflictions stuck, hypnosis sealed. Takes two to three times as long as just standing there getting wailed on to hypnotise>suggest>seal doing it that way for the same net result. 

Aesi

Evade like a mofo. in, suggest til noticed (turn off reb), out, in, out.

Seemed to work out for me as far as getting a seal went.

Aquil

https://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/c6c1f102

Gotta love being able to see fucking everything but can't input shit. Also gotta love that 27 second balance on maul.
Literally just sitting there on reddit on my phone, able to use all of my internet tabs, but fucking Achaea/Mudlet decides to just sit there and not allow a single fucking input. Like this has happened to me roughly five times this week. I sit there and watch things happen and I cant input anything at all. Speedtest is saying everything is fine, I am able to browse youtube and reddit, but Mudlet just wants to not allow anything to happen.

Dochitha

Atalkez said:

Hypnosis at Trans needs to either never fail, or be able to suggest paralysed. I think that would alleviate a bunch of the issues of starting out a fight half-prepped just trying to get hypnosis.

People have told me "stab while you hypno", which is like doing two things at 50% and expecting a good result. You can't lock without hypno sealed and ready to go, and there's really no point in ever stabbing without hypno ready that I've seen.

Agree with hypnotizing off paralysis and prone, mind's job.

The pause and time required to hyp is essential for it's prep-first and choose-well mechanic, it's good, but increasing hypnosis success rate is required, convenient to the serpent, not game breaking on combat balance. People don't usually "feel" they are hypnotized anyway, why make it so hard for a serpent.

Many times I failed like 4-6 hypnosis attempts in a row, tri-trans. Doesn't hurt me, I'd just evade and try again, that's why it's pointless to keep failure rate this high.

"dude you keep evading!"

"yeah I can't hyp you, off your vigilance please".

"fine!"

Exelethril

@Aquil : I randomly DC at certain times of the day. Best solution is to always tether from phone for connective consistency when doing combat but drawback is the constant 300-400 ping. 

Kinda sucks but you learn to adapt the lag into your playstyle.