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Comments
I can't think of something much more boring to play against than this mentality, right here. (I mean the whole I'll-only-fight-in-groups-and-never-if-I-think-I'm-going-to-lose attitude, for the record)
Sometimes people don't want to duel, or have other things they'd rather be doing. It's hard to fault people for that unless they're regularly running around in like 10v1 ganksquads.
Alchemists have no 'real' way to prioritise against. Once they have you at a point where humours need to be cured, they can just lock you with truewrack affs, with intelligent tracking (even without phlegmatic route) - this basically leads to the only 'real survival tactic' be running constantly, and you have to run a lot more than the other two, if you want to reset their prep fully.
Occultist, maybe it's just because the only two 'top' Occultists are -really- good at their class (although Seragorn even switched lately because of how awkward it is), both of their strats (Josoul particularly) though were death if you stayed once you got cadmus'd (which itself is very quick to get).
Cadmus -> Hecate when ent bal is back -> whisperingmadness when they got bal back -> enlighten -> unravel, was quite literally the sequence. Yes, it was that quick, but alas, if the strat got nerfed then Occultist would be absolute ass. It's already taken the nerfbat a fuck load as it stands, because people would rather nerf a class into the ground and remove fun things, than to adapt / make alternative suggestions.
Priest, health/mana pressure at the same time 2 stronk.
Demons rite, angel spiritwrack (woo hidden justice/masochism! - yes it's 1 tick before it's realised, but that adds up) + cleansing (?) rite stripping damage reduction buffs = ow.
Coupled with earth (?) disrupt increasing herb bal to 2 seconds, which also counts on the herb that cures the disrupt = perma 2s herb bal. Balance-free diagnose <other person> before every combo = disrupts are too easy to stack. Basically any form of curing after a few rounds = you take mana damage, on top of their demons rite / occasional sap/lash for mana. Once inquisition is fired off you better gap the fuck out.
Also obligatory healing skillset complaint if you're an aff-reliant class. Yes this locks them out of doing disrupt that balance, but they still don't lose pressure since they can smite/chasten with their heal. And if you force them to bedevil, that still means you'll be fighting against your own afflictions + theirs on occasion.
I don't think I missed anything, but I might've since I'm tired as fuck. (I also may have overstated a couple of things, due to my hate for those 3 in particular, but they can still be obscenely unfun at times)
That said, they are not unbeatable. Some classes do walk over them. Some top tiers people, do outclass them consistently too.
I feel like Occie, Alchie and Priests are the 3 very well designed classes for each factions (well you need to count Sentinel to make it 4) that has the flavour to jump people and kill them quickly, and the only solution is to run, and it's hard to run away from without getting severely punished.
That's the point of multiclass, so we can change class and fight the same person without the person walking over you consistently with the same class.
aka people who can't perceive danger, or like as little risk as humanly possible, and run for the hills when all they have is two meaningless afflictions. I get that running is a perfectly viable strategy, but honestly, don't complain if people stop wanting to fight you when your running comprises 95% of the fight.
They just leave a bad taste in my mouth a lot. Unless you're a class with Evade or with some other class trick to stop them cold, it can feel like death was inevitable, (2H can feel especially futile with its choice between curing frack momentum or health damage) or that your opponent didn't kill you, Piety/Tentacles/Homunculus/Tendons did. ("That was a great fight, your RNG is on-point!" said no one ever) The best solution becomes "don't fight them", either in a figurative sense where you end up running/looping shield so often that you don't get to spend much time on offense, or in a literal sense, where you just avoid those classes. The former isn't much fun, and the latter makes you bitter.
I think the underlying design philosophy of these classes is valid, but we haven't found their balanced sweet spot, yet. Or if they are balanced, they're balanced for the top 10% and the rest of the game is kinda left without a prayer. (Either in terms of health/mana needed to survive, or in terms of scripting prowess to cure properly and survive)
Pick your battles that are going to be fun against other people. Or you can just come jump me while I'm hunting, that's also a valid tactic if you really want to kill me and it happens all the time.
On top of that, I don't see how only fighting in groups is any less of activity than fighting one on one. usually I don't even get kills in raids because I'm just a totem propper. I'm a support class, I'm there to see the raid win, not to get my solo kills that way and brag about how great I am.
It's like saying you hate those dirty RP'ers because all they do is talk and never fight. Shame on them only playing when they'll get their enjoyment out of something and never want to fight because they'll lose.
On the contrary, the way to usually see me get out and fight at all is via group combat, because despite not being terribly great or enthused by one vs. one, I actually know my group roles (apostate anyway, still learning magi) very well. Always room for improvement, but I can enter a raid confidently knowing the general things I'm supposed to be doing and looking out for.
My primary focus, however, will always be roleplay. Combat is a secondary to me, something I dabble in, and group combat allows an easier way to dabble and get involved than one vs. one does for me, personally.
As an aside, have you ever seen an apostate and priest fight? It's god awful. Like really. It's just absolutely cringe-worthy to watch. My last duel was, in fact, against a priest, and I think it lasted a full half hour (and only because they weren't an old hat to the class). Do not wish to repeat.
That love soon might end You are unbreaking
And be known in its aching Though quaking
Shown in this shaking Though crazy
Lately of my wasteland, baby That's just wasteland, baby
As someone who pretty much always plays some flavor of momentum class, the most boring fights for me are against slow preppers. I think prep v. momentum is just not designed super well because it encourages (sometimes necessitates) slow prep.
Whereas prep v. prep probably only sucks when you're fighting blademaster and they execute 50 kill setups, leaving you with -5000 willpower before you get them prepped once.
In short though, I do think which classes are least fun to fight against will vary based on your own class (and perhaps your knowledge of how to beat the opponent class).
Gotta rave your accuracy!
Oh well, next time. :chuffed: Super close though and quite lucky on @Xinna 's end.
https://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/2ea8a97d
[ SnB PvP Guide | Link ]
Opponent is prone: Health damage bonus
Opponent is prone/broken limb and you hit that limb: Health damage bonus(cumulative with the prone bonus) and a limb damage bonus.
From what I have found the limb damage bonus makes it easier to mangle a limb by about 1 hit average. So if it takes 5 hits to break a limb, then you can mangle it in 4 hits if the opponent is prone, broken and you're hitting the broken limb.
I'm still working out a limb damage formula, and I have about 300 points of data if anyone is interested in helping!
It took 3 <ability name> hits to break their leg. That's 5 individual slashes and it broke on the first slash of the 3rd hit. So when the leg was broken, it then took 3 individual slashes to mangle it, that's only one <ability name> to take the leg from broken to mangled (level 2 to level 3 break) because:
HIT LEG (1, 2)
HIT LEG (3, 4)
HIT LEG (5=break, 6)
HIT LEG (7, 8=mangle)
That's almost 100% increase in limb damage while prone?
The finishing combo was break left leg/prone, mangle left leg, assault head for kill with 2k+ damage burst. How can anyone without a stupid high amount of health survive that..? Sounds crazy
Pulp is actually a pretty devastating instant kill after some changes they made early on, in my experience. The balance on morningstars and Assault lets them achieve it even if you prio optimally; (Unless you ignore legs completely, which carries its own risks) so you have to tumble -very- quickly over a wall or some other obstacle to have a chance. Even if you avoid it, you're left vulnerable to mangled-limb damage spikes. I'd say anyone below 4500 health doesn't have much of a prayer to survive DWB damage, and even as a Algiz/Fullplate-wearing Dragon Runewarden, I fear it.
DWB's just suffers from a lack of hinder, really, since it needs max Momentum to attempt the Pulp fork, and that can feel futile against classes that can hinder it consistently or have kills that force it on the defensive often.
Seems a little much, to be honest. Sure I could have tumbled, but with 40% combos while prone even if I had tanked the 2nd combo the third would have broken me again.
Penwize has cowardly forfeited the challenge to mortal combat issued by Atalkez.
[ SnB PvP Guide | Link ]
It is a precarious balance, though. DWB can feel woefully overpowered in some instances, and woefully underpowered in others. Like Kiet said, it has to be a little ridiculous because it's not very flexible. It would probably benefit from a lower flat component to its damage, and a higher scaling component, so that it can still deal real damage to artie dragons, without instantly wtfpwn'ing <5000 health. (I have 4900 with Algiz and fullplate and still get owned pretty easily)