Combat Logs

Ernam

Mishgul said:

Without timestamps, hard to give advice on how you can improve. Especially since I know Xer is one of those people that will play mind games with you, and it looks like he might have won.

Everything (as you can see) in that log is using serverside queueing, and is with nimble, making it as fast as it possibly could be.  I was in Dragon stance up to the JPK, and have aldar diadem (for faster enfeeble, guaranteeing the second BBT before stand)

As for mind games, I don't have a clue what you mean.  He didn't do anything creative or "mind game"-ey in that entire log, aside from numbing halfway through a damage stack, which is textbook use of the ability, and has virtually no counter (provided that immediately after he stands he has about 52 ways to gtfo and avoid follow up damage, particularly considering that I was on gravehands).  I managed to get a mind crush in before he was out of range, but he still came out of it with about 40% HP.

Mishgul

How do you know what he applied to arms? What did he do when he left the room? How do you know that both his legs were broken?

Ernam

His legs were prepped to break (obviously?).

And honestly, this:

@Mishgul said:

Without timestamps, hard to give advice on how you can improve.

... not even going to touch it.

Terra

Ernam said:

Lil more "priest is OP" comments.  Can't get enough.

still haven't heard an explanation for this, but would be happy to discuss it some time in game, or in a thread.

It's been explained numerous times now, lol. Maybe you should read the responses to your questions.

Also, @Kadin I AM NOT F-iN @TESHA. WTF.

Mishgul

Ernam said:

His legs were prepped to break (obviously?).

And honestly, this:

@Mishgul said:

Without timestamps, hard to give advice on how you can improve.

... not even going to touch it.

Well you couldn't kill me while I was afk when you are were monk, whilst people like nemutaur and mizik would demolish me off making one mistake. You need advice obviously, but you don't put yourself in the best position to receive it.

That log would have been better from Xer's point of view so you could see what you were actually doing, as oppose to what you think you were doing. You assumed his legs were prepped to break. You assumed no other factors affected you outside of what you saw. You were not in a controlled environment at all.

Ernam

You... have no idea what you're talking about.

Are you proposing that he sat there, prone, applying fake salves for an extra 3 seconds, allowing me to level 2 torso break him intentionally, to play mind games?

Da fuq?

Also, when you were standing there "AFK" using shrine healing and TF'd, in infernal, employing exactly zero talent or counter-measures, and surviving almost the exact same setup, you were only strenghtening my argument that Necro damage mitigation is insanely OP.

Mizik

Earth Disrupt. 2.2s herb balance ruins my life. 

Eat/peace..........2.2s
eat/para ...........2.2s

Repeat. RIP momentum.

Defensively, why bother. Affs can't kill it (unless they're retarded and don't insta cure, but Healing so forgiving) and damage may work if three people were supplying it and Hands/Drain didn't exist. You can choose  aff you cure. That's crazy.

PS they can just walk out of Piety. lol sry

Then there's Bedevil. I can understand it as an equalizer, feel my pain. But why should it ever cure ON TOP of you just locked your target ON TOP of I can snipe heal/passive heal.

Then there's Absolve. Holy easy. It was easy when I was Priest 8 years ago. Now it's a joke.

Teams? Blahblahblah Sap/Absolve/Force

Bashing? Highest DPS in game. 

Mishgul

Ernam said:

You... have no idea what you're talking about.

Are you proposing that he sat there, prone, applying fake salves for an extra 3 seconds, allowing me to level 2 torso break him intentionally, to play mind games?

Da fuq?

Also, when you were standing there "AFK" using shrine healing and TF'd, in infernal, employing exactly zero talent or counter-measures, and surviving almost the exact same setup, you were only strenghtening my argument that Necro damage mitigation is insanely OP.

Died to other monks in similar situations. Therefore you are terrible.

Kadin

Terra said:

Ernam said:

Lil more "priest is OP" comments.  Can't get enough.

still haven't heard an explanation for this, but would be happy to discuss it some time in game, or in a thread.

It's been explained numerous times now, lol. Maybe you should read the responses to your questions.

Also, @Kadin I AM NOT F-iN @TESHA. WTF.

And that's what happens when you make one final post before you go to bed and are exhausted. Then go into the post way more than you initially planned on.  

Ernam

god, the rage.  just got awesomebombed with an award, and went back like 40 posts, can't find it.

Jovolo

@That log. According to your counter, his torso wasn't broken. It was an enfeeble, 2 bbt's and a choke. That isn't going to, and shouldn't kill anyone with access to numb. I think it's good that different tactics are necessary against diff. classes. Try putting your enfeeble at the end of your kill combo. It's seriously useless anywhere else vs numb.

Ernam

@Jovolo the "You connect!" lines didn't occur, which means a limb is at its maximum damage.  My subs make it a bit hard to see that, but it's there.  We also discussed it at length, and I had access to his side of the log at the time.  His torso was absolutely at level 2 break. (I've also posted an almost identical log on Jonesey, who tanked the entire thing as Dragon, including two post-combo mind crushes.

Also, my counter is (as it always is) set at 24 hits, that wasn't his actual breakpoint.

He may have gotten choke with breathing, but honestly it shouldn't matter.  I had 22 str at the time, which is far more than 95% of monks will ever have access to, and performed what I consider to be one of the highest damage combinations possible as a monk, and shouldn't actually be feasible considering I broke his torso with nothing but non-stop torso combos and could have easily been cured, but wasn't.

I'm not claiming that it's an amazing feat of combat wit on my part, I'm just saying that that combo is 100% avoidable, and should kill pretty much anyone, even with numb.

Pretty sure any knight complaining about someone tanking level 2 torso break DSB with level 2 torso break, with 24 str (monk doesn't have Fury), on top of trip thurisaz/hugalaz would argue that the mitigation is OP, and they'd be right.  This is no different.

Kadin

Okay so a quick update. I am managing to lock with truewrack much quicker but I will have to adopt better tracking to be reliable with it. Looking back I now remember that when I first tried truewracking I was still QW from being occie. Its not bad at all with nimble. I mostly used it to see what target prios (asthma/par) before so I would know if I would be able to stick par then wrack asthma on the inundate so there would be no lucky tree touch for target. Will post logs as my tracking gets better. Also need to test on multiple people. So sorry for my ignorance/inexperience with twracking. 

Kuy

Don't apologize for your ignorance or inexperience.  That's not something to be sorry about.

Being mean to people trying to be helpful, though...

Cynlael

Ernam saying Mishgul doesn't know combat has got to be one of the funniest things I've seen this week.

Kadin

Okay, so I'm having someone toggle PVA and par>asthma is an easy day. But asthma over par I'm struggling a bit more with.

Cooper

The good part of them prioritizing asthma is that they will rarely (read: pretty much never) get to attack you, because you will have paralysis stuck most of the fight.

Kadin

Cooper said:

The good part of them prioritizing asthma is that they will rarely (read: pretty much never) get to attack you, because you will have paralysis stuck most of the fight.

Was thinking then I could truewrack to 10 phlegmatic and lock like I have been if they are going to let me stick par. Still looking for a truewrack alternative.

Vaehl

You don't always have to lock. If they are asthma > para enjoy free humors while defeating any momentum kind of offense and slowing down limb prep strats. This is how enemy reactions affect your offensive strategy.

Ernam

If I was alchemist, I would probably almost never actually truelock.  Like darkshade for serpents, it should never actually kill anyone, it is just there to exist as a threat, to force them to prevent it, so that other setups can succeed.  That's not to say that you won't actually use it to truelock (just as darkshade does, in fact, actually kill people, when it never really should) - just saying that that's the best way to look at it IMO.

Alchemist has such easy insta-kills that you really shouldn't need to truelock anyways.  Keeping them near locks is good though, as it's going to force them to do things like asthma/para or turtle, which is going to help you stay alive while building stacks.

Terra

What Vaehl said. Asthma prio against alchemist is absolutely a death sentence. Alchemist can already unstoppably kill you once it gets to 10 tempers. If you asthma prio, you're eliminating the possibility of running away or hindering to prevent the 10 tempers from happening. Just stick para, temper to 10, inundate. Easiest win ever.

Iocun

I love fighting people who don't prioritize paralysis. Against experienced/defensive opponents, it's generally much easier to deal with their priorities than with whatever they use to break your momentum. Paralysis is the prime method of keeping up momentum.

Terra

Ernam said:

If I was alchemist, I would probably almost never actually truelock.  Like darkshade for serpents, it should never actually kill anyone, it is just there to exist as a threat, to force them to prevent it, so that other setups can succeed.  That's not to say that you won't actually use it to truelock (just as darkshade does, in fact, actually kill people, when it never really should) - just saying that that's the best way to look at it IMO.

Alchemist has such easy insta-kills that you really shouldn't need to truelock anyways.  Keeping them near locks is good though, as it's going to force them to do things like asthma/para or turtle, which is going to help you stay alive while building stacks.

This only applies to truewrack truelock. Inundate truelock is probably alchemist's most OP finisher, so that's a handy kill method against anyone, but the threat of truewrack truelock can help you get there.

Ernam

Cynlael said:

Ernam saying Mishgul doesn't know combat has got to be one of the funniest things I've seen this week.

For what it's worth, that's not what I intended my comment to mean.  I meant he had no idea what actually happened, and didn't apparently take enough time to read the log to understand what was obvious from the log, either.  (suggesting that I didn't double leg break when Xer was blatantly healing two legs and prone for over 7-8 seconds)

I'm aware that he's a very experienced, intelligent, albeit very obviously biased individual.

Must everything you say be an argument against me, instead of what I'm actually saying?  We all know that you don't like me, lets move on.

Xer

As a note, I never had a L2 torso break @Ernam. I had a L1 break possibly, but definitely never a L2 break. I hate curing torso in room unless absolutely necessary. And @Carmain knows that I will leave the room and preapply to a prepped limb as I think is necessary. I didn't bother with fake breaking in that fight IIRC. I didn't' fully look over the log yet, but I know that the assumption that I had L2 torso is definitely off, can maybe comment more when I look it over later

Ernam

Tried digging up the full log (more from before and after that clip) from my log files, but I don't have a date on it.

Would be happy to test this again in a controlled environment, but I'm no longer a monk (like everyone else).

Kadin

If they prio paralysis first without fitness/some form of passive curing a lock can easily be obtained in 4 truewracks. You were right there. I believe the asthma>par is indeed a death sentence since now most forms of instant travel get stopped by paralysis. Just wish we could prone in some form. Although alchemist is strong and probably doesn't need it.

Kuy

Kadin said:

If they prio paralysis first without fitness/some form of passive curing a lock can easily be obtained in 4 truewracks. You were right there. I believe the asthma>par is indeed a death sentence since now most forms of instant travel get stopped by paralysis. Just wish we could prone in some form. Although alchemist is strong and probably doesn't need it.

Even if they have fitness, with a mercury homunculus you can still true lock reliably before ten humours. What matters is where they prio impatience at that point or if they dynamically cure impatience to focus weariness eat kelp.

Ernam

I don't run into a lot of people that put asthma > impatience these days, but they are out there.

Mishgul

All this could have been avoided if you had timestamps.