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Comments
Deathaura is decent if artied and int specced.
Vengeance is a really really niche ability.
Mog is 3-9 hours to raise defense. Soulcage is 7 hours. Mog gives more likely chance of positive changes than negative ones. Soulcage provides no changes. Karma easier to restore than essence. Devotion deliverance can save a target's life and take them out of danger (no true death) and can be done more than once per seven hours.
Piety lasts about 2 minutes and has an artefact that extends its length as well as other rites. You can recall piety for devotion regen. Gravehands don't get regenned when banished. You can choose who and who does not get hit by piety which is very strong. Necromancy destroys piety with huge essence cost, channeled, slowish. Bards can destroy gravehands easily with Necromancer out of room while desecrate always requires channel.
Just clearing misconceptions. I don't mind losing soulspear impale because it's definitely overpowered as fuck.
The Damage Soulspear does is negateable, Should it do good amounts of damage? Why yes yes it should. it's a unique ability that requires resources and not something your going to spam to be able to kill someone 1v1. Should Soulspear writhe? Why yes. if someone runs from you and you chuck a soulspear it makes catching said person viable.
On the other hand, it stacks far to well with snipe. and while I agree that soulspear is powerful. Your nerfing an ability that isn't really the problem instead of the real problem being snipeing with 5 people at once.
Imo would be the same thing as nerfing Voidfist because it's to strong with other classes afflictions.
Truename on the other hand, (Although I don't think we're talking about truename atm but I hate it so I shall continue)
Needs to be reworked a bit, The occultist should at least have to make the kill to be able to use the truename.
Ashtan is raiding Targossas with 8 people. Targossas rushes with 13 people Targossas loses. Ashtan just got 13 truenames.
Plus 50% (or more) damage and instant aeon is just silly.
The damage most things do is negatable by well..sipping health? Eating moss?
Sniping with 5 people at once is strong, yes, but soulspear is also a real problem. It prones and impales from out of room. This also with good damage. There're combos that work other than soulspear snipe that are used (with varying frequency, especially depending upon the thrower).
Voidfist is too strong even without other class afflictions.
Truename is fun.
And hell even if it -isn't- triggered with people hitting enter and latency with in .5 seconds. Point still stands.
And everything is to strong with other classes.
Enfeeble, Backstab,Voidfist,Soulspear,Hamstring,Aeon Tarot,Raze, Flay, Arc, Chaos Rays, list goes on and on and on.
Unless you guys are just being naive about what triggers it.
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One of the symptoms of an approaching nervous breakdown is the belief that one's work is terribly important
It's eviiil.
Jinsun's clearly doing something right if he's getting those kinds of contracts on him haha.
On a more serious note, I have a feeling most people are not familiar with the necro class itself to be correct in their assumptions of the class, as well as Mhaldorian factional advantage. As I always like to say, there's a very good reason why there's only 3 fighting Apostates, instead of 1000000.
As most reasons have been covered by Cooper, Mishgul, and Vhael above, you need to be living as one of us to truly understand the cost of Soulspear. I beg for corpses every skirmish to make spears to get kills for others from it. It is harder to hoard than most assume, and supplies dry up very quickly. We only use it if it is worth it because throwing them around randomly is a complete waste. If you get hit by a spear, rest assured that it's because you're worthy. Also, We get focused on so much as priorities in groups just because the fear of it. It's also the only form of 'real' damage that we could do, unless of course you count loldecay as damage.
That being said though, it is very powerful in coordinated LoS. A guaranteed death with a few coordinated (read: not stupid) snipers in groups against unprepared opponents.
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One of the symptoms of an approaching nervous breakdown is the belief that one's work is terribly important
Here's one... I'm a relatively new bard, still learning how things work... https://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/547c9325
(yes, there's some spammy bits which I'm gradually removing as I improve gags / scripts / etc)
Let's not forget these tasty abilities:
- Demon Fury
- Frenzy
- Vivisect
- Apathy
- Catharsis
- Beckon
- Taint/arc or decay/arc whichever it is
- Corrupt
All are very very useful in groups, some taking more coordination than others, some better than others, but still great. Upgrade tranverse sure (utility upgrades are awesome), but adding other factional group abilities is just buffing something where it is not weak (hello priest complaints).As for soulspear:
Like Jarrod said, the main problem is the relative ease that they are gathered. If you have trouble getting them, then you aren't metagaming scrub corpses hard enough. The 2 options have always been: remove the impale or make it a bit more limited like truename. Either works.
Soulspear is essentially an unlimited BBT/impale/snipe/gust combo. If you chuck a spear without being in group or at a dumb time, of course it won't do much on its own. Neither will any ability in the game.
Why is vengeance so bad? What's the dmg % on a vengeance proc, at least 30% i imagine? And why can't 3-4 necros arc voyria in room with each other, not cure it, and go divebomb a massive group (at the last second) while LoS goes HAM? Both infernal and apo can vigour to go above 100% health so they don't die to vengeance before the other people in room (assuming the dmg proc hits before the voyria proc?). Requires a tad bit of coordination, but honestly not that much.
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One of the symptoms of an approaching nervous breakdown is the belief that one's work is terribly important
Either way, still seems like a fairly useful skill. The fact that's it's not an easy "obliterate whatever size group" with a few necros does not mean it's still not incredibly useful to have up in certain situations. There's no guarantee that it will be useful when it procs, but still seems good when you're for sure going to die and you're not going to fuck over your own team. Dunno what else you're looking for from it or if you're just missing how it used to work.
The problem is that the majority of our fights generally involve shrine skirmishes, and corpses and bodies are huge commodities. This makes vengeance a lot less viable from an in game perspective. I know you guys give no effs about dying, but fights between Eleusis, Targ, and Mhaldor have a lot more riding on them ICly than just the challenge and the fun, and usually involve large amounts of people on one or both sides. It's why people gets so ridiculously passionate over them, and sometimes that bleeds over to all these rage threads.
Vivisect and Catharsis are amazing. I would love to go apostate to utilize that crap. No joke. They are very selfish abilities though.
Demon fury is often underutilised but that's generally because it has a high balance cost, and the apo in melee would be better off going for sap sap cath or shadowstrike, shatter vivi which would put people out of the fight faster. It's great in ranged engagements if they don't have soulspears, or when bashing guards.
Apathy is stupid in groups, like numb.
Beckon is awesome. If we didn't always have a crappy class buildup than we would probably use it more i.e. I need to pay someone to go runie so we have a totem again. I've been told we have magi and artied monks but they are all american so I never see them.
taint/arc had it's damaged reduce because eff @Rangor . RIP 50% damage taint arcs.
Corrupt is awesome, esp in small group melee, if we don't get instagibbed.
Frenzy is great, though that got ninja nerfed a week ago in terms of essence cost, and i expect it will probably disappear eventually.
Transverse is nice if the other team aren't expecting a fight.
We always have exterminate too.
We also have gravehands which is powerful, and we have soulcage though that is limited to the class that can use it and the person.
Soulspear is generally coveted because it's a huge offensive support and it shuts people down hard and fast, and gives other people the chance to snag a kill. It's an assisting device. I am fine with reducing damage on it, i believe the damage is dependent on the corpse, and since everyone and their mom is level 99 these days, the majority of soulspears are ridiculously strong (I remember when a level 99 spear was a rare and beautiful thing).
Our factional classes are great when it comes to kill stealing, and spearheading combat, but personally I find the lack of utility sucks balls compared to other factional classes. I like Demon Corrupt though, even though I know certain people wish to see the utility of it nerfed. I would love to have more melee assisting potential, like hands or barrier or something, but people will point out that the whole point of Mhaldor's classes is that they are self serving and strong for the user. I guess that is fair enough really.
When multiclass comes out I am definitely going to go Jester/Apo though.
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One of the symptoms of an approaching nervous breakdown is the belief that one's work is terribly important
Penwize has cowardly forfeited the challenge to mortal combat issued by Atalkez.
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One of the symptoms of an approaching nervous breakdown is the belief that one's work is terribly important
Anyhow, I don't think any Mhaldorians were talking that we -needed- more factional buffs, I think the point was clearing the misconception that all these other factional abilities are super OP and super usable all the time. They're not, but it's not necessary that every ability be useful in every situation. However, if spear does get nerfed, upgrading the overall utility in some way would be reasonable (which is what Makarios already said so I'm not parroting anything useful). Just the overall misconceptions of the majority of our abilities seems quite silly. Demon Fury definitely has it's uses, but it's eq cost is like, 10 seconds, and speeds up EVERYONE in the room (including enemies) so you generally don't want to use it in melee.
Still, I think Necromany/Apostasy are fine as a whole. We lack a bit of utility compared to like, Tarot wielding Occultists and Priests with Spiritulaity/Devotion/Healing, but that's fine.
Edit : Then again, tumbling off knight/blademaster impale does considerable damage.
[ SnB PvP Guide | Link ]
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One of the symptoms of an approaching nervous breakdown is the belief that one's work is terribly important
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One of the symptoms of an approaching nervous breakdown is the belief that one's work is terribly important
he threw them all.