Combat Logs

Rangor

You guys are the cutest!

@dunn and @jhui

Dunn

Wedding this summer. Can you make it over here, @Rangor?

Cyla

Ernam said:

Backstab does 45-60% damage, depending on strength and dirk stats, before resistances, to answer you indirectly.

As to your Naga comment (which I genuinely thought was funny and I say all this in good humor) in skirmish/raid situations when multiple people are targeting the same person, I've never been able to get hypno in place before said target is dead. So since that ends up just sort of wasting time, backstab was the next best thing because of the large amount of damage it does. To me, (and forgive my young PKing ignorance) I don't go for the graceful complex kills, I've been just attempting to eliminate the opponent. And since the biggest thing serpents seem to do is snipe (again, in raids), backstab flows nicely into that.

Ernam

Cyla said:

Ernam said:

Backstab does 45-60% damage, depending on strength and dirk stats, before resistances, to answer you indirectly.

As to your Naga comment (which I genuinely thought was funny and I say all this in good humor) in skirmish/raid situations when multiple people are targeting the same person, I've never been able to get hypno in place before said target is dead. So since that ends up just sort of wasting time, backstab was the next best thing because of the large amount of damage it does. To me, (and forgive my young PKing ignorance) I don't go for the graceful complex kills, I've been just attempting to eliminate the opponent. And since the biggest thing serpents seem to do is snipe (again, in raids), backstab flows nicely into that.

I meant it jokingly as well, and I know damn well how pointless serpent is in melee combat.  I've always been annoyed by people crying about snipe/backstab, because there really is no other choice, aside from being a glorified hindrance ent.

Cyla

Ernam said:

Cyla said:

Ernam said:

Backstab does 45-60% damage, depending on strength and dirk stats, before resistances, to answer you indirectly.

As to your Naga comment (which I genuinely thought was funny and I say all this in good humor) in skirmish/raid situations when multiple people are targeting the same person, I've never been able to get hypno in place before said target is dead. So since that ends up just sort of wasting time, backstab was the next best thing because of the large amount of damage it does. To me, (and forgive my young PKing ignorance) I don't go for the graceful complex kills, I've been just attempting to eliminate the opponent. And since the biggest thing serpents seem to do is snipe (again, in raids), backstab flows nicely into that.

I meant it jokingly as well, and I know damn well how pointless serpent is in melee combat.  I've always been annoyed by people crying about snipe/backstab, because there really is no other choice, aside from being a glorified hindrance ent.

There are times when it is shitty (i.e. jumping Mithridates) but I think glorified hinderance ent is the best way to describe it I've ever heard.

Rangor

Dunn said:

Wedding this summer. Can you make it over here, @Rangor?

Sure thing.

Dunn

You can throw the rings at us down the aisle with your handaxe (at sub second speeds). Don't trumpet my bride, bro.

Jovolo

Wessux said:

Wessux said:

Incoming posts of inescapable frenzy vivi's. Well maybe, I'm not gonna post them but others who are having to deal with them might. And you don't even need good rapiers depending on their ping lol. I like teaching people new things hahaha.

This will be interesting @Wessux‌ ! If it's head/leg/arm/dsl (the popular one around the maldaathi atm) it's not inescapable, curious to see

It's leg, arm, dead. Because runed 231's and frenzy is ridiculous, but it's ok. My classlead was rejected so it must be balanced that you can't escape from this.

Edit: Well that's not true. Someone was getting out of it if they restored on two crippled limbs, which I can abuse in a thousand other ways.

If restore saves you it isn't inescapable... the disembowel may be yes, that isn't vivi though.

Kuy

Dunn said:

You can throw the rings at us down the aisle with your handaxe (at sub second speeds). Don't trumpet my bride, bro.

P sure when he starts pounding you'll wish he only trumpeted.

Iocun

Cyla said:

Ernam said:

Backstab does 45-60% damage, depending on strength and dirk stats, before resistances, to answer you indirectly.

As to your Naga comment (which I genuinely thought was funny and I say all this in good humor) in skirmish/raid situations when multiple people are targeting the same person, I've never been able to get hypno in place before said target is dead. So since that ends up just sort of wasting time, backstab was the next best thing because of the large amount of damage it does. To me, (and forgive my young PKing ignorance) I don't go for the graceful complex kills, I've been just attempting to eliminate the opponent. And since the biggest thing serpents seem to do is snipe (again, in raids), backstab flows nicely into that.

I don't see any benefit to using backstab in large-scale melee. By biting camus you'll do at least as much damage and don't run the risk of wasting your entire attack because... 1. the target died/fled before backstab went through, 2. you die/need to defend yourself before the backstab goes through, 3. the target shields and stops the backstab. And then there's the thing that you can only backstab a single time before having to re-hide.

Multiple fast hits are much better in large scale melee than few hard ones. Backstab is intended as means for jumping unsuspecting victims, and that's more or less the only thing it's good for. In large scale melee, I primarily web, snipe, bite camus, and sometimes shatter.

Strata

Ernam said:

...

I meant it jokingly as well, and I know damn well how pointless serpent is in melee combat.  I've always been annoyed by people crying about snipe/backstab, because there really is no other choice, aside from being a glorified hindrance ent.

You obviously haven't perfected the raid melee truelock in 5 seconds followed by 1-shot garrote kill method yet. Ask some A-Team guys about me bruh. They'll tell you.

Kyrra

@Jhui's the bride but @Dunn's wearing the veil  :x

Santar

There's nothing 'glorified' about Serpent melee.

Cyla

Generally if the fight is in clouds I'll wait there phased so I can backstab at leisure, then yeah I was screwing around with biting Camus. I get separated from the group and make an easy target with sniping so experimenting with different tactics has been interesting. I guess the bite speed being sped up outweighs the stun with backstab? Iunno.

Ernam

Strata said:

You obviously haven't perfected the raid melee truelock in 5 seconds followed by 1-shot garrote kill method yet. Ask some A-Team guys about me bruh. They'll tell you.

I skip straight to the 130% meteor meteor backstab garrote combo.

Ernam

Cyla said:

Generally if the fight is in clouds I'll wait there phased so I can backstab at leisure, then yeah I was screwing around with biting Camus. I get separated from the group and make an easy target with sniping so experimenting with different tactics has been interesting. I guess the bite speed being sped up outweighs the stun with backstab? Iunno.

Considering that you killed me twice when I was completely unhindered, unafflicted, and otherwise nowhere near death, I think your strategy is perfectly effective.

Wessux

-quote-
If restore saves you it isn't inescapable... the disembowel may be yes, that isn't vivi though.
-quote-

I'll just post it so everyone can see it. Frenzy ten seconds dsl untargeted with epteth and epseth. Break leg delph, break arm epteth epseth. They restore, dsl epteth and epseth again. At this point they are still off salve balance, Vivisect. Runed 227's were enough depending on ping of both players. 235's more than enough.

Anymore questions?

Here I'll make a chart! Everyone loves charts!

0.0 Dsl epteth/seth apply mending
1.0 apply mending
1.45 break leg delph
2.0 apply leg
2.9 break arm epteth/seth (restore)
4.35 dsl epteth/seth
5.8 vivisect
6.0 apply mending

Sorry, the log I saved is gone, but I've done it a couple times.

But don't worry guys! This is totally balanced! With comms being so expensive 235's will be hard to come by, except for the extremely wealthy. And don't worry about that either, the weaponry change coming in 2020 will also help out. And I mean it's not like you can have a runewarden/shaman on standby at all times like @Vicious has @Kayeil‌. Don't worry that can't happen ever.

-compose-
Seriously, frenzy was a bad idea from the start. I said this, others said it. Fine don't remove it because it is pretty cool, but lets get it in check.

P.s. Can this be my application for the combat council?

Jovolo

We all already know it's broken when you dsl x3 inside restoration balance, it's been discussed plenty of times on the forums and us already being looked at yo. Kind of the obvious exception

Is also part of the reason for my weapon runes classlead but good luck with that being approved

Cooper

Why would you post that?

Iocun

Cyla said:

Generally if the fight is in clouds I'll wait there phased so I can backstab at leisure, then yeah I was screwing around with biting Camus. I get separated from the group and make an easy target with sniping so experimenting with different tactics has been interesting. I guess the bite speed being sped up outweighs the stun with backstab? Iunno.

Backstabbing from phase can be fun, but phase just completely separates you from group communication and thus just often isn't very practical unless you're in a group with other serpents. The advantage of biting is just that it keeps you mobile and adaptable and doesn't require you to commit to a single attack for several seconds and hope it succeeds.

Backstab does increase a bit in usefulness if you are with allies that are a higher kill priority to your opponents, guaranteeing you a few unhindered moments.

Aerek

Cooper said:

Why would you post that?

Because stuff gets fixed when it starts getting abused.

Vicious

Tried it over and over against @Kayeil's SUPERB anti-vivi (Infernal bfs, ya know) and still was not happening. She just LOL'd right through it. *SLUMP*

@Cooper he posted it to show that his classlead for frenzy nerf was viable (certainly against that classlead THANK YOU FOR REJECTING IT ADMINS) 

Also note : Kayeil isn't a standby. I fight any who even hits my alertness with her Ask the plethora of Annwyn coms. SWOON She's my foundation, I couldn't kill confidently without her. She's also the baddest ass hunter I've ever worked with and is by far faster than 99% of all Achaeans. She brings such a powerful dynamic to our duo that it's invaluable and I can't do without it anymore. So minirave to this awesome woman for being such a fucking amazing cornerstone to my very existence.

Side Note: HAHA @Hawkin Did you seriously hire on me for me jumping 6 Ashtani by myself in Annwyn? Are you serious?

Cooper

I know, but I've had this on the back burner forever and haven't gotten to abuse it yet.

Wessux

Cooper said:

Why would you post that?

Because if everyone knows and starts doing it it becomes a problem which will be fixed. If not, well that sucks.

Speed cap, all I'm asking. 1.6 would still be great and you couldn't do stuff like that. And it's not like this is rare. I know two other infernals other than myself with these rapiers. Three if Tirac has a pair.

I just want the world to play by the same rules so everyone can have fun. Nothing should be inescapable.

Jovolo said:

We all already know it's broken when you dsl x3 inside restoration balance, it's been discussed plenty of times on the forums and us already being looked at yo. Kind of the obvious exception

Is also part of the reason for my weapon runes classlead but good luck with that being approved

If it's obvious why wasn't it fixed ages ago. Why did I have to go infernal, point it out to every infernal to make this problem -hopefully- go away?

Jovolo

So limb/limb with weapons faster than 1.5 seconds is the super secret strategy you told me you wanted to abuse @Cooper? boring

Iocun

Wessux said:

0.0 Dsl epteth/seth apply mending

1.0 apply mending

1.45 break leg delph

2.0 apply leg

2.9 break arm epteth/seth (restore)

4.35 dsl epteth/seth

5.8 vivisect

6.0 apply mending

That's not the only way to cure though.

Jovolo

Wessux said:

Cooper said:

Why would you post that?

Because if everyone knows and starts doing it it becomes a problem which will be fixed. If not, well that sucks.

Speed cap, all I'm asking. 1.6 would still be great and you couldn't do stuff like that. And it's not like this is rare. I know two other infernals other than myself with these rapiers. Three if Tirac has a pair.

I just want the world to play by the same rules so everyone can have fun. Nothing should be inescapable.

Jovolo said:

We all already know it's broken when you dsl x3 inside restoration balance, it's been discussed plenty of times on the forums and us already being looked at yo. Kind of the obvious exception

Is also part of the reason for my weapon runes classlead but good luck with that being approved

If it's obvious why wasn't it fixed ages ago. Why did I have to go infernal, point it out to every infernal to make this problem -hopefully- go away?

Idk, ask the admin. It's been pointed out a ton of times before, I imagine with Makarios speed coding they'll finally get around to a 1.6 cap on frenzy

ETA: this classleads round

Wessux

Jovolo said:

Wessux said:

Cooper said:

Why would you post that?

Because if everyone knows and starts doing it it becomes a problem which will be fixed. If not, well that sucks.

Speed cap, all I'm asking. 1.6 would still be great and you couldn't do stuff like that. And it's not like this is rare. I know two other infernals other than myself with these rapiers. Three if Tirac has a pair.

I just want the world to play by the same rules so everyone can have fun. Nothing should be inescapable.

Jovolo said:

We all already know it's broken when you dsl x3 inside restoration balance, it's been discussed plenty of times on the forums and us already being looked at yo. Kind of the obvious exception

Is also part of the reason for my weapon runes classlead but good luck with that being approved

If it's obvious why wasn't it fixed ages ago. Why did I have to go infernal, point it out to every infernal to make this problem -hopefully- go away?

Idk, ask the admin. It's been pointed out a ton of times before, I imagine with Makarios speed coding they'll finally get around to a 1.6 cap on frenzy

ETA: this classleads round

Well they rejected my classlead which was the speed cap and sited the annoying reasons I stated above. We'll see what happens now that erbody knows.

Cyla

Iocun said:

Cyla said:

Generally if the fight is in clouds I'll wait there phased so I can backstab at leisure, then yeah I was screwing around with biting Camus. I get separated from the group and make an easy target with sniping so experimenting with different tactics has been interesting. I guess the bite speed being sped up outweighs the stun with backstab? Iunno.

Backstabbing from phase can be fun, but phase just completely separates you from group communication and thus just often isn't very practical unless you're in a group with other serpents. The advantage of biting is just that it keeps you mobile and adaptable and doesn't require you to commit to a single attack for several seconds and hope it succeeds.

Backstab does increase a bit in usefulness if you are with allies that are a higher kill priority to your opponents, guaranteeing you a few unhindered moments.

I see your point, very true. Still a little serp learning the dynamics of combat and group combat especially . Opportunistic kills will always be serpent specialty in any form, it seems. I try not to lean too heavily on damage tactics since obviously that's not the purpose of the class. But I'll start biting more.

Wessux

Vicious said:

Tried it over and over against @Kayeil's SUPERB anti-vivi (Infernal bfs, ya know) and still was not happening. She just LOL'd right through it. *SLUMP*

@Cooper he posted it to show that his classlead for frenzy nerf was viable (certainly against that classlead THANK YOU FOR REJECTING IT ADMINS) 

Also note : Kayeil isn't a standby. I fight any who even hits my alertness with her Ask the plethora of Annwyn coms. SWOON She's my foundation, I couldn't kill confidently without her. She's also the baddest ass hunter I've ever worked with and is by far faster than 99% of all Achaeans. She brings such a powerful dynamic to our duo that it's invaluable and I can't do without it anymore. So minirave to this awesome woman for being such a fucking amazing cornerstone to my very existence.

Side Note: HAHA @Hawkin Did you seriously hire on me for me jumping 6 Ashtani by myself in Annwyn? Are you serious?

Not meant to be an insult. Just saying you have runes all day everyday. Also she is restoring on two shriveled limbs which if you aren't abusing that you're a bad infernal.