Combat Logs

Strata

Without artied monk to fall back on, where would most of those "path of least resistance" fighters go? To other games of course! Monk needs to stay the way it is or like 70% of achaea would flip out and say "shit's too hard." and leave.

Ernam

That last post came off as pretty passive aggressive, and I didn't mean for it to be (I just don't get why you're arbitrarily stating that I'm "complaining", constantly).  

I went monk because since I've been playing this game, it's the only class I've never played, because I've always hated how simple, easy, and overpowered it is, and I've always enjoyed the "art" of combat.  The reason I gave in and went monk was because I wanted to know, first hand, how it works in detail, and also because my previous character's class is massively crippled by the illusion nerf.

The more I learn about monk, the more I learn how much better it is than I realized before.  Add a Ring of Flying, a permanent shield tattoo, and horkval Leap, and it's pretty much a powerhouse that can't be stopped, without teaming or cheesey gimmicks (dstab sleep lock, triple lust, etc).  The best part of it is that the learning curve of monk is literally about a week.  Two, if you're new to how limb damage and parrying works.

Here's how 95% of my fights go, including against very experienced, artied opponents.

Prep Legs (two RHK combos each) - 12 seconds

Prep Head/Torso (two RHK combos each) - 12 more seconds

Kai banish, if applicable - 3ish seconds

(optional) Prep both arms (two RHK combos each) then double arm break - 15 optional seconds

Break head/torso - 3 seconds

SWK/double leg break

Win.  (pick a method, they all work)

Add on that monk has the ability to negate virtually every kill strategy in the game (ability to tank 20,000 damage bursts, immunity to venom locks via fitness/rebounding), and simply touching shield as many times as I care to, with absolutely no loss to prep momentum... 

It's really pretty ridiculous... I can only imagine what it's like for the Krosses out there with complete level 3 stat sets and level 3 knuckles/armbands/xoran on top of having additional extra Strength from icon bonus.  It's frankly just silly.

And don't even get me started on bashing.  Retarded.

Strata

Ernam said:

. . . The best part of it is that the learning curve of monk is literally about a week. . . .

Kross

I'm not being aggressive. 

Ernam said:

Ernam said:

A log of Jonesey (in dragonform) tanking two level two torso break BBTs.  (with 18str)

https://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/a31fef19

I'd love to see Tekura damage tweaked downward, but at the same time, it's already nearly impossible to beat artied and/or dragon top-end players, as a monk.  The only thought that comes to my mind would be to lower Tekura damage, but lower dragon armor signifantly more.

STUPID QUOTES - Anyways

I'm saying here that it's -not- difficult to beat Dragons or top-end players as a monk. It just takes more than mashing aliases and macros, prepping and more. Iakimen gets 4 bbt's on people with a setup he uses. That doesn't care about Runes/TF's, Arties, Dragon health or anything else. It takes -skill- and know-how.

You can't expect that a double leg setup with a broken torso will kill -every- person you come up against. The first time you try that against a Runie with good blunt protection armour and anyone that can tumble properly will just lol at you while you rage about bbt's not working.

You need to do -more- for those  individuals is what i'm trying to say. But instead, you complain that because your level 2 torso bbt's didn't kill Jonesey that Dragonarmour is now OP and needs to be reduced significantly? Poppycock.

In a 1v1, i've found it much harder to get a double-sensitivity bite in Dragonform than being in lesser and prepping a kill-combo that I -know- will work against a Dragon with high health, sip rings, proper curing, tumbling, and dragonarmour. But, like I said before, it will take more than just a double leg/broken bbt setup. He was probably at 12% or less health after the second one. If you had used other skills (I.e., enfeeble into lvl 2 torso bbt) then I bet he would have died.

This is where Monk becomes less OP than people make it out to be. Sure, we have problems with axk scaling, fast prep times and other things. But, if we prep 4 limbs and torso, break all 5, bbt two or three times and they survive by tumbling, healing, or good armour, then we have to start over. And that puts you at risk. I don't disagree that it's difficult. It rightly is. He's a dragon. You can't expect some lvl 70+ monk to walk in and bbt a dragon once or twice on a lvl 1 or 2 torso and kill them like you would a lvl 80 Runewarden with decent armour.

@Jonesey - Why you let your torso get that bad, man? Cure that trash.

Jacen

Wessux

Ernam said:

That last post came off as pretty passive aggressive, and I didn't for it (I just don't get why you're arbitrarily stating that I'm "complaining", constantly).  

I went monk because since I've been playing this game, it's the only class I've never played, because I've always hated how simple, easy, and overpowered it is, and I've always enjoyed the "art" of combat.  The reason I gave in and went monk was because I wanted to know, first hand, how it works in detail, and also because my previous character's class is massively crippled by the illusion nerf.

The more I learn about monk, the more I learn how much better it is than I realized before.  Add a Ring of Flying, a permanent shield tattoo, and horkval Leap, and it's pretty much a powerhouse that can't be stopped, without teaming or cheesey gimmicks (dstab sleep lock, triple lust, etc).  The best part of it is that the learning curve of monk is literally about a week.  Two, if you're new to how limb damage and parrying works.

Here's how 95% of my fights go, including against very experienced, artied opponents.

Prep Legs (two RHK combos each) - 12 seconds

Prep Head/Torso (two RHK combos each) - 12 more seconds

Kai banish, if applicable - 3ish seconds

(optional) Prep both arms (two RHK combos each) then double arm break - 15 optional seconds

Break head/torso - 3 seconds

SWK/double leg break

Win.  (pick a method, they all work)

Add on that monk has the ability to negate virtually every kill strategy in the game (ability to tank 20,000 damage bursts, immunity to venom locks via fitness/rebounding), and simply touching shield as many times as I care to, with absolutely no loss to prep momentum... 

It's really pretty ridiculous... I can only imagine what it's like for the Krosses out there with complete level 3 stat sets and level 3 knuckles/armbands/xoran on top of having additional extra Strength from icon bonus.  It's frankly just silly.

And don't even get me started on bashing.  Retarded.

I shield/run on kai banish, I run/fly on double arm breaks, I shield/fly/run on head breaks, I tumble on leg breaks. I would probably be ok through that.

The rough part of monk is the speed, a lot of their setups leave very small windows of error when trying to escape.

Fitness does not make you immune to venom locks.

Monk has a lot of tools to help with kill strategies but also won't make them immune to all.

I said all that to say monk is manageable but it's still pretty ridiculous though. Some tweaks would not go amiss but I have no idea what they should really be.

Also serpent isn't dead because the illusion "nerf". They barely worked before and only like 5% of the playerbase who are real combatants are even using it. Calm your tits guys, seriously.

Also I like how people are calling out our playerbase for being some of lowest common denominator when really they are those players. I doubt 70% of the playerbase would quit if monks got some reworks.

Jacen

Ernam said:

Here's how 95% of my fights go, including against very experienced, artied opponents.

Prep Legs (two RHK combos each) - 12 seconds

Prep Head/Torso (two RHK combos each) - 12 more seconds

Kai banish, if applicable - 3ish seconds

(optional) Prep both arms (two RHK combos each) then double arm break - 15 optional seconds

Break head/torso - 3 seconds

SWK/double leg break

Win.  (pick a method, they all work)

Missed this post, but if someone's staying in the room with you through a double arm break AND a head/torso break... they aren't as experienced as you seem to think they are.

Cooper

swk/break arm/break leg

sdk/break arm/break leg

bbt

bbt

don't need the arms if you aren't fighting a monk

will kill 90% of people

good luck using swk on someone with an unkillable mount

good luck getting enough kai to use break arm/cripple to prone someone against certain classes

good luck fighting occultists

Dunn

Only Lothiac and Exelethril, eh?

Strata

I don't see anything incorrect with what Ernam is saying. Aside from being immune to venom locks - which I don't think he meant to say it that way. I think what he meant was, all he has to do is whore shield and eventually he wins. The prepping is easy, then just whore shield and wait for an opening and finish it. Seriously. Cooper might think monk still needs buffs but it's well established that monk is Achaea's de-facto "I really have no clue what I'm doing, nor does it matter - I'm still winning." class. Put firewalls up all over the place ala-Iakimen and most other classes can't do anything but die if they don't leave the area and consider it a moot point to continue the fight. I seriously don't know how anyone thinks fighting as that class is enjoyable... unless ofcourse the only thing they find enjoyable in life is the perpetuation of the silver spoon being rammed up their ass since birth.

Cooper

I haven't said anything about monks getting buffs. People just think that monk is the easiest thing you can possibly do, but that isn't true. If you're fighting someone without a mount who isn't good at offensive pressure, that will be an easy fight. But if you fight someone with an unkillable mount who knows how to keep a wall up properly it's a pretty impossible fight.

The people who complain about fighting monks are either complaining about artied damage, don't have the proper defenses against monks (mounts, icewalls), or are just a terrible class to fight against monks with.

Like I've pointed out before, most of the nerf/balances to monks in the last 5 years have been my ideas, and I classleaded the removal or repurposing of axekick at that time too.

Sobriquet

Personally, I love fighting monks. I wish there was more of them

Strata

See her? That's Christie Montiero for anyone not familiar with Tekken. Select her, mash keys completely at random, win. She will start moving around in a completely randomized masterful display of gymnastics moves that is impossible to dodge, block, or stop. The person you're fighting is level-9000 professional world-renown Tekken champion? Doesn't f-cking matter. Mash keys = you're going to win.

Welcome to the Monk class in Achaea.

Iocun

Wait, so monks win by distracting their opponents with skimpy clothing?

Kuy

Iocun said:

Wait, so monks win by distracting their opponents with skimpy clothing?

brb sparring Kross for three hours

Strata

Iocun said:

Wait, so monks win by distracting their opponents with skimpy clothing?

YES!

Kross

I'm not sure how anything I said devolved from "beating artied dragons" isn't as hard as someone thought to "any idiot can be a monk and win". Like Cooper said, 90% or your fights are going to be simple, easy wins. Fight a really good Blademaster that keeps you voidfisted and paralysed and tell me about your prep time. Fight a good, mounted serpent that knows how to combat preparation and let me know how easily you prep someone. Spend countless spars fighting a magi that produces almost no kai or a runie that you miss every sweep kick on your kill combo.

I agree, monks don't need buffs at all, and a damage change wouldn't be cutting as off at the knees either, but the original post that started this was Ernam saying his normal, run of the mill setup didn't work on a dragon, ergo dragon needs to be nerfed. That's stupid.

Honestly, anyone that wants to get with me one way or another, let me know and I'll give you some ideas about what to do in tough situations. I've spent my time learning from some of the best combatants and they learned from others too.

Kross

Logs now plz!

Caladbolg

Ernam said:

. . . The best part of it is that the learning curve of monk is literally about a week. . . .

Imo learning curve depends on your knowledge of the game to start with, Paladin wasn't a hard learning curve to me because of my expierence with bm to start with, also the fact I'd spent awhile trying to figure out how to lock people as bm really sped up using venoms on the rapiers, Hardest part has been and is still the coding part.

Caladbolg

Daeir said:

I laughed at "really good Blademaster that keeps you voidfisted and paralysed."

The sheer audacity.

Shh stop giving away my secrets.

Jarrod

I'm 10000% disappointed a button mashing character was brought up from Tekken and it wasn't Eddy Gordo. You're doing it wrong.

Strata

Calm down @Jarrod. Enjoy this soothing (and the best) track from Tekken 4 as you die from Christie's transfixing moves.

Caladbolg

https://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/9792b13a

https://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/7d0434a3

https://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/b5124c52

My new favorite skill

https://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/d9112275

Trey

That last one would have been rage inducing if it'd been me on the other end. However, given that it's not, I'm laughing hysterically at the tick healing paralysis right before 

 

Santar

That's actually not a very surprising circumstance. It's just a 100% mis-play by Kafziel. The chances of him healing paralysis there were pretty good. Kafziel didn't start afflicting until after the second part of cleave, and then only used one affliction. It was a complete misplay to paralyse at that point.

Kafziel

Santar said:

That's actually not a very surprising circumstance. It's just a 100% mis-play by Kafziel. The chances of him healing paralysis there were pretty good. Kafziel didn't start afflicting until after the second part of cleave, and then only used one affliction. It was a complete misplay to paralyse at that point.

Yep I noobed that up hard. Wasn't expecting him to be there, or to cleave me, and I am new to shaman so all my instincts are still to do bard stuff. Also forgot paladins can do rite of healing too. Many fails combined.

Caladbolg

Kafziel said:

Santar said:

That's actually not a very surprising circumstance. It's just a 100% mis-play by Kafziel. The chances of him healing paralysis there were pretty good. Kafziel didn't start afflicting until after the second part of cleave, and then only used one affliction. It was a complete misplay to paralyse at that point.

Yep I noobed that up hard. Wasn't expecting him to be there, or to cleave me, and I am new to shaman so all my instincts are still to do bard stuff. Also forgot paladins can do rite of healing too. Many fails combined.

It's okay! I think i've cleaved about 20 people in the past 24 hours!

Plus you kicked my ass at 1v1

Cahin

90% of combat, imho, has nothing to do with the learning curve of your class, but with the learning of how to play defensive against every other class.

Atalkez

Clearly guards need to respect Cloak.

Also, @Bonko rude

https://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/96c45a71.

Iocun

Cahin said:

90% of combat, imho, has nothing to do with the learning curve of your class, but with the learning of how to play defensive against every other class.

90% of my learning curve was building my curing system.

The remaining 10% is shopping for herbs.