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  • JhuiJhui
    full str, old icon monk (Denex) did about 85% on me as monk with only leather armour.

    Not sure how'd it'd do 81% with new icon on Mir stance.  Post the context next time?

    Then again, I guess he didn't complain about it, he just posted the log, so coulda just been a regular post.
    image
  • HayteHayte
    I agree, AXK is bad. Let's go back to web/AXK = dead.
  • ValdusValdus Australia
    Daeir said:
    Dunn said:
    Daeir said:
    81%+ from any attack that requires only prone to reasonably achieve is too much, really. Artefacts or otherwise.

    I mean, what's even the point of doing anything else?
    Your monks DON'T do anything else...

    swk @tar;axk @tar;hfp @tar right;hfp @tar left


    on a loop.
    I know.

    I was one for a while. It was also one of the reasons I didn't stay a monk. I could loop a combined swk/bbt/hfpx2 alias and hit axk as soon as someone applied salve to legs and was prone every time and either get a kill or watch someone die next prompt.

    There's nothing fun about it. It is essentially bashing people. It is literally the most boring thing I have ever played.
    Probably the easiest too, which could be why people rapidly defend it.

    Viva la Bluef.
  • NemutaurNemutaur Germany
    Antonius said:
    There's really no good reason for axekick to have ever existed considering the existence of BBT.
    Maybe back in the day when concussions and the amnesia were really hard to cure with the lack of systems, I don't know. Now though I'd love to see it getting reworked to a vivisect/heartseed style insta/finisher.
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  • DunnDunn
    Or cut the damage in half (maybe more) and scale it off of level 2 damaged limbs. I think we've spitballed that idea before.


  • DornDorn
    I classleaded that idea after bouncing it back and forth with Akia, I believe, but I wouldn't be surprised if others had the same idea before me. Honestly, reworking it from straight damage to a reliable finisher of some kind (whether Freezepound-esque 98% max health damage under proper conditions or Vivisect/Heartseed-esque 'cure properly or this instas you') would do a lot for Monks I think - it'd give unartied Monks a more consistent way to aim for a kill, and it wouldn't really hurt artied Monks going for damage too much, since they'd still have BBT available. 

    Only trick is setting it up so that it has an alternate cure path that forces choices. Not really sure what to go for there. Could require a damaged head as part of the axekick insta, but then Monks can force a lose/lose scenario - sweep/break leg/break leg, break head/break torso, if you cure head they can BBT, if you cure torso they can axekick, seems a little bit too easy to switch path mid-execution? Then again I don't know how hard it is for an Infernal to switch from a Vivisect to a Disembowel path in the middle of the break chain either, so maybe that's not a problem.
  • JovoloJovolo
    edited February 2014
    Petition to make Amnesia relevant 2014
  • AntoniusAntonius
    Dorn said:
    I classleaded that idea after bouncing it back and forth with Akia, I believe, but I wouldn't be surprised if others had the same idea before me. Honestly, reworking it from straight damage to a reliable finisher of some kind (whether Freezepound-esque 98% max health damage under proper conditions or Vivisect/Heartseed-esque 'cure properly or this instas you') would do a lot for Monks I think - it'd give unartied Monks a more consistent way to aim for a kill, and it wouldn't really hurt artied Monks going for damage too much, since they'd still have BBT available. 

    Only trick is setting it up so that it has an alternate cure path that forces choices. Not really sure what to go for there. Could require a damaged head as part of the axekick insta, but then Monks can force a lose/lose scenario - sweep/break leg/break leg, break head/break torso, if you cure head they can BBT, if you cure torso they can axekick, seems a little bit too easy to switch path mid-execution? Then again I don't know how hard it is for an Infernal to switch from a Vivisect to a Disembowel path in the middle of the break chain either, so maybe that's not a problem.
    Infernal would have to break torso before their vivisect setup for a disembowel to be worth it, but it's possible to do. Would also require both legs prepped, which can be slightly more work than a leg/arm/arm setup.

    Results of disembowel testing | Knight limb counter | GMCP AB files

  • JovoloJovolo
    edited February 2014
    It would require arm/leg/leg/torso... but doable. A guaranteed single disembowel at the most. (Very powerful for any Infernal with 19 base strength). Creating player curing choices like this would be good for Monk if prepping wasn't so easy and quick for them. All you do by reworking axk in this style is give them more diversity - sorry, but that doesn't balance them in their current incarnation. Monks really do need a lot of work to be made more interesting AND balance it.

    If you significantly lower axk damage and make it always do 100% limb damage to head, and then make amnesia curable only by curing concussion and change the effects of amnesia to be something else... then remove amnesia from curses and voicecraft and so on. Make it only possible with concussion. It could renovate slow locks which need some love and remove the prone death situation of axk and afford the opportunity for very interesting unartied Monk ideas.

    I have no idea what to make amnesia actually do though. And I need to go aaahhhh. Later
  • XithXith
    Jovolo said:

    Petition to make Amnesia relevant 2014

    But at the same time delete amnesia pets.
    I like my steak like I like my Magic cards: mythic rare.
  • MithridatesMithridates
    No. Amnesia is great.

  • KuyKuy
    Mithridates said:

    No. Amnesia is great.

    Betty White's track suits were great, too.

    And then she bedazzled them.

    (Point: you could still use the new amnesia to [probably] a greater effect as a Magi)
    [2:41:24 AM] Kenway: I bet you smell like evergreen trees and you could wrestle boreal mammals but they'd rather just cuddle you
  • MithridatesMithridates
    Retardation plus amnesia pet

  • PenwizePenwize
    Amnesia does pretty much nothing right now except against high-ping targets where you might get lucky and have amnesia catch a cure attempt instead of the triggered TOUCH AMNESIA.  Even in retardation and aeon, it does nothing for the same reason.
  • JovoloJovolo
    @mithridates amnesia is cured on entry and not completion of commands, so you can double up and have amnesia basically not affect you at all. It could definitely need some refunctioning and slowlocks/concussion breaks seems like an interesting and viable repurpose.
  • XithXith
    It's incredibly powerful in retardation. You can't cure it unless you consume the 1.1 second sluggish on something and then redo whatever action again. Oscillate vibe already helps Magi with that. But if a Magi has an artie pet or even if an occie/jester has one with amnesia it gets out of hand from what I've seen.
    I like my steak like I like my Magic cards: mythic rare.
  • SenaSena
    edited February 2014
    Xith said:
    You can't cure it unless you consume the 1.1 second sluggish on something and then redo whatever action again.
    This isn't true. If it was, concussion in retardation (or aeon) would prevent you from ever getting a single command through.

    Edit: It being powerful is true though, primarily because of people thinking it works like that and thus hindering themselves.
  • PenwizePenwize
    Xith said:
    It's incredibly powerful in retardation. You can't cure it unless you consume the 1.1 second sluggish on something and then redo whatever action again. Oscillate vibe already helps Magi with that. But if a Magi has an artie pet or even if an occie/jester has one with amnesia it gets out of hand from what I've seen.
    This is not true.  You can test it out yourself if you like.  Amnesia happens, and is removed, before sluggish hits.  It will consume an action after sluggish is finished if you don't remove the amnesia before that, but that's very easy to do with simple triggers (except for hidden amnesia like oscillate or monk mind amnesia).

    The timeline would look like this:

    -Enter an action (say, smoke elm).
    -Sluggish message (smoking elm going through)
    -Amnesia pet hits you.  Afflicted with amnesia now.
    -Trigger sends TOUCH AMNESIA.
    -TOUCH AMNESIA is cancelled by amnesia, and removes the amnesia.
    -Smoke elm goes through after sluggish time is up.
  • TeshaTesha
    Masked amnesia is really difficult to deal with. Pet amnesia's strength depends on the latency of your target; if they can enter touch amnesia before their planned command goes through, it's next to useless. If they consistently can't, it's overpowered.

     i'm a rebel

  • SantarSantar
    Amnesia is in a good place right now. It doesn't do much in most situations, but if it -did-, do you realize how much it'd break combat?

    image

  • CooperCooper
    I would just hold down enter on mind amnesia during every single gank if it was changed to delay commands by .5 or 1 second. It's like .8s eq with diadem and drs

  • PenwizePenwize
    I wouldn't really change amnesia, although how it work right now is kind of useless in all but a few niche instances.  I'd rather see some other approach to fixing axekick.  Something I had considered, but not really thought through the implications of, is making axekick cause unconsciousness (like hunger does, maybe not for as long) if it hits someone who already has a concussion.  It would force prone people to decide between curing legs or curing head, and could come with a significant damage reduction on axekick.
  • XithXith
    Amnesia doesn't block the sluggish movement though, only the command you were trying to execute?

    - Amnesia
    - smoke elm (move sluggishly)
    - null (amnesia cured)

    or does the first sluggish consume amnesia? In that case couldn't you just double-do every action in retardation and never be affected?
    I like my steak like I like my Magic cards: mythic rare.
  • JovoloJovolo
    edited February 2014
    Jovolo said:

    @xith amnesia is cured on entry and not completion of commands, so you can double up and have amnesia basically not affect you at all.

  • KafzielKafziel
    Xith said:
    In that case couldn't you just double-do every action in retardation and never be affected?
    Yes
  • CynlaelCynlael
    Mephaos strikes again.

  • SynbiosSynbios
    Mithridates said:
    No. Amnesia is great.

    You damn right Amnesia is great.

    image

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