Combat Logs

Cynlael

Mako said:

The best part about being an Alchemist by far. http://www.logsty.com/logs/5BIJP

New contender for worst style of colouring. Watch out @Xer.

Tesha

http://pastebin.com/HWA3DPDS

23 second enlighten. Granted, I did not have a tree tattoo (I did get a hallelujah proc though, functionally the same), and I did not tremolo, but 23 seconds seems really extreme. How are momentum-based classes (like Bard) supposed to fight Occultists if they can kill you before you build up enough momentum to even consider locking? I mean, I can just tremolo over and over and over, but that is just stupid. 

@Makarios is 23 seconds intentional? 

edit: I may just be missing something. Is my priority messed up, or? 

Iocun

?: 1802h, 1594m, 24377e, 10679w ecdbk 41- 19:33:24.600 [haem cadmus reck dark maso hthl st]focus

You focus your mind intently on curing your mental maladies.

Your form is wracked by the curse of Cadmus.

You gasp as your fine-tuned reflexes disappear into a haze of confusion.

You no longer enjoy pain. (0.465s) (0.213s) (2.369s)

5151h, 4557m, 24377e, 10604w ecdbk 41- 19:33:24.813 [haem cadmus cl dark hthl](+3349h, 65.0%, +2963m,

 65.0%)

Seems Svo mistakingly cleared all your focus affs there.

Tesha

So I would have been fine if I focused manually? (also for @Vadimuses, I am on 13.8.4)

Wait - no, it was no mistake. Hallelujah cleared recklessness, focus cleared masochism, clumsiness hit me. That is right, right?

Eld

Tesha said:

So I would have been fine if I focused manually? (also for @Vadimuses, I am on 13.8.4)

Wait - no, it was no mistake. Hallelujah cleared recklessness, focus cleared masochism, clumsiness hit me. That is right, right?

On that single focus, svo registered stupidity, recklessness, and masochism going away. Hallelujah came after that (and did cure recklessness).

Tesha

For some reason, that is how svo sometimes is when hallelujah procs during spam. It does seem that it thought stupidity was gone, though. It re-detected stupidity moments later anyways, and he redelivered masochism/stupidity too. So I do not think svo clearing that for a few seconds is the issue.

Dunn

So you expect to live when you're spamming full offense at me post Hecate/madness?

Serpents can lock faster than that, especially when you're not fighting defensively.

Iocun

@Tesha: No, it's not, but I thought I'd point it out anyways, because that one should be a quick and easy fix. I can't really judge the rest yet, because I haven't even looked into the occultist changes yet, how it all works, how it is stopped, and so on. And without some occultist attacking me out of the blue, I can't even learn about/incorporate their new attacks into my system!

On the first glance, it primarily seems as if occultists need to be hindered now.

Fitz

I think Dunn already said it....

Dunn said:

If you don't hinder Occultist, you're gonna have a bad time.

Yep...

Dunn

The first three minutes of that fight where she actually played defensive and didn't get enlightened were also left out. 23 seconds, you say?

Tesha

23 seconds from walking into the room, yeah... did you have some other momentum from before, or? How is the part where I tremoloed and ran relevant to saying you enlightened me in 23 seconds? Did you stick something on me from there? No, the fight did not last 23 seconds, but you enlightened me 23 seconds after walking in the room after a 8-10 second break. 23 seconds from no afflictions at all to enlighten. 23 seconds from the moment you started attacking again after having no momentum at all to having won the fight.

How is anything momentum based supposed to fight Occultists if we have to stay on the defensive permanently?

Serpents can potentially lock after having hypnotized, stacking afflictions and if you take your rebounding down for them when they are ready to snap. How is this the same? You just walked into the room.

Dunn

Guess you'll have to stick to tremolo/run to Targossas. Worked before.

Jarrod

I think the more relevant question here is how is 23 seconds fast when you employ zero defensive measures?

I think if I actually made the appropriate setup, I could lock Dunn in 15 seconds if he didn't do any hindering/shielding/etc.

Tesha

How exactly is that balanced? There is no window where I have to be defensive, like against any other class; apparently I will have to be defensive for the entire fight. Is that what you mean?

Dunn

No. I have trouble getting even Cadmus on people like Jhui who fight smart. You legit held down on your offense even when I madnessed you. Tents were down by that time. You didn't have a tree tattoo. Smart tree kills me.

Tesha

What does Jhui do to prevent things from sticking, then? Does he hinder you every time you attack, or fly every time you attack twice, or what? Was he reflecting against you? Reflection is a lot stronger than shield; reflection is 3-4 times faster, and does not get taken out by whichever one of your ents takes shield down. Magi is not really a momentum-based class, too.

What does "fight smart" mean, exactly? Perma-hinder? Hit-run?

Jarrod

Going defensive before 0h is probably a good start.

Jhui

if you don't play defensively, bard, serpent, sentinel, and apostate could easily lock you in less that 23 seconds..

If anything lock classes are built specifically to destroy occultist because occultist does not hinder during it's execution.

Use paralysis better Tesha, bards can basically perma it...

edit: and by defensively, i mean offensive hinder as well

Tesha

Hallelujah proc can be counted as a tree tattoo proc for that log, for all intents and purposes - random cure in a small window of time.

So what you are saying is you have to go defensive at the very least once every 23 seconds? Okay... with that in mind, how exactly are momentum-based classes meant to fight Occultists, since going defensive abandons momentum in favor of survival? 

Help me understand how this is balanced.

Dunn

Help me understand how BM is balanced first.

Priest too, defensively, while we're on it.

Tesha

There are windows where those classes can lock in such small amounts of time, Jhui. For bard, that window is if you have asthma or impatience at the very least, rebounding is not coming up soon, and you are off herb balance. You can still run at any point, and even if you do not, a tree tattoo can still save you. Serpent needs hypnosis, which involves prep. There are windows against them where danger is obvious. Apostate is similar, you know when you have to hinder them. 

What is the equivalent danger-sign for Occultist?

Jhui

treat cadmus like pre-impale slash

treat hecate like you're at 500 health and a holo is on the ground

edit: also, treat 3 physical affs like you are kelp stacked against a locking class

Dunn

So because you don't know when danger time is going on... it's not balanced?

Logic.

Tesha

No, I was asking if it was balanced because I died 23 seconds after you walked into the room. The comparisons for being locked in that time-frame are faulty at best - most of those classes have to deal with rebounding, and only Apostate has the advantage of hands of the grave. All of those classes require prep, either through momentum or room setup... you walked in and killed me in 23 seconds with no prep whatsoever, other than me being in the room.

Hostile sarcasm is unnecessary and un-called for, all I did was provide a log and ask questions. 

I will try a few different strategies. Maybe it is not as bad as it seems. Wait, you cannot even orb anymore? I will just bug Jhui.

Jarrod

A time when quotes come to Combat Logs. Did lol heartily.

- 2013/09/05 01:47:05 - Tesha says, "I would like to purchase 800 orb sigils, please. Contact me with prices per."

Tesha

I was going to orb pyradius! But golgotha protects against orbs, and cannot be stripped. 

Fitz

Wait...don't tell me...nerf Golgotha?

Vadimuses

From a quick scan of the log, you just did your offensive stuff while ignoring the buildup of afflictions - maybe it's a new to Occultists thing, but times when ignoring a buildup of afflictions is okay are a few.

Kaie

@tesha don't argue that something is OP to a member of that class. Just sayin.. you're barking up the wrong tree. No one wants their class 'tweaked' or nerfed. If I had oblit.. i'd surely tell you it's perfectly fine how it is.

Nemutaur

And this is how you almost cure Madness, my favorite kill of the evening:

http://pastebin.com/1TTV1Tyf