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PvE Analysis

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  • MindshellMindshell Posts: 178Member ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Yeah, I'll need to analyse dragon in all classes and figure out what's going on here. More work for me unfortunately. :/
  • MicaelisMicaelis Posts: 266Member ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Given previous discussion, I'm guessing SnB knight is pretty bad :D so maybe test from there?
  • AntoniusAntonius Posts: 4,244Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I don't know if Knight classes are considered identical (due to fullplate), or if Runewarden has a worse modifier than the others due to constant access to Algiz, but I do know Sword and Shield has a worse modifier than the other three specialisations.
  • MicaelisMicaelis Posts: 266Member ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    He's testing now and, so far, on a given subject gut remained constant, but thoth changed. With DWC it was 25%, with shaman/serp it went up to 29.5%, and gut was flat across the board. So the bug appears to be real. 
  • MicaelisMicaelis Posts: 266Member ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    My test figures were in serp, which is on the high end at 29.5%, so given that I think the end result will (once this is likely fixed) gut > thoth's
  • AntoniusAntonius Posts: 4,244Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Micaelis said:
    He's testing now and, so far, on a given subject gut remained constant, but thoth changed. With DWC it was 25%, with shaman/serp it went up to 29.5%, and gut was flat across the board. So the bug appears to be real. 
    Try Bard?
  • MicaelisMicaelis Posts: 266Member ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    He just tried SnB, so far the values are, in ascending order (for Thoth, gut is constant): SnB: 22.5%, DWC: 25.0%, Serpent/Shaman: 29.5%. 

    It's fluctuating pretty hard.
  • MicaelisMicaelis Posts: 266Member ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    As far as incantation, at 18 int (one less than my str which is 19), my results on one test subject are an eq time of 3.1834 for incant, and values of...

    Thoth's: 1.34 %/s
    Gut: 1.33 %/s
    Incant: 1.139 %/s

    It looks like incant scales better with int than thoth/gut scale with strength, so if you're at high int and high str incant is better across the board.
  • MicaelisMicaelis Posts: 266Member ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    edited July 26
    More testing for Thoth's from Mindshell.

    SnB: 22.5%
    DWC: 25%
    Serpent/Shaman/Bard: 29.5%
    Blademastter: 32%
  • AntoniusAntonius Posts: 4,244Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I assume one of you has submitted a BUG for this? Seems like it's been conclusively proven at this point. Probably not easy to test, but would be interesting to see what result you get as a classless person (or in an empty class slot) - that should be as close to baseline as possible.
  • MicaelisMicaelis Posts: 266Member ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Yeah I'm on it
  • MicaelisMicaelis Posts: 266Member ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    edited July 26
    Shikudo monk and tekura monk are 34.5% lol.
    Dochitha
  • MicaelisMicaelis Posts: 266Member ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    @Makarios we need you to come and nerf Cooper's bashing. Please and thank you!
    Dochitha
  • DochithaDochitha Posts: 1,128Member ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Just tested dragonmonk, it is really top, is close with Shaman's lesserform (Shaman being the #2 top hunter), is gonna be my new favorite after serpent! I can put in my numbers later but now I am sitting at 3815ms ping...
  • MicaelisMicaelis Posts: 266Member ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Bug abuse! Issuing
    Dochitha
  • CooperCooper IowaPosts: 4,179Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    You're sorely mistaken if you think I bash in dform!

  • MicaelisMicaelis Posts: 266Member ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Well unless you're a 19+ dex serpent with level 3 lash, a 19+ int shaman, or a arash BM with all that entails, thoth's dragon monk is the highest you can get. 

    Think so far the only things better than dragon monk thoth's are artied out serp/shaman/BM, according to the results we're getting.
  • DochithaDochitha Posts: 1,128Member ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    edited July 26
    Hitting my hippogriff 10 times queuing balance, and then total damage divided by total time spent, here's the test result.

    Black Dragon, Thoths Fang, 23 strength.

    Lesserform Class     | Test 1    | Test 2
    =======================================
    Alchemist:              2.67% p/s | 2.67% p/s
    Bard:                      2.82% p/s | 2.84% p/s
    Depthswalker:        2.78% p/s | 2.79% p/s
    Magi:                     2.69% p/s | 2.71% p/s
    Monk:                    3.24% p/s | 3.21% p/s
    Runie DWB             2.50% p/s | 2.55% p/s
    Serpent:                 2.83% p/s | 2.85% p/s
    Shaman:                 2.80% p/s | 2.81% p/s
    Jester:                     2.61% p/s | 2.65% p/s

    Disclaimer: I tested 9 classes is all I have, don't have other classes. I also didn't change Runie spec, unsure if spec affects the result. May not be the most accurate since I wasn't hitting small denizen, but I guess it still shows dragonmonk is pulling ahead by far.
    Micaelis
  • MicaelisMicaelis Posts: 266Member ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Dochitha said:
    Hitting my hippogriff 10 times queuing balance, and then total damage divided by total time spent, here's the test result.

    Black Dragon, Thoths Fang, 23 strength.

    Lesserform Class     | Test 1    | Test 2
    =======================================
    Alchemist:              2.67% p/s | 2.67% p/s
    Bard:                      2.82% p/s | 2.84% p/s
    Depthswalker:        2.86% p/s | 2.78% p/s
    Magi:                     2.69% p/s | 2.71% p/s
    Monk:                    3.24% p/s | 3.21% p/s
    Runie DWB             2.50% p/s | 2.55% p/s
    Serpent:                 2.83% p/s | 2.85% p/s
    Shaman:                 2.80% p/s | 2.81% p/s
    Jester:                     2.61% p/s | 2.65% p/s

    Disclaimer: I tested 9 classes is all I have, don't have other classes. I also didn't change Runie spec, unsure if spec affects the result. May not be the most accurate since I wasn't hitting small denizen, but I guess it still shows dragonmonk is pulling ahead by far.
    That's lining up with the other results, which is monk>BM>serp/shaman/bard>shit no one cares about.

    Seems like an open and shut case imo.
    Dochitha
  • AtalkezAtalkez Posts: 4,147Member, Secret Squirrel @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I get Arash works out good for numbers. Go try to bash something big in Arash and see how that works out for you :|


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  • MicaelisMicaelis Posts: 266Member ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    edited July 26
    Yeah, none of it's taking into account tanking ability. I think, if you take that into account, you're probably looking at Shaman at the top. Serpent is quite squishy, without cape, and Arash is even worse iirc.

    EDIT: Unless you're referring to the recent discussion, in which case that's not Arash, that's going dragon -from- BM, and using Thoth's fang. 
    Dochitha
  • DochithaDochitha Posts: 1,128Member ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    edited July 26
    Micaelis said:
    Yeah, none of it's taking into account tanking ability. I think, if you take that into account, you're probably looking at Shaman at the top. Serpent is quite squishy, without cape, and Arash is even worse iirc.
    You nailed it. Marak, Garon attune, algiz. You go int spec and still op tanky even without cape. 
  • MicaelisMicaelis Posts: 266Member ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Can also attune Ri'shen for increase health regen. Not sure how that stacks with other things though, so not sure if you'd want the WP of Daina or the WP of Aelkesh over it!
  • DochithaDochitha Posts: 1,128Member ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    edited July 26
    Suremekh'neina. Is not needed in shaman too cos attune gain access to a level of regen, so regen arties + shaman. 
  • AustereAustere TennesseePosts: 2,071Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Dochitha said:
    Suremekh'neina. Is not needed in shaman too cos attune gain access to a level of regen, so regen arties + shaman. 
    Is Ri'shen an actual level of regen or is it closer to boar. I know when i tested it, it felt incredibly low but that's been a long time and I know I submitted at least a bug or two on it..
  • KryptonKrypton shi-KhurenaPosts: 2,275Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Ri'shen is Level 1 regen.
    (Mhaldor): Herenicus says, "Apologies, I am in-and-out of hold with Verizon wireless customer service."
    ShirszaeAustereAnkhareoutef
  • MindshellMindshell Posts: 178Member ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Mindshell said:
    Never fear, for my next project I'll be experimenting on toy dragons.
    Little did I know...

    Anyway, the damage profile for Thoth's Fang dragon.

    DRAGON using Thoth's Fang by lesserform class
    Runewarden (SnB)
    22.50% dmg, 1.90b (1.90), 11.84% p/s
    Runewarden (DWC, 2H, DWB)
    25.00% dmg, 1.90b (1.90), 13.16% p/s
    Occultist
    27.00% dmg, 1.90b (1.90), 14.21% p/s
    Jester, Alchemist
    28.50% dmg, 1.90b (1.90), 15.00% p/s
    Magi
    29.00% dmg, 1.90b (1.90), 15.26% p/s
    Bard, Depthswalker, Serpent, Shaman
    29.50% dmg, 1.90b (1.90), 15.53% p/s
    Blademaster
    32.00% dmg, 1.90b (1.90), 16.84% p/s
    Monk (Shikudo, Tekura)
    34.50% dmg, 1.90b (1.90), 18.16% p/s

    --
    This likely also qualifies my other weapon data until I can check and record by class/spec.
    DochithaMicaelis
  • LucianusLucianus Posts: 386Member ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Didn't damage of Thoth's Fang got cut down to 20 damage? Wouldn't it be better to use something of comparable speed, but with more damage? Such as a soulpiercer?
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  • KlendathuKlendathu Eye of the StormPosts: 2,633Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Lucianus said:
    Didn't damage of Thoth's Fang got cut down to 20 damage? Wouldn't it be better to use something of comparable speed, but with more damage? Such as a soulpiercer?

    Only a bard can wield a song-blessed rapier. If a bard dragonforms whilst wielding their rapier, they do not automatically unwield it, but cannot reviled it either. Pretty sure artefact rapiers come pre-song-blessed now too...

    Tharos, the Announcer of Delos shouts, "It's near the end of the egghunt and I still haven't figured out how to pronounce Clean-dat-hoo."
  • AntoniusAntonius Posts: 4,244Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Klendathu said:
    Lucianus said:
    Didn't damage of Thoth's Fang got cut down to 20 damage? Wouldn't it be better to use something of comparable speed, but with more damage? Such as a soulpiercer?

    Only a bard can wield a song-blessed rapier. If a bard dragonforms whilst wielding their rapier, they do not automatically unwield it, but cannot reviled it either. Pretty sure artefact rapiers come pre-song-blessed now too...
    Not sure if rapiers come automatically songblessed now. If they do, scimitars have almost identical stats (I believe one more point of damage in exchange for one less point of speed), so that's also an option.

    Would be interesting to see how that compares to thoth's fang.
    Dochitha
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