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PvE Analysis

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Comments

  • KryptonKrypton shi-Khurena
    What about when using the built-in attack commands for a weapon (e.g., WHIP with a whip/lash, rather than GARROTE)? Does Strength apply to all built-in commands?
  • SenaSena
    The WHIP command or any other standard weapon attacks (including inappropriate attacks, like slashing with a bow or whipping with a sword) will use strength and weaponry skill.
  • MindshellMindshell
    Sobriquet said:
    That's interesting. I was told by someone rather knowledgeable that getting strength gauntlets wouldn't increase my hunting damage. 
    You're two-handed last I saw, strength doesn't currently affect your class hunting attacks in the slightest.

    --

    i haven't forgotten this thread, just taken a break to work on other projects.
  • SenaSena
    Yeah, rereading this thread it was the knight specs other than DWC that are bugged and aren't benefiting from strength right now (they did originally, so it's almost certainly a bug).
  • SolnirSolnir
    Thank you Sena!
  • TyronTyron
    Hey my 1st post!!!!

    Weaponmastery 
    -------------
    * SLAUGHTER, DOUBLEWHIRL, WHIRL, and COMBINATION attacks now all scale with strength when targeted at denizens.

    so they scaled the attacks with strength! 

    so question is dwc still the best for hunting 80+, how the rest stack up now!?


  • MindshellMindshell
    Working through these at the moment. So far for magi only staffcast got a change, stormhsmmer remains unaltered. I'll post consolidated results when it's complete.
  • EverestEverest
    Very curious to test SnB after work. 
  • KayleKayle
    edited October 2017
    So SnB is still shit. Cool

    And almost a 7% increase p/s for 2h making it much better than DWC. That's even cooler. I like. 
  • LucianusLucianus
    edited October 2017
    SnB still bottom tier, but it's more tolerable now.

    In an era of death capes boosting player health to considerable levels for more tankiness and new crit arties like crit paragons to speed up player bashing. The argument of SNB tankiness, which was what got SNB damage nerfed to hell in the first place, is a lot less relevant now than it was in the past.

    Good to see some more positive changes to SnB though!

    *edit: stupid smartphone autocorrect*
    That is not an ordinary star, my son. That star is the tear of a warrior. A lost soul who has finished his battles somewhere on this planet. A pitiful soul who could not find his way to the lofty realm where the great spirit awaits us all.
  • SolnirSolnir
    I understand the sentiment of wanting to increase SnB damage output, but if they do that, then the next lowest has room to complain.. then the next, when that one gets buffed, and so on. Don't think we need to start that cycle.
  • LucianusLucianus
    Minus arties though. I think it's decent now.

    Once you start throwing bashing tank arties like the deathcape on though... damage output for faster bashing becomes more important.

    But I guess that brings the question of whether or not players want pve to be balanced around arties or not. Because without arties included into the factor, SnB is probably better than certain non-knight classes like non-artied monks (w/o mind crush) or non-artied blademaster with the recent damage buff from strength now being included in its bashing damage equation.
    That is not an ordinary star, my son. That star is the tear of a warrior. A lost soul who has finished his battles somewhere on this planet. A pitiful soul who could not find his way to the lofty realm where the great spirit awaits us all.
  • FarrahFarrah
    Solnir said:
    I understand the sentiment of wanting to increase SnB damage output, but if they do that, then the next lowest has room to complain.. then the next, when that one gets buffed, and so on. Don't think we need to start that cycle.

    It's not that SnB is the worst that is the problem. It's just how bad it is compared to everything else. There's not really a good argument that one class should bash at something like 60% the speed of others.
  • SolnirSolnir
    That's the logic I'm talking about though, Farrah. 

    By that logic, why's DW bashing so low?
    (For reference/reminder:
    SnB - Combination (longsword + SoA)
    26.00% dmg, 2.16b (2.40), 12.04% p/s
    DW - Reap
    28.00% dmg, 2.07b (2.30), 13.53% p/s)

    I haven't done the average of all classes/specifications best bashing, I'm just going off glancing through, but if you buff SnB because it's 60% of the average, then DW would be around 70%, give or take? So by that logic, DW would then need a buff because it's 30% (or however much, I'm bad at math) lower than the average.. see where I'm going? 

  • LucianusLucianus
    Then every class would have to be brought up to par. Shouldn't be a competition between classes in pve content. 

    Also have to consider other things beyond the main bashing attack of each class. DW for example, has access to a damage over time battlerage ability and an artie influencing the cool down of its time erasure battlerage ability. All of that makes DW bashing, at least from my experience as a DW, significantly more tolerable compared to my experience with SnB bashing.
    That is not an ordinary star, my son. That star is the tear of a warrior. A lost soul who has finished his battles somewhere on this planet. A pitiful soul who could not find his way to the lofty realm where the great spirit awaits us all.
  • TorinnTorinn
    edited October 2017
    I think priest is still pretty darn low.  I do maaaaybe 7% damage a hit.  Not sure the scale nor what to test on to give a definitive value but I'd hazard it's down there with SnB if not worse
    Deucalion says, "Torinn is quite nice."
  • AlyxeriAlyxeri
    edited October 2017
    Priest is definitely not worse than SnB. Willing to bet it's pretty close to the rest of the classes like Jester / Magi etc, but considerably tankier.
  • ThalakThalak
    I don't understand why everyone is complaining so much when there's blademasters out there trying to bash :anguished:
  • AlyxeriAlyxeri
    Probably because BM damage is relatively on par with others... It's their ability to take damage that sucks.
  • MinifieMinifie
    Some variance in bashing is fine, all classes should be slightly different and there ahould be room for min/maxing, but damn if SnB isn't all kinds of awful. Even with every tanking artie BM still suffers compared to things like runie. 
  • MindshellMindshell
    Depthswalker is one of those classes that goes back to my caveat, through the terminus hunting tree they have access to an increased critical hit rate and a damage debuff which would improve the overall true rate of performance. Also similarly to snb, depthswalker is provided exceptional tools for tanking denizen damage and so it is unsurprising their damage peaks lower than most.
  • SolnirSolnir
    I understand that and have no issue with DW hunting - my point was just that the idea of "nerf the weakest" is cyclical and would get us nowhere. Which one is the weakest doesn't matter, the cyclical process will still continue.
  • MizikMizik
    RE: SnB 

    SoA nice.
    image
  • LeviticusLeviticus
    Mizik said:
    RE: SnB 

    SoA nice.
    Paragon SOA is nicer!

    2H change is amazing, it truly is. But it doesn't beat out DWC because of speed and higher chance of crits. But it is still NICEEEEEEEEEEEEE
  • ExelethrilExelethril
    Shouldn't SnB hunting dps be raised to account for the SoA paragon effect largely mitigating the main advantage that SnB initially had? DWB with SoA paragon is beastly

    [ SnB PvP Guide | Link ]

    [ Runewarden Sparring Videos | Link ]
  • AntoniusAntonius
    Bashing modifiers don't take into account artefacts. Not that SnB being able to use a shield really justifies having a worse bashing modifier than the other specs since a buckler is pretty crap damage reduction.

    Results of disembowel testing | Knight limb counter | GMCP AB files

  • VoliVoli
    edited October 2017
    In Aetolia, our version of Priests and Paladins use swords/maces and shields. The type of shield you use determines attack speed vs. damage. I dunno if it's the same thing here, but with a buckler, I'd be hitting for very little dmg on a fast balance vs. Tower shields that would have me hitting pretty hard on a slower balance.

    Probably doesn't help much, but I don't play a knight class and have no idea if that's a thing here or not.


  • SenaSena
    That's how SnB works here, but the faster speed on bucklers gives it far better damage over time compared to stronger shields.
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