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Replacing Blackjacks

AktillumAktillum PhilippinesMember Posts: 1,368 @@ - Legendary Achaean
edited December 2013 in The Golden Dais of Creation

This is a blackjack. I'm not sure if it's a weapon or some sort of BDSM sex toy. Blackjacks should be replaced with something historical Jesters actually used, a marotte.

image

marotte is a prop stick or sceptre with a carved head on it. The word is borrowed from the French, where it signifies either a fool's (literal) "bauble", or a fad/craze. Typically carried by a jester or harlequin, the miniature head will often reflect the costume of the jester who carries it.

imageimageimage


CathyXithShirszaeJosoulMelodieEchaldBoosteyaKyrraNellaundraAveriHalosMishgulAchillesAsmodronAitoxZuko
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Comments

  • JovoloJovolo EnglandMember Posts: 3,241 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Mhmm evil creepy Jesters, yes pls.
  • XithXith Member Posts: 2,602 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I customized my blackjack for this reason.

    blackjack247558     a marotte-style blackjack resembling Xith

    This unusual blackjack consists of a long, polished handle of porcelain-white 
    elder wood, which has been tailored to its owner's grip. Affixed to the end of 
    the thin club is a lead-weighted head, its vacant visage carved flawlessly to 
    resemble a grinning Xith. Spinning in the skull's sockets are lifelike marble 
    eyes, their misaligned pupils lazily tracing the movements of those nearby in an 
    unsettling manner. A portrait of its prankster's vanity, this jester marotte has 
    been made to look exactly like Xith, even sporting miniaturised versions of his 
    current attire. Grouped inside the head are magnetic spheres that cause a 
    bizarre metallic buzzing whenever they are jostled by the weapon's collisions.

    As long as it's still sturdy enough to use for blunt attacks.
    I like my steak like I like my Magic cards: mythic rare.
    Aktillum
  • AktillumAktillum PhilippinesMember Posts: 1,368 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Current flavour text:
    You reach out and bop a large pulsating spider on the nose with your blackjack.

    What it should be:
    You bring the head of your sceptre crashing down on Jovolo's (head|left leg|torso|groin).

    image

    JovoloShirszaeAveri
  • SenaSena Member Posts: 3,957 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I don't see anything wrong with using blackjacks as a weapon. They can do plenty of damage, there's nothing silly about them (aside from the attack message, which has been badly in need of a change for a long time now).

    That being said, I also don't see anything wrong with using a staff or sceptre as a weapon, as long as it's obviously more than decorative.
    Iocun
  • AktillumAktillum PhilippinesMember Posts: 1,368 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    It'd just be a flavor text change, the stats/damage could be exactly the same as blackjacks. All they'd need to do is replace "a small blackjack" with "a wooden marotte" or "carved sceptre" or whatever.

    It just makes a lot more sense for Jester's to use sceptres, because it's a historical prop item that real life renaissance Jesters used, and they could be a blunt weapon in context.

  • CathyCathy Member Posts: 377 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    I agree with your assessment, except that right now, it is historically a blackjack that is used by jesters (historically to achaea, which is really what is important with something that has been around for so long.)

    To change it now would just be like throwing the created history out the window to fix a non-issue.

    Xith got it perfect with his idea to customise his to fit both needs.
    Achieved dragon on the 13th of Aeguary, 634 - aged 21 and 1 month and 21 days.

    Elder dragon on the 6th of Chronos 635 - aged 22 and 8 months and 14 days.
    TharvisKyriellaEilona
  • SenaSena Member Posts: 3,957 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Aside from what Cathy said (Achaean history != RL history), I'm not sure I understand the argument that it makes more sense.

    On the one hand, you have an object that was actually used by RL jesters, but it was primarily a decorative prop. On the other hand, you have an actually lethal weapon. I think the latter makes at least as much sense to use as a weapon, regardless of the historical association with jesters.

    As I said, the suggested change is fine, but blackjacks are also perfectly fine.
  • SynbiosSynbios Member Posts: 4,621 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Just change the attack message like it has always been suggested in previous ideas/classleads/forum threads to something more less 'silly' and more 'neutral'.

  • BoosteyaBoosteya Member Posts: 389 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Jesters now have daggers as well as blackjacks.

    I think the marotte option has merit.

    Question, however: How do we 'explain' the transition?

    Assuming it's even an option.
    Miin-aan baash kimini-sij-i-gan bitooyin sij-i-gan-i bukwayszhiigan = blueberry π
  • SynbiosSynbios Member Posts: 4,621 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Boosteya said:
    Jesters now have daggers as well as blackjacks.

    I think the marotte option has merit.

    Question, however: How do we 'explain' the transition?

    Assuming it's even an option.


    image

    BoosteyaXithAsmodronRiley
  • MannimarMannimar Member Posts: 973
    I think Aktillum just saw the Sith in Legend of the Seeker

    [spoiler]image[/spoiler]

    I'm pretty sure most Jesters aren't into the whole BDSM scene, and I'm positive they don't have passive healthleech.
  • KyrraKyrra AustraliaMember Posts: 4,861 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited December 2013
    Oh, I'd want a vibrating pain causing weapon that takes years of training just to be able to hold too. Where can I sign up?

    And are those outfits mandatory?
    (D.M.A.): Cooper says, "Kyrra is either the most innocent person in the world, or the girl who uses the most innuendo seemingly unintentionally but really on purpose."

    MannimarMelodie
  • MelodieMelodie Port Saint Lucie, FloridaMember Posts: 5,084 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Mord Sith are scary shit yo.

    If those existed in Achaea, Gods help us all.
               My wing tips waltz across naive
                     Wood floors they creak
                  Innocently down the stairs

                          Drag melody
    My percussive feet serve cobweb headaches as a
              Matching set of marching clocks
                The slumbering apparitions
              That they've come to wake up
    GibbiKyrraBoosteya
  • SynbiosSynbios Member Posts: 4,621 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Melodie said:
    Mord Sith are scary shit yo.

    If those existed in Achaea, Gods help us all.
    Yeah, with their Force Lightning and galaxy-spanning kaichokes and planet-busting superweapons and...oh, you're not talking about those Sith? Oops.

  • AnedhelAnedhel Member Posts: 2,367 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Be honest. It's all about wearing red leather, isn't it? It's okay. I'm sure you'd all look fantastic.
  • MelodieMelodie Port Saint Lucie, FloridaMember Posts: 5,084 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I'm suddenly imagining an enraged Melodie becoming a Mord Sith.

    I'm not exactly displeased by the notion or the image.
               My wing tips waltz across naive
                     Wood floors they creak
                  Innocently down the stairs

                          Drag melody
    My percussive feet serve cobweb headaches as a
              Matching set of marching clocks
                The slumbering apparitions
              That they've come to wake up
    Boosteya
  • HaldonHaldon I forgot...Member Posts: 180 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    What about a soft cushion? Nobody would suspect that...
    Arguing with a zealot is only slightly easier than tunneling through a mountain with your forehead.
  • XithXith Member Posts: 2,602 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Cathy said:
    I agree with your assessment, except that right now, it is historically a blackjack that is used by jesters (historically to achaea, which is really what is important with something that has been around for so long.)

    To change it now would just be like throwing the created history out the window to fix a non-issue.

    Xith got it perfect with his idea to customise his to fit both needs.
    Actually I wanted to change the base word to marotte but was told that's 500+ credits, so f that.
    How bout we get both and choose which to use?
    I like my steak like I like my Magic cards: mythic rare.
    Aktillum
  • KaieKaie Member Posts: 158 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Yeah, I'm not into this thing. Blujixapug is right, that thing looks dumb as shit. I'm content with Blackjacks being the weapon of choice and this is all just flavor change as you've mentioned, so why not just customize. I agree the bop line is sometimes weak. However, why is everyone trying to make Jester so serious sounding? Are we not Jesters? Isn't it the point to not come off serious and "hard-core?" 

    No to the "creepy jester" theme. It is a roleplaying game, and honestly it should be up to the player if they want to be "creepy" not dictated by the class. Jester as defined by the help files is a generally neutral and rogueish class. Which for me has been one of it's selling points. I'd rather not be bound to some dark and twisted theme where jester is an evil class that feasts on the blood of unborn babies or what ever. 


    AveriEilona
  • MishgulMishgul ROTHERHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMMember Posts: 5,372 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Jester is ashtan themed atm.

    -

    One of the symptoms of an approaching nervous breakdown is the belief that one's work is terribly important

    As drawn by Shayde
    hic locus est ubi mors gaudet succurrere vitae
  • AsmodronAsmodron Member Posts: 3,030 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Frankly Jesters need a remake all to themselves. They obviously just dont fit into the Achaean theme (Naysayers, go ahead and debate, dont expect me to be bothered to respond though).

    Changing Pranks to be less 'wtf' and more 'ouch wtf'.

    Giving Tarot its own swing for Jester. Currently it is much more Occie orientated.

    Just removing Puppetry completely. Im sorry to those that enjoy it, but it is an exact copy of Vodun except with a new name and 'funny' descriptions. It just looks lazy in the mechanics of game design and frankly doesnt fit very well in a Jester theme. How and Why do jesters have the ability to somehow spiritually control you through a doll..? Just blech.

    I've seen several good ideas tossed back and forth on the forums about a remake, and I -really- think Jesters need it already. They're in a bad place and need a 'restart' button pushed.
    Seftin
  • AktillumAktillum PhilippinesMember Posts: 1,368 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Asmodron said:
    Just removing Puppetry completely. Im sorry to those that enjoy it, but it is an exact copy of Vodun except with a new name and 'funny' descriptions. It just looks lazy in the mechanics of game design and frankly doesnt fit very well in a Jester theme. How and Why do jesters have the ability to somehow spiritually control you through a doll..? Just blech.
    I was with you on Pranks and Tarot, but this made me 'lolwat?'. To completely remove Puppetry you'd need to design an entire new 3rd skill for Jesters, then go in and make huge adjustments to Pranks and Tarot to complement this new skill.

    Not entirely imposible, like when Occultists lost Necromancy and gained Occultism, but it'd be a huge amount of work for a class that isn't often played anyways. It was different with Occies because they're one of the most popular PK classes, and Occultism isn't too thematically different from Necromancy, with some early skills being exactly the same (Chill|Ague, Screech|Bodywarp, Decay|Warp, etc).

    Also for the record, it does in fact make sense for Jesters to "spiritually control you through a doll", because puppets / marionettes are historically relevant to renaissance jesters.

    Eilona
  • JacenJacen Member Posts: 2,305 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    In regards to it being a ton of work and with only a single precedent, its already in the works for what, 8 of the 17 classes? No reason why jester couldn't be added if the admin were so moved to do so.
    image
  • AktillumAktillum PhilippinesMember Posts: 1,368 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited December 2013
    8 of 17 classes are having an entire skill deleted and replaced with a brand new one? Where's that information coming from? Anyways the point isn't that it's not impossible, because it is, the point is that Puppetry is the staple PK skill for Jesters. Pranks and Tarot just complement it. 

    When Occies had Necromancy replaced with Occultism, it wasn't that huge of a change because many of the Necromancy skills were re-skinned into Occultism. Really, only the path to instakill was changed. Asmodron's post is calling for a total restart on Jester skills, which is the same balancing act as adding a new class entirely. Possible? Yes. Required? Not at all. The only thing Jesters need are flavor-text changes, and my OP in this thread tries to address that by giving Jesters a better weapon thematically, that would also allow the attack message change so badly needed.

  • CathyCathy Member Posts: 377 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Aktillum said:
    8 of 17 classes are having a skill deleted and replaced with a brand new one?
    Yes, they're removing tradeskills from classes.

    Sentinel, Druid, Sylvan, Alchemist, Runewarden, Paladin, Infernal, Serpent (maybe?), Magi.
    Achieved dragon on the 13th of Aeguary, 634 - aged 21 and 1 month and 21 days.

    Elder dragon on the 6th of Chronos 635 - aged 22 and 8 months and 14 days.
    Jacen
  • JacenJacen Member Posts: 2,305 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    3 with Forging, 1 with Enchantment, 1 with Venoms, 3 with Concoctions, 1 with Transmutation... I think that's it.

    Skills aren't being deleted, tradeskills are being divorced from classes.
    image
  • AktillumAktillum PhilippinesMember Posts: 1,368 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Ah, that's completely different then. Tradeskills are being divorced from classes to make way for multi-classing. It's unknown if those mentioned classes will receive brand new, offensive-based skills. I mean, say you take away Forging from Infernals. They still have Chivalry + Necromancy, adding a 3rd skill with offensive abilities would mean that they're entirely reworking Achaean combat for 8 different classes. Hey, maybe miracles do happen.

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