Replacing Blackjacks

Aktillum

This is a blackjack. I'm not sure if it's a weapon or some sort of BDSM sex toy. Blackjacks should be replaced with something historical Jesters actually used, a marotte.

A marotte is a prop stick or sceptre with a carved head on it. The word is borrowed from the French, where it signifies either a fool's (literal) "bauble", or a fad/craze. Typically carried by a jester or harlequin, the miniature head will often reflect the costume of the jester who carries it.

Jovolo

Mhmm evil creepy Jesters, yes pls.

Xith

I customized my blackjack for this reason.

blackjack247558     a marotte-style blackjack resembling Xith

This unusual blackjack consists of a long, polished handle of porcelain-white 

elder wood, which has been tailored to its owner's grip. Affixed to the end of 

the thin club is a lead-weighted head, its vacant visage carved flawlessly to 

resemble a grinning Xith. Spinning in the skull's sockets are lifelike marble 

eyes, their misaligned pupils lazily tracing the movements of those nearby in an 

unsettling manner. A portrait of its prankster's vanity, this jester marotte has 

been made to look exactly like Xith, even sporting miniaturised versions of his 

current attire. Grouped inside the head are magnetic spheres that cause a 

bizarre metallic buzzing whenever they are jostled by the weapon's collisions.

As long as it's still sturdy enough to use for blunt attacks.

Aktillum

Current flavour text:

You reach out and bop a large pulsating spider on the nose with your blackjack.

What it should be:

You bring the head of your sceptre crashing down on Jovolo's (head|left leg|torso|groin).

Sena

I don't see anything wrong with using blackjacks as a weapon. They can do plenty of damage, there's nothing silly about them (aside from the attack message, which has been badly in need of a change for a long time now).

That being said, I also don't see anything wrong with using a staff or sceptre as a weapon, as long as it's obviously more than decorative.

Aktillum

It'd just be a flavor text change, the stats/damage could be exactly the same as blackjacks. All they'd need to do is replace "a small blackjack" with "a wooden marotte" or "carved sceptre" or whatever.

It just makes a lot more sense for Jester's to use sceptres, because it's a historical prop item that real life renaissance Jesters used, and they could be a blunt weapon in context.

Cathy

I agree with your assessment, except that right now, it is historically a blackjack that is used by jesters (historically to achaea, which is really what is important with something that has been around for so long.)

To change it now would just be like throwing the created history out the window to fix a non-issue.

Xith got it perfect with his idea to customise his to fit both needs.

Sena

Aside from what Cathy said (Achaean history != RL history), I'm not sure I understand the argument that it makes more sense.

On the one hand, you have an object that was actually used by RL jesters, but it was primarily a decorative prop. On the other hand, you have an actually lethal weapon. I think the latter makes at least as much sense to use as a weapon, regardless of the historical association with jesters.

As I said, the suggested change is fine, but blackjacks are also perfectly fine.

Blujixapug

That thing looks retarded. It'd be more plausible to replace them with lead-lined codpieces, and Bop with a Pelvicthrust attack. (That was hyperbole to demonstrate how dumb I think your Pez dispenser-looking thing is.)

Synbios

Just change the attack message like it has always been suggested in previous ideas/classleads/forum threads to something more less 'silly' and more 'neutral'.

Boosteya

Jesters now have daggers as well as blackjacks.

I think the marotte option has merit.

Question, however: How do we 'explain' the transition?

Assuming it's even an option.

Synbios

Boosteya said:

Jesters now have daggers as well as blackjacks.

I think the marotte option has merit.

Question, however: How do we 'explain' the transition?

Assuming it's even an option.

Mannimar

I think Aktillum just saw the Sith in Legend of the Seeker

[spoiler][/spoiler]

I'm pretty sure most Jesters aren't into the whole BDSM scene, and I'm positive they don't have passive healthleech.

Kyrra

Oh, I'd want a vibrating pain causing weapon that takes years of training just to be able to hold too. Where can I sign up?

And are those outfits mandatory?

Melodie

Mord Sith are scary shit yo.

If those existed in Achaea, Gods help us all.

Synbios

Melodie said:

Mord Sith are scary shit yo.

If those existed in Achaea, Gods help us all.

Yeah, with their Force Lightning and galaxy-spanning kaichokes and planet-busting superweapons and...oh, you're not talking about those Sith? Oops.

Anedhel

Be honest. It's all about wearing red leather, isn't it? It's okay. I'm sure you'd all look fantastic.

Melodie

I'm suddenly imagining an enraged Melodie becoming a Mord Sith.

I'm not exactly displeased by the notion or the image.

Haldon

What about a soft cushion? Nobody would suspect that...

Xith

Cathy said:

I agree with your assessment, except that right now, it is historically a blackjack that is used by jesters (historically to achaea, which is really what is important with something that has been around for so long.)

To change it now would just be like throwing the created history out the window to fix a non-issue.

Xith got it perfect with his idea to customise his to fit both needs.

Actually I wanted to change the base word to marotte but was told that's 500+ credits, so f that.

How bout we get both and choose which to use?

Kaie

Yeah, I'm not into this thing. Blujixapug is right, that thing looks dumb as shit. I'm content with Blackjacks being the weapon of choice and this is all just flavor change as you've mentioned, so why not just customize. I agree the bop line is sometimes weak. However, why is everyone trying to make Jester so serious sounding? Are we not Jesters? Isn't it the point to not come off serious and "hard-core?" 

No to the "creepy jester" theme. It is a roleplaying game, and honestly it should be up to the player if they want to be "creepy" not dictated by the class. Jester as defined by the help files is a generally neutral and rogueish class. Which for me has been one of it's selling points. I'd rather not be bound to some dark and twisted theme where jester is an evil class that feasts on the blood of unborn babies or what ever. 

Mishgul

Jester is ashtan themed atm.

Iocun

Kaie said:

Yeah, I'm not into this thing. Blujixapug is right, that thing looks dumb as shit. I'm content with Blackjacks being the weapon of choice and this is all just flavor change as you've mentioned, so why not just customize. I agree the bop line is sometimes weak. However, why is everyone trying to make Jester so serious sounding? Are we not Jesters? Isn't it the point to not come off serious and "hard-core?" 

No to the "creepy jester" theme. It is a roleplaying game, and honestly it should be up to the player if they want to be "creepy" not dictated by the class. Jester as defined by the help files is a generally neutral and rogueish class. Which for me has been one of it's selling points. I'd rather not be bound to some dark and twisted theme where jester is an evil class that feasts on the blood of unborn babies or what ever. 

Yeah, "creepy jester" is far worse than "silly jester" in my eyes anyways, and I personally don't think jesters need to become "serious". What they do need however, is a change of flavour texts that keep them trapped in excessive silliness and any things that lessen their credibility as a part of the Achaean world. The neutrality you mention should also allow for the option to not be quite as silly.

Things like ridable balloon giraffes are bad because rather than merely giving jesters a tool to RP silliness if they want to, they make a silly thing an actual, relevant part of the game world, providing actual benefits for being mounted, and thus make the entire game more silly. Jesters should be free to pretend play all sorts of things for comical effect, but it should always stay an IC pretend play, and not become an effective in-game reality. Thus, anything a Jester has that has a tangible effect on the environment, npcs, or other players should be sensible and compatible with the seriousness of the game world in general. Your character can tell bad jokes as much as he likes, but it shouldn't be an effective mechanic to strip an experienced warrior's shield. Your character can lightly bop people on the nose with a blackjack as long as he wants, but it shouldn't be the attack of choice to defend yourself from a bandit attack.

Asmodron

Frankly Jesters need a remake all to themselves. They obviously just dont fit into the Achaean theme (Naysayers, go ahead and debate, dont expect me to be bothered to respond though).

Changing Pranks to be less 'wtf' and more 'ouch wtf'.

Giving Tarot its own swing for Jester. Currently it is much more Occie orientated.

Just removing Puppetry completely. Im sorry to those that enjoy it, but it is an exact copy of Vodun except with a new name and 'funny' descriptions. It just looks lazy in the mechanics of game design and frankly doesnt fit very well in a Jester theme. How and Why do jesters have the ability to somehow spiritually control you through a doll..? Just blech.

I've seen several good ideas tossed back and forth on the forums about a remake, and I -really- think Jesters need it already. They're in a bad place and need a 'restart' button pushed.

Aktillum

Asmodron said:

Just removing Puppetry completely. Im sorry to those that enjoy it, but it is an exact copy of Vodun except with a new name and 'funny' descriptions. It just looks lazy in the mechanics of game design and frankly doesnt fit very well in a Jester theme. How and Why do jesters have the ability to somehow spiritually control you through a doll..? Just blech.

I was with you on Pranks and Tarot, but this made me 'lolwat?'. To completely remove Puppetry you'd need to design an entire new 3rd skill for Jesters, then go in and make huge adjustments to Pranks and Tarot to complement this new skill.

Not entirely imposible, like when Occultists lost Necromancy and gained Occultism, but it'd be a huge amount of work for a class that isn't often played anyways. It was different with Occies because they're one of the most popular PK classes, and Occultism isn't too thematically different from Necromancy, with some early skills being exactly the same (Chill|Ague, Screech|Bodywarp, Decay|Warp, etc).

Also for the record, it does in fact make sense for Jesters to "spiritually control you through a doll", because puppets / marionettes are historically relevant to renaissance jesters.

Jacen

In regards to it being a ton of work and with only a single precedent, its already in the works for what, 8 of the 17 classes? No reason why jester couldn't be added if the admin were so moved to do so.

Aktillum

8 of 17 classes are having an entire skill deleted and replaced with a brand new one? Where's that information coming from? Anyways the point isn't that it's not impossible, because it is, the point is that Puppetry is the staple PK skill for Jesters. Pranks and Tarot just complement it. 

When Occies had Necromancy replaced with Occultism, it wasn't that huge of a change because many of the Necromancy skills were re-skinned into Occultism. Really, only the path to instakill was changed. Asmodron's post is calling for a total restart on Jester skills, which is the same balancing act as adding a new class entirely. Possible? Yes. Required? Not at all. The only thing Jesters need are flavor-text changes, and my OP in this thread tries to address that by giving Jesters a better weapon thematically, that would also allow the attack message change so badly needed.

Cathy

Aktillum said:

8 of 17 classes are having a skill deleted and replaced with a brand new one?

Yes, they're removing tradeskills from classes.

Sentinel, Druid, Sylvan, Alchemist, Runewarden, Paladin, Infernal, Serpent (maybe?), Magi.

Jacen

3 with Forging, 1 with Enchantment, 1 with Venoms, 3 with Concoctions, 1 with Transmutation... I think that's it.

Skills aren't being deleted, tradeskills are being divorced from classes.

Aktillum

Ah, that's completely different then. Tradeskills are being divorced from classes to make way for multi-classing. It's unknown if those mentioned classes will receive brand new, offensive-based skills. I mean, say you take away Forging from Infernals. They still have Chivalry + Necromancy, adding a 3rd skill with offensive abilities would mean that they're entirely reworking Achaean combat for 8 different classes. Hey, maybe miracles do happen.

Jacen

... You think they would take away tradeskills from classes so that they could... add more tradeskills to classes? You think a new defensive skillset wouldn't utterly change the way a class is played?

We're talking about removing a skillset from Jester and adding a new skillset, which is exactly what they're doing with 8 or 9 of the existing classes. Maybe Puppetry really does belong with jester, maybe not, but arguing that its too much work to change is a bit pointless.