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Much steal. Very hide. Wow.
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
@Profit
I do wish more people would put in that kind of effort. Set traps, be patient, and hatch plans and backup plans. Anyone can be gotten.
This may sound good on paper, but it's also the same sort of scenario for seeking revenge against someone at sea. You can patrol all around, wait at a dock, set a trap, or any number of things and the chances of even seeing your target are still extremely low, not to mention successfully catching them and doing anything if you do manage to catch them.
I have spent hours at a time in the past attempting such things, only for everyone to get bored and not want to do it anymore, let along with any sort of consistency. It's the same sort of scenario with trying to catch, and then kill, a thief who doesn't want it to happen. It's just tedious, unrealistic, and no one really wants to go through the effort for what equates to no real consequence for the other party in the end.
@Eryl
I'm not particularly concerned about baby players, though it would be remiss not to mention that newer players have and will continue to quit after being robbed. That's simply a fact. Every time I've intercepted a thief over the last week, they've been casing tendril so and so or Vanguard recruit x.
My complaints have been and will continue to be:
A) The thief has way less skin in the game than the victim: both in the likelihood of being caught, and the consequences of being caught are way less for the thief than the consequences of being robbed.
B) in addition to having more skin in the game, there's no way for players to opt out of this game, unlike all other conflict systems. It's unique and not in a good way in that regard.
If the admin are staying away from this conversation because people are ardently expressing their opinions over it, then an excellent way to calm people down would be to make an official statement about what, if anything should be done about the current state of theft. If the job of an administrator is to oversee the game community, it's baffling to me that they won't even make a statement about what is arguably the largest issue plaguing their playerbase. That has to be high on the list, surely.
I have spent hours at a time in the past attempting such things, only for everyone to get bored and not want to do it anymore, let along with any sort of consistency.
Got it. Nothing in Achaea, a game that has maintained a persistent universe for 26 years, should take more than fifteen minutes or be more difficult than wrangling three friends to go see the new Ant-Man movie.
Especially not theft.
(if we’re being hyperbolic for fun)
Gave up the classless bash-o-thon at 89(10%)
Especially not theft.
Correct. If you averaged the amount of time I've spent casing and following people to get one backpack, I would be willing to bet it would be measured in days, not hours.
Yes, you can get lucky once in a great while and manage it in under an hour. But you can also spin the wheel and win a Veil, so luck is always a factor.
I have to think that there truly is a lot of misunderstanding about the difficult of thieving important items. It really is more than a 15 minute endeavor, though it's definitely a case of being more time consuming and tedious than mechanically difficult.
Got it. Nothing in Achaea, a game that has maintained a persistent universe for 26 years, should take more than fifteen minutes or be more difficult than wrangling three friends to go see the new Ant-Man movie.
I'd much rather watch any Ant-Man movie than cruise the text seas for three hours looking for someone and not find them, or even better, find them but have them immediately run and hide. Which is why I stopped doing it. Just because you have fun running doesn't mean people have fun chasing you.
Yeah, but the payout is all from one person. If all you lost was a couple of sigils you don't think it is much of a problem. When you lose all your good stuff it doesn't matter that the thief has spent 100 hours casing everyone else, you are the one paying the price with 100 hours worth of stuff.
Just because you have fun running doesn't mean people have fun chasing you.
That's... Achaea? And to a larger extent, that's... video games?
There are a lot of things that one player does that another player might not find fun. Just because you have fun bashing doesn't mean I have fun watching you.
The good thing, in your example and mine, is that we don't have to do the thing that isn't fun to us. You don't have to chase me and I don't have to watch you.
Nobody forces you to watch them bash. People do force you to be robbed. Quite literally. What it seems you're saying is that Profit's fun is more valuable than the fun of the person you're robbing, which hey, if that's your argument, then go for it. But don't pussy foot around the fact that it's pretty antisocial.
Sounds like Profit is in favor of OPT IN mechanics! Sounds like we got him on board...let's do this!
I really appreciate @Eryl strolling into this thread to claim that Fairweather is wrong about the reason he quit (a reason he had, in fact, explicitly stated) and then pivot from that to 'and he wasn't even playing the game right anyway!'
Nobody forces you to watch them bash. People do force you to be robbed.
That wasn't the argument he was making. The argument he was making was that it wasn't fun to chase thieves. If you're going to misrepresent the argument, at least wait until people have forgotten what the original discussion was about. It's really easy to just scroll up and see that you're being disingenuous here and stretching things to fit your neat little worldview.
Sounds like Profit is in favor of OPT IN mechanics!
If you are playing Achaea, you are opting in, so... sure? I'm pretty sure I was clear about this in my previous post. When you choose to engage with Achaea, you choose to opt in to a world shaped and built by other players. By accepting that basic premise, you have opted in to the concept of not always exerting control over every aspect of the game, the world, and - yes - your character. If you want absolute control over all circumstances, Achaea just isn't the game for you.
In this game, things just happen.
I mean the entire point isn't that it's impossible or unfun to kill thieves (though, like, it is!), it's that it is completely and abjectly meaningless. You can ambush a thief all you want, but it does nothing to actually punish or change the outcome of the theft? So IDK what bearing your point has on it.
Have we complained about how easy it is for thieves to escape? Yes!
Is it why theft is a bad mechanic? No!
Haha...That is a terrible argument...there is literally nothing else in the game where the "Opt In" is simply logging in. I don't have to take part in a city, events, PK, seafaring, literally anything else...except for theft...
It might be luck. You might spin that wheel and win a veil but when you do win it doesn't take that veil away from another player to give to you.
Now who’s being disingenuous? There are a GREAT MANY lines to color inside of in Achaea, with more being drawn regularly and occasionally without much rhyme or reason.
An insane mass murderer, roleplayed to perfection, is still a shrub inside of a week from their first bloody murder.
i appreciate you’re defending your piece of the game, but I’d appreciate it much more if you’d call it what it is and stop trying to gain the high ground by comparing the act of taking a thing from someone to the effort of that person getting the thing in the first place.
More than any other activity in the game, the scale is imbalanced here, and you’re doing everyone participating in good faith a disservice by pretending it isn’t.
Gave up the classless bash-o-thon at 89(10%)
I don't have to take part in a city, events, PK, seafaring, literally anything else...except for theft...
I would say that in order to 'play' Achaea, you have to opt in to a lot of those (and other) things.
Yes, you can log in and sit stationary on guards talking to your friends but, at that point, are you really 'playing' Achaea? I would argue that to play Achaea, you have to opt in to it. You have to engage with it in ways where you are, in one way or another, ceding some level of control over your character's fate.
Sounds good...give up your veil.
Sounds good...give up your veil.
So you're ceding your argument?
Because this is a completely different argument that requires you to accept that your previous position was incorrect.
If you give up your veil I'll cede my argument. ;)
If you're going to misrepresent the argument...
Actually, my argument (that you misconstrued to fit your own narrative) was that pursuing recourse against theft is about as efficient and practical as it is pursuing recourse against someone who attacked you at sea. It's 95% in favour of the party being pursued, which as a result makes it incredibly tedious and at times frustrating. It not being fun is a product of that imbalance.
Sure, but everything I said still applies to this new, updated version of your argument, so just reread my previous reply and pretend I ended this post with an obscure pop culture reference or something.
Things that you cannot 'get me' with while I am bashing, merchanting, and questing unless I further 'opt in':
Furthermore, if I do decide to engage in any of the above things, then the consequences (and opt-in) exist within:
1) the same realm
2) a limited duration
Theft violates all of these completely, with no recourse. Even if you never, ever, ever get anything from me, it requires an investment of effort (1 time) and then dealing with you showing up and snapping your fingers at me, making me react or risk losing something from my inventory. There is no game system I can engage with to get rid of you. I can engage with you, directly, but that is rather akin to being told "well yes he's hitting you with your own hand, you should see if you can negotiate with him to make it stop". No other mechanic in the game works like this, and no other mechanic in the game - regardless of the odds, regardless of the time spent, the investment, etc. - has a comparable 'best case' for the attacker compared to a much worse 'best case' for the defender.
Logging in and sitting on guards is 100% a valid way to play and it doesn't protect you from theft if someone decides to unenemy the thief. You say sitting on guards and chatting isn't playing the game, I say stealing shit from people isn't playing the game. Both of us are wrong because the Admin support both play styles.
There is no game system I can engage with to get rid of you.
There is actually (at least) one game system and (at least) one game mechanic that you can engage with to get rid of a thief. One has a chance of failure, one is absolutely infallible. If you doubt that's true, get an admin to hear me describe them and they can verify I'm being honest.
I mean, putting you on ignore to block snap seems cheesy, assuming that's the one you mean. Wandering around trueblind to block hypnosis is also a pain in the ass.
Standing in the city looping 'mind lock Profit' with it gagged is also an option, but a kind of tiring one, as is appending 'battlefury distract profit' to your bashing attacks if you're 2h to interrupt casing.
Sure, but everything I said still applies to this new, updated version of your argument, so just reread my previous reply and pretend I ended this post with an obscure pop culture reference or something.
Same version of the same argument, just reiterated without your twisting the words. Feel free to reread it and end it with whatever obscure pop culture reference you fancy.
Wait, ignore stops an entire skillset? That seems.... very broken.
I mean, putting you on ignore to block snap seems cheesy, assuming that's the one you mean. Wandering around trueblind to block hypnosis is also a pain in the ass.
So is the argument now that you can opt out, you just don't like the ways that you can opt out?