Seamonstering changes?

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  • Makarios said:
    Guys, relax. The team is looking into the gold and specific situations, getting the fix out first was more important.

    If there's one thing we aren't good at it is relaxing!
  • Dude they just posted the fix, I'm sure they're still working on other stuff. Man, ya'll freak out so fast.




    Penwize has cowardly forfeited the challenge to mortal combat issued by Atalkez.
  • Just so there's some accurate numbers out there, I took a look at a hunt from not long ago (I wasn't there but I can see the shiplog). Four ships, 2.5 hours, 60 level 4+ monsters killed. 7 of them were leviathans with a higher trophy value. The total gold was 3,350,000. So just under a million gold per ship. It's a lot, and definitely more than should be allowed, but it's not as high as what some people have been throwing around. 
  • Laedha said:
    Just so there's some accurate numbers out there, I took a look at a hunt from not long ago (I wasn't there but I can see the shiplog). Four ships, 2.5 hours, 60 level 4+ monsters killed. 7 of them were leviathans with a higher trophy value. The total gold was 3,350,000. So just under a million gold per ship. It's a lot, and definitely more than should be allowed, but it's not as high as what some people have been throwing around. 
    I hadn't said it was overall. I was saying how much was potentially introduced via Tarvius alone. 3.35 million gold for 2.5 hours and 4 ships is still insane. One person alone can maybe bash to gold cap (250k is the hard hard cap? 170k is the soft cap round-about) in 2~4 hours, depending. Also with certain people (Icraa) screaming to everyone and their mother that me and Tesha are the SOURCE OF ALL THEIR WOES because we revealed unto the admins this bug is incredibly telling that some of y'all fuckers knew what was going on and explicitly didn't bug this.
  • Good job this wasn't happening leading up to a whole load of auctions....

    Oh, wait. 

    (Party): Mezghar says, "Stop."
  • Sobriquet said:
    Good job this wasn't happening leading up to a whole load of auctions....

    Oh, wait. 
    Wonder if the burst of auctions is because of a hurting bottom line?
  • Adrik said:
    Laedha said:
    Just so there's some accurate numbers out there, I took a look at a hunt from not long ago (I wasn't there but I can see the shiplog). Four ships, 2.5 hours, 60 level 4+ monsters killed. 7 of them were leviathans with a higher trophy value. The total gold was 3,350,000. So just under a million gold per ship. It's a lot, and definitely more than should be allowed, but it's not as high as what some people have been throwing around. 
    I hadn't said it was overall. I was saying how much was potentially introduced via Tarvius alone. 3.35 million gold for 2.5 hours and 4 ships is still insane. One person alone can maybe bash to gold cap (250k is the hard hard cap? 170k is the soft cap round-about) in 2~4 hours, depending. Also with certain people (Icraa) screaming to everyone and their mother that me and Tesha are the SOURCE OF ALL THEIR WOES because we revealed unto the admins this bug is incredibly telling that some of y'all fuckers knew what was going on and explicitly didn't bug this.
    I don't go around looking at random shiplogs to see how much gold they're making on a regular basis. But I don't know if I would have bugged it for 800k per ship from a two hour hunt on level 4s. Probably not. 
  • KresslackKresslack Florida, United States
    Adrik said:
    The fact that people generated "up to ten million gold in the span of a couple of hours on a near-daily basis" and people didn't get fucking shrubbed is god damn laughable.

    Also, @Kresslack you of all people should know to be wary of gold generation bugs from seafaring.
    I've only just returned this week from a long absence. I got asked if I wanted to go seamonster hunting and said sure. Hopped on a ship, we went out to some place on the east side of the map, and I did notice there were a lot of ships there but I just thought it was because it was the top tier zone and they were needed.

    After about four hours or so people started calling it and we all headed in, everyone sold the trophies and we split it amongst the 12 or more people involved across all vessels. Think I got like 200k. Haven't been back out since, but at the rate of what we did that night the statement of people pulling in "upwards of ten million in a couple of hours" that the news post mentions seems completely exaggerated to make it look a lot worse than it was. If I had to guess I think the total amount for that trip was a little over three million, which is still a lot, but that was over the span of multiple hours with multiple ships involved.

    I don't have an issue with the 15 min timer cap on the top tier zones, as these seem to require assistance in order to drop the seamonster before it drops you (just judging this on previous trip before I went dormant where five of us on a galley were sunk by a leviathan or something crazy). But being able to stack ships with the spawn rate being per ship instead of a flat timer definitely makes it very lucrative. The lower level zones, if they remain under this current change, will just go unused completely I imagine because if you have to wait 15 mins either way, you might as well do so in the place that yields the better reward.


  • Minifie said:
    Sobriquet said:
    Good job this wasn't happening leading up to a whole load of auctions....

    Oh, wait. 
    Wonder if the burst of auctions is because of a hurting bottom line?


    Happy to put this concern at ease - Achaea is doing very well (actually better than expected since isolation has a way of boosting gaming services due to limited alternatives). Auctions are just to complement the credit sale, no other particular reason!

  • edited July 2020
    Laedha said:
    Adrik said:
    Laedha said:
    Just so there's some accurate numbers out there, I took a look at a hunt from not long ago (I wasn't there but I can see the shiplog). Four ships, 2.5 hours, 60 level 4+ monsters killed. 7 of them were leviathans with a higher trophy value. The total gold was 3,350,000. So just under a million gold per ship. It's a lot, and definitely more than should be allowed, but it's not as high as what some people have been throwing around. 
    I hadn't said it was overall. I was saying how much was potentially introduced via Tarvius alone. 3.35 million gold for 2.5 hours and 4 ships is still insane. One person alone can maybe bash to gold cap (250k is the hard hard cap? 170k is the soft cap round-about) in 2~4 hours, depending. Also with certain people (Icraa) screaming to everyone and their mother that me and Tesha are the SOURCE OF ALL THEIR WOES because we revealed unto the admins this bug is incredibly telling that some of y'all fuckers knew what was going on and explicitly didn't bug this.
    I don't go around looking at random shiplogs to see how much gold they're making on a regular basis. But I don't know if I would have bugged it for 800k per ship from a two hour hunt on level 4s. Probably not. 
    If you're making 800k gold per ship (1.6 million gold) for 2 hours of work. Something is very clearly wrong. If it was just 2 ships, that means they're spawning a lot of monsters or what have you. If those were the only two you had access to see shiplogs for, then that's fine. The issue is that there are numerous galleys that have sprung up since this has been discovered, and you likely don't have access to seeing.

    So 800k / ship for 2 hours could very well be a lot higher if a 3rd ship was involved and also got it's own kills, etc.

    If those 2 ships only had 4 crew each, that's still 200k gold for 2 hours (that doesn't affect gold cap).. which is very strong, but reasonable. However, the more likely case is it was 2 people, or even 1 per ship.

    You were not part of "Y'all fuckers" though. (It was mostly Icraa, and whoever he told).  Still love u @Laedha , even if you don't let me into your house hall.
  • Wow, people aren't even going to tag me when I'm getting accused of having a vast, secret navy fortune? Believe me, I'd have won a lot more auctions if I had a Scrooge McDuck money pit or liked embezzlement. Or at least I'd be less in debt after that auction.

    More seriously, I've gone out seamonstering a few times with Tarvius for renown when a friend dragged me out (as seamonster hunting remains just about the only way besides forays to reliably get even half your renown total, -if- you're lucky enough to hit a leviathan. Which, as I learned, is not a reliable thing even over several hours). I found the experience as enjoyable and the gold about as profitable as regular hunting, which is to say that I didn't like it much. Except one time when I was out solo with a friend and a leviathan almost ate us, which was a blast.

    Looking up the level of the zones we were hunting in, it looks like just about every time I went out with them was for a level three zone, except for one time where we were in a lower level one (it had the angler fish, don't ask me where we were). Nothing about any of those times seemed especially profitable compared to regular hunting.  So it sounds like things were more profitable (and too profitable) in the even higher level zones. But from what I've seen in my limited time on boats, this just wasn't where the majority of hunting was happening.

    So @Adrik, maybe try turning down the wild accusations, vitriol, and misinformation by, say, 20%. This may go without saying, but rabidly attacking others, particularly casting accusations against people you don't know and factions you're not in, is just straight-up toxic. Let the admin do their job, they don't need you to start witch hunts.


  • Disappearing from Achaea for now. See you, space cowboy.


    smileyface#8048 if you wanna chat.

  • KresslackKresslack Florida, United States
    Endryn said:
    The only people I really blame for the amount of gold we were able to make are the pirates. Anyone could have taken the zanzi zone from us at any time, that's part of the high risk. There was risk, just the other players didn't know how, or care enough to come out and try to attack us. We got too good at something, and like a lot of things in Achaea, the rich got richer. We we able to get so far ahead of everyone else they didn't stand a chance of catching us, so the garden changed the mechanic. 

    Side note: I don't know who the announce post was talking about, but it sure wasn't us. Being able to make 10 mil in 2 hours isn't even mathematically possible. So there's a group of seamonster hunters out there who were -way- better than us. 
    I don't know a single pirate that would have sailed into a group of ships that is already wrecking a level 4 seamonster unless they had a full compliment across maybe three ships at least. So I don't really see that as any real explanation or excuse. Essentially these mechanics have been in place for years and apparently someone discovered a set of conditions that maximized potential profit while minimizing risk and (attempting) to minimize the time investment. 

    The only differences I noticed the time I went out was a) it was a different, apparently much higher zone than I was used to (usually would hunt the lvl 2? zone near Tapoa) and b) instead of rotating kills like used to be the method with multiple ships, everyone just killed it as quikly as possible and all ships involved split the entire profit evenly across ships and crew who partook. 

    In the past, we would have groups form at the Tapoa spot usually would just start with one person, then other people would sail out, join the rotation, and you got to kill what you personally pulled, and then you helped the next person weaken their monster so they could kill it. While this process was typically much slower, and the zone itself with just your individual kills might yield you about 30-50k an hour. I remember having a day off and spending about 5-6 hours out there (in the Tapoa zone) and since I got a few of the Kashari Raider pulls my total for that day was probably close to 300k. 

    Compared to the trip the other night where the average total per ship was around 400k for about 4 hours of hunting with multiple ships, and at least 2 people per ship, I made about 200k from that trip. Not exact numbers, but best estimates based on memory.

    That being the case, I find it hard to believe that anyone, even as a group, was pulling anywhere close to 10 mil in just a couple of hours, or even a half or a quarter of that.


  • You basically validated my point Kresslack. At the beginning it was completely within the player-base's capability to have initiated conflict in such a way that it would of drastically limited the potential payout of the zone 4 area. By the time we got to 6 ships, with seasoned captains, sailing in an area they all knew very well, it was no longer feasible for the player-base to police us. So the mechanic got changed. 
  • Cooper said:
    Now that multiple ship related gold situations have come up, can we please re-evaluate the gold cap for bashing? It didn't make sense when it was implemented, it didn't make sense after the first ship exploit was fixed, and it certainly doesn't make sense now.

    <removed mak tag because he's obviously already watching this thread>
    As someone who has literally never hit bashing cap, I also don't see a point in it being as low as it is. I state I've never hit cap simply to say that I have nothing to gain from it being raised, but credit investment for better bashing is a thing. If someone wants to brain dead hunt for a higher cap, let them. It's still someone playing the game, and unless literally no one has found it yet, there aren't any "millions of gold per hour" areas in existence so it's not going to be game breaking. 

    Jumpy said:
    The membership is already such a good deal that there is no way we can reduce the cost. 

  • Endryn said:
    You basically validated my point Kresslack. At the beginning it was completely within the player-base's capability to have initiated conflict in such a way that it would of drastically limited the potential payout of the zone 4 area. By the time we got to 6 ships, with seasoned captains, sailing in an area they all knew very well, it was no longer feasible for the player-base to police us. So the mechanic got changed. 
    Man. I don't even need to say how much of an entitled spoiled brat you are. Because you fucking did it for everyone here.

    It said "a couple of hours". Not 2 hours. could've been 10 million gold in 4-5 hours, etc. Anyways, hope you've saved up enough for what's headed your way!
  • Well I for one am glad you are about as good at threats as you are at math.
  • Come on... a couple is two... a few is three or more.... design rejected try again...
  • Adrik said:
    Endryn said:
    You basically validated my point Kresslack. At the beginning it was completely within the player-base's capability to have initiated conflict in such a way that it would of drastically limited the potential payout of the zone 4 area. By the time we got to 6 ships, with seasoned captains, sailing in an area they all knew very well, it was no longer feasible for the player-base to police us. So the mechanic got changed. 
    Man. I don't even need to say how much of an entitled spoiled brat you are. Because you fucking did it for everyone here.

    It said "a couple of hours". Not 2 hours. could've been 10 million gold in 4-5 hours, etc. Anyways, hope you've saved up enough for what's headed your way!
    I am trying to understand what should be headed anyones way in this situation. Ships had a timer for pulling a seamonster. They brought friends to seamonster. The ships pulled their seamonsters. The seamonsters got shot. They split the loot. There was no bugs being utilized. It appears all mechanically sound. Maybe it was not seamonstering as envisioned. But it is all mechanically sound. 
  • Gribbit said:
    Adrik said:
    Endryn said:
    You basically validated my point Kresslack. At the beginning it was completely within the player-base's capability to have initiated conflict in such a way that it would of drastically limited the potential payout of the zone 4 area. By the time we got to 6 ships, with seasoned captains, sailing in an area they all knew very well, it was no longer feasible for the player-base to police us. So the mechanic got changed. 
    Man. I don't even need to say how much of an entitled spoiled brat you are. Because you fucking did it for everyone here.

    It said "a couple of hours". Not 2 hours. could've been 10 million gold in 4-5 hours, etc. Anyways, hope you've saved up enough for what's headed your way!
    I am trying to understand what should be headed anyones way in this situation. Ships had a timer for pulling a seamonster. They brought friends to seamonster. The ships pulled their seamonsters. The seamonsters got shot. They split the loot. There was no bugs being utilized. It appears all mechanically sound. Maybe it was not seamonstering as envisioned. But it is all mechanically sound. 

    If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.

    This was, and was changed. Given the precedence already set by the Admin in similar situations (IRE vs Accipter), (IRE vs Kresslack), (IRE vs Zulah) the a punishment should be coming the way of people who made off with more gold than was intended. 



    (Party): Mezghar says, "Stop."
  • edited July 2020
    Let's say you have six ships and you pulled as soon as your timer was up.

    Assuming perfect rotations (unlikely, sometimes the monsters don't play ball) and no time wastage during killing (very possible if you only have one person per ship to maximize fire rate), in a 10 minute spawn nest that pays out 50,000 per (a typical level 4 nest - there's more than one, Zanzi is just the easiest to get to), you earn 300,000 across the group every 10 minutes, or 1.8 million over an hour.

    I'm assuming there's some hyperbole involved in the news post, and we shouldn't quibble that specific number, but if you DO want to quibble, this is how much gold you might plausibly make at a maximum.

    EDIT: There's a quirk with most nests above two where there's a low chance (let's say 10%) to spawn a leviathan, worth 100,000 gold per. Judging by the above numbers, let's say you've pulled 3 leviathans. You can add 150,000 to your hourly total, to get 1.95 million.
  • Those ship journeys were also all mechanically sound and viable utilising an coding oversight... people still got shrubbed for not adhering to the 'to good to be true' rule.
  • edited July 2020
    Armali said:
    Let's say you have six ships and you pulled as soon as your timer was up.

    Assuming perfect rotations (unlikely, sometimes the monsters don't play ball) and no time wastage during killing (very possible if you only have one person per ship to maximize fire rate), in a 10 minute spawn nest that pays out 50,000 per (a typical level 4 nest - there's more than one, Zanzi is just the easiest to get to), you earn 300,000 across the group every 10 minutes, or 1.8 million over an hour.

    I'm assuming there's some hyperbole involved in the news post, and we shouldn't quibble that specific number, but if you DO want to quibble, this is how much gold you might plausibly make at a maximum.

    EDIT: There's a quirk with most nests above two where there's a low chance (let's say 10%) to spawn a leviathan, worth 100,000 gold per. Judging by the above numbers, let's say you've pulled 3 leviathans. You can add 150,000 to your hourly total, to get 1.95 million.
    So, potentially 325000 gold per ship.. do that for long enough you get an extra ship (or just stay stable) let's assume stable of 6 ships and the above math for a few days, though. Let's say you do this for.. 10 hours a day. Harsh judgement, but I've seen people on the sea for longer. 10 hours is 19,500,000 gold. If you did just 5, that's nearly 10 million gold (and also a much more reasonable time frame per day). Sure, split up, it is less.. but you are still just generating and pulling 10 million gold out of thin air for 5 hours of work. Every. Day.

    Even if you did not necessarily do the exact worst.. the fact that you were able to generate as much as you did should have turned a few red flags, and then made you go "If we did this for x amount of time.. it'd generate millions of gold!" I wish I could group hunt for 5 hours and make 1.6 million gold for each member of our group. (which is.. still y'know. MASSIVELY (6~7x) over the gold cap).
  • edited July 2020
    Well shoot 
  • Davok said:
    To be fair, what is a reasonable metric for someone to know something is 'too good to be true'? If a newer player rolled here and really liked ships and Trans'd Seafaring, and never really bashed a lot at the high level, how are they supposed to know they're doing anything wrong if all their friends are taking them on trips to roll up gold?

    Is the gold cap even documented anywhere? If I'm wrong please correct me.

    EDIT: Documented in a help file, I mean.

    May as well put it in a help file somewhere at this point...

    "If you accumulate over 200,000gp in a 24 hour period expect to be turned into a shrub for at least a month, thank you!"
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