So to put a little perspective, with help from Ismay...
She just got offered a 300 year old shop for 2000cr. After some digging, that shop went no higher than 7 figures. Credits valued at 5.5k per.
The shop saved 5.5 million in lease fees. So they spent at max 9.9 million on it. Saved 5.5 million or more... And then tried to resell it for 28 million gold in today's economy.
Not to mention how much they made over the 300 years.
Fuck that lmao. If they get their shop taken, they've already made more than they spent on it, with likely even more it they sell it for 300 to 500cr.
Justifying losing a sizable credit investment because you've made more gold long term on it is asinine. You would never personally be okay with this situation happening to you, you would be all over the place trying to get credits. Just like the rest of us.
So to put a little perspective, with help from Ismay...
She just got offered a 300 year old shop for 2000cr. After some digging, that shop went no higher than 7 figures. Credits valued at 5.5k per.
The shop saved 5.5 million in lease fees. So they spent at max 9.9 million on it. Saved 5.5 million or more... And then tried to resell it for 28 million gold in today's economy.
Not to mention how much they made over the 300 years.
Fuck that lmao. If they get their shop taken, they've already made more than they spent on it, with likely even more it they sell it for 300 to 500cr.
Justifying losing a sizable credit investment because you've made more gold long term on it is asinine. You would never personally be okay with this situation happening to you, you would be all over the place trying to get credits. Just like the rest of us.
He'd be crying like hell, and certainly in a worse mental state than Prythe is.
So to put a little perspective, with help from Ismay...
She just got offered a 300 year old shop for 2000cr. After some digging, that shop went no higher than 7 figures. Credits valued at 5.5k per.
The shop saved 5.5 million in lease fees. So they spent at max 9.9 million on it. Saved 5.5 million or more... And then tried to resell it for 28 million gold in today's economy.
Not to mention how much they made over the 300 years.
Fuck that lmao. If they get their shop taken, they've already made more than they spent on it, with likely even more it they sell it for 300 to 500cr.
You are looking at this singular instance in a vacuum. In Prythe’s very specific instance, she made back her investment, but now people who have shops in cities, no matter how long or recently purchased, have a much higher risk investment. The value of their shop has basically plummeted, previously people accepted risk of buying in cities, these situations happened so rarely/usually done from party B acting directly in opposition to their terms as allowing to own a shop in said city.
What if Prythe had sold the shop to a rogue or eleusian for 2k credits, but in 10 ic years time this instance happened? We’d be right here, except behind someone who definitely endured a torrential investment loss. 2k is a lot to pay for a shop, absolute agree, but now potentially city shops are going to sink in value, and only further still. Is this the city’s problem? Nope, but players who suddenly have to wear a severe drop in their investment value, and players won’t need to buy as many cr from ire to buy shops.
This basically makes city shops too immense of a risk, while delos shops now will rise in value. Is that fair? That comes down to your view on the ethics of the situation, however, this will make people less inclined to bother with shops in Targ, and overall hurt the market to buy/use shops in cities in general, making it risky, again, to sell anything but the mass-consumed. Mercantile didn’t need a resounding kick in the teeth, but if people are fine with the situation, I suppose that will determine the outcome in general to this situation.
So to put a little perspective, with help from Ismay...
She just got offered a 300 year old shop for 2000cr. After some digging, that shop went no higher than 7 figures. Credits valued at 5.5k per.
The shop saved 5.5 million in lease fees. So they spent at max 9.9 million on it. Saved 5.5 million or more... And then tried to resell it for 28 million gold in today's economy.
Not to mention how much they made over the 300 years.
Fuck that lmao. If they get their shop taken, they've already made more than they spent on it, with likely even more it they sell it for 300 to 500cr.
Justifying losing a sizable credit investment because you've made more gold long term on it is asinine. You would never personally be okay with this situation happening to you, you would be all over the place trying to get credits. Just like the rest of us.
He'd be crying like hell, and certainly in a worse mental state than Prythe is.
I'm not sure I could even imagine the size of the hissy fit we would see if this were to happen.
Also bringing @Achilles back into the fold from the other thread...
@Prythe I'm asking how much you paid and to who. If it was directly to IRE is different than if Shallam got it 2000cr. I would be telling Sothantos to sell every shop in town for 1000cr if that was a possibility.
It seems like since there was an offer for 1250cr that eventually fell through there is the potential at least for the possibility of selling shops for 1000cr given enough persistence in advertising....
I mean, not anymore after this though...who in their right mind would own a shop in Targossas now?
Fuck that lmao. If they get their shop taken, they've already made more than they spent on it, with likely even more it they sell it for 300 to 500cr.
Why do you continue to think this argument is a good one? This just makes you sound like even more of an asshole than you already do, which I personally didn't think was possible.
At that rate....You've already gotten your money's worth out of all your artifacts...please transfer them to me for free.
But, if you're looking to dictate how it must be because you're scared one day it'll happen to you, then go back to fishing and involving yourself very little in anything of actual consequence.
Holy crap...we all know you are a bitter old man, but this may be the worst shit I've ever read. Basically if you aren't willing to take the risk of losing hundreds of real life dollars then don't even bother playing the game.
It is really disheartening when the nicest and most helpful person in the game gets shrubbed for a month for breaking a rule nobody realized existed but everyone with these shitty attitudes is allowed to run free and spread their shit all over the place, likely turning away countless new players/customers.
Since all this mess, I've personally decided not to buy any more shops unless they are dirt, and I mean DIRT, cheap. There's no way I'm going to risk that much money again, on a damn game too. I'll settle with renting shops in cities with agreeable shopkeeping policies, and be done with it.
Give us -real- shop logs! Not another misinterpretation of features we ask for, turned into something that either doesn't help at all, or doesn't remotely resemble what we wanted to begin with.
Thanks!
Current position of some of the playerbase, instead of expressing a desire to fix problems:
Vhaynna: "Honest question - if you don't like Achaea or the current admin, why do you even bother playing?"
So to put a little perspective, with help from Ismay...
She just got offered a 300 year old shop for 2000cr. After some digging, that shop went no higher than 7 figures. Credits valued at 5.5k per.
The shop saved 5.5 million in lease fees. So they spent at max 9.9 million on it. Saved 5.5 million or more... And then tried to resell it for 28 million gold in today's economy.
Not to mention how much they made over the 300 years.
Fuck that lmao. If they get their shop taken, they've already made more than they spent on it, with likely even more it they sell it for 300 to 500cr.
You are looking at this singular instance in a vacuum. In Prythe’s very specific instance, she made back her investment, but now people who have shops in cities, no matter how long or recently purchased, have a much higher risk investment. The value of their shop has basically plummeted, previously people accepted risk of buying in cities, these situations happened so rarely/usually done from party B acting directly in opposition to their terms as allowing to own a shop in said city.
What if Prythe had sold the shop to a rogue or eleusian for 2k credits, but in 10 ic years time this instance happened? We’d be right here, except behind someone who definitely endured a torrential investment loss. 2k is a lot to pay for a shop, absolute agree, but now potentially city shops are going to sink in value, and only further still. Is this the city’s problem? Nope, but players who suddenly have to wear a severe drop in their investment value, and players won’t need to buy as many cr from ire to buy shops.
This basically makes city shops too immense of a risk, while delos shops now will rise in value. Is that fair? That comes down to your view on the ethics of the situation, however, this will make people less inclined to bother with shops in Targ, and overall hurt the market to buy/use shops in cities in general, making it risky, again, to sell anything but the mass-consumed. Mercantile didn’t need a resounding kick in the teeth, but if people are fine with the situation, I suppose that will determine the outcome in general to this situation.
Except this isn't Prythe's shop I'm talking about.
Wait, why are you talking about Liliana's shop in Hashan? It's like
everyone is talking about Starbucks and there you suddenly start talking about
Costa Coffee.
Probably because Liliana's in a similar situation. As will anybody else who bought a city shop be now the cities are so highly factionalised. I still don't personally see the issue. These seismic shifts tend to take a very long time. Prythe starting to try and sell the shop a few weeks ago, despite the shop being closed for probably over a year before this doesn't convince me that there's a problem.
Probably because Liliana's in a similar situation. As will anybody else who bought a city shop be now the cities are so highly factionalised. I still don't personally see the issue. These seismic shifts tend to take a very long time. Prythe starting to try and sell the shop a few weeks ago, despite the shop being closed for probably over a year before this doesn't convince me that there's a problem.
Removed.
Because Liliana is having both of her shops repod. Ryldagh prolly won't though.
Don't worry, Liliana has 3 shops in Cyrene to keep her company.
I seriously hope all you people stay out of city shops, I'll quite enjoy making my bank nice and fat off of my leases.
And I'm not bitter, nor an old man. I'm actually quite friendly and understanding in game, and in rl. But on this particular subject, I have no issue being a dick to those that believe they are deserving of anything off a outdated contract, or in any aspect that falls under city management.
This might be the most boomer thing I say today, but no one is entitled to shit, regardless of "money spent". She's lucky she got what she got.
would the disclaimer at the bottom of 'HELP (random city)' not be somewhat of an indicator of how things could potentially turn out? I don't think that Prythe should be short changed the way she has, but that's from an OOC perspective. ICly, my character would be all about repossession of whatever was in there, for the greater 'Good' or whatever. I've always had it in my mind that tying yourself to an organization in any way, shape, or form could potentially screw you over in the future.
I'll be honest. Tia spent 13 something million on her Delosian shop. She's definitely made her money back once or even twice or three times over. As @Skye said, you have to have certain materials to make actual money, within your shop.
Neutral shop locations should be a thing.
Not sure how you'd alter factionalized shops though.
The Divine voice of Twilight echoes in your head, "See that it is. I espy a tithe of potential in your mortal soul, Astarod Blackstone. Let us hope that it flourishes and does not falter as so many do."
Aegis, God of War says, "You are dismissed from My demense, Astarod. Go forth and fight well. Bleed fiercely, and climb the purpose you have sought to chase for."
So to put a little perspective, with help from Ismay...
She just got offered a 300 year old shop for 2000cr. After some digging, that shop went no higher than 7 figures. Credits valued at 5.5k per.
The shop saved 5.5 million in lease fees. So they spent at max 9.9 million on it. Saved 5.5 million or more... And then tried to resell it for 28 million gold in today's economy.
Not to mention how much they made over the 300 years.
Fuck that lmao. If they get their shop taken, they've already made more than they spent on it, with likely even more it they sell it for 300 to 500cr.
Justifying losing a sizable credit investment because you've made more gold long term on it is asinine. You would never personally be okay with this situation happening to you, you would be all over the place trying to get credits. Just like the rest of us.
Not to mention the failure to take things like inflation into account. It is only worth 28,000,000gp because of the credit market inflation. Theoretically, buying power of that 28,000,000 is the same as the original 11,000,000gp in credits so...
And it isn't all profit, there is overhead, taxes, etc to take into account for the gold that WAS generated by the shop.
Targossas's city shops earn 10k per Achaean year from leasing. Paying back 2000cr would mean that we wouldn't make that gold back for 2800 years.
That people are willing to vastly overvalue city shops is not at all our problem. For reference, the second highest offer made on that shop was 500k.
What a disingenuous post.
Nobody asked Targossas to pay 2000 credits.
The *agreement* with Targossas was that its Chancellor would effect the sale of the shop on Prythe's behalf (so that there would be no issues relating to the acceptance of the purchaser) and pay that sum over to Prythe. No out of pocket to Targossas - in fact, Prythe even offered to pay a commission on the sale.
Win win win for everybody.
Instead....
- To love another person is to see the face of G/d - Let me get my hat and my knife - It's your apple, take a bite - Don't dream it ... be it
It'd be nice if there were more ways to sell items.
Maybe player housing could have limited shops or something added.
And there could be specialty markets that let people sell designed items like a clothing/jewellery store, a food/beverage market, and I guess furniture and art dealers.
Also they could bring that one marketplace that's on Meropis where nobody uses it to Sapience.
This might be the most boomer thing I say today, but no one is entitled to shit, regardless of "money spent". She's lucky she got what she got.
Enjoy your day. I've gotta beach to go rest on.
Lawl, you heard it first here, folks. Might as well ball up your money and chuck it at the screen, you're not entitled to get anything for it anyways.
Give us -real- shop logs! Not another misinterpretation of features we ask for, turned into something that either doesn't help at all, or doesn't remotely resemble what we wanted to begin with.
Thanks!
Current position of some of the playerbase, instead of expressing a desire to fix problems:
Vhaynna: "Honest question - if you don't like Achaea or the current admin, why do you even bother playing?"
Since we're all sharing opinions here and I'm back on forums for more lulz.
I've never understood the appeal of gambling on buying a shop in another City. That being said, from what I've gathered on the situation, Targossas sounds in the wrong here... From an OOC standpoint. But based on how Targ consistently carries itself, it all sounds "reasonable" based on how they do things IC. A LOT of people in Targossas are "assholes." This is because they maintain that IC demeanor that fits them. Targ is where assholes go to truly be their best self and it works because that's basically the way their RP is designed. "If you ain't good, fuck you, ya spouse, ya dog, ya mama, ya auntie, ya kids, ya grandkids, ya City, ya God, etc. Either join us or go eat an entire bowl of dicks." I've never seen as much leeway interacting IC with someone from Targ as I have from a Mhaldorian or Ashtani (from an outside perspective,) they take care of their own and that's where they draw the very fine line in the sand.
Basically: From an OOC perspective it's super shitty and horrible. Prythe is taking it like a champ, I would be fuckin livid to the point I'd be perma-shrubbed by now for calling people horrible names and being petty and shit. IC I mean... it's still super shitty and horrible but it sounds perfectly in line with how Targ runs things.
It's fine to move from a system where shops are treated as investments and people own shops across different cities to a system where most cities retain ownership and just lease them out instead. I think that makes a lot more sense. Less risk for everybody involved.
However, seizing shops in order to do it is just shitty. Cities are getting credits hand over fist now that they get a share of promos bought. It would be no hardship at all for Targossas to buy the shops from Prythe and Liliana for something like 750 or 1000 credits. That's less than open market value but at least approaching their value.
Yeah the deal that Sothantos wanted people to 'find out in game' was that he was holding it over their heads to get Cyrene to drop the ban. This thread is full of details about what's going on in game. Pretty sure he just omitted this deal because it makes them look even shittier, not only to take somebody's property but to do it in order to try to get their city to change a policy. Super dick move on Targossas' part here.
It may be justified by RP, but so are a lot of really shitty things like rezz killing and hunting newbies. I can't believe there are people on this thread actually thinking that taking a shop somebody else owns for a tiny smidge of its value is actually ok.
It'd be nice if there were more ways to sell items.
Maybe player housing could have limited shops or something added.
And there could be specialty markets that let people sell designed items like a clothing/jewellery store, a food/beverage market, and I guess furniture and art dealers.
Also they could bring that one marketplace that's on Meropis where nobody uses it to Sapience.
The admin will likely see this and say "carts" because that is kind of what they're for. Some mods to carts where they don't decay until the lease/upkeep goes unpaid might not be a bad middle ground.
Lawl, you heard it first here, folks. Might as well ball up your money and chuck it at the screen, you're not entitled to get anything for it anyways.
I have found this to be the most effective use of my money qhen it comes to paying for Achaea lately. Numerous deletions of arties and nerfs to others - more than one that cost 1000-2000cr and such... that, combined with loot boxes within loot boxes that require RNG to get what you want and I'm pretty wary about "investing" in the game.
Comments
He'd be crying like hell, and certainly in a worse mental state than Prythe is.
What if Prythe had sold the shop to a rogue or eleusian for 2k credits, but in 10 ic years time this instance happened? We’d be right here, except behind someone who definitely endured a torrential investment loss. 2k is a lot to pay for a shop, absolute agree, but now potentially city shops are going to sink in value, and only further still. Is this the city’s problem? Nope, but players who suddenly have to wear a severe drop in their investment value, and players won’t need to buy as many cr from ire to buy shops.
This basically makes city shops too immense of a risk, while delos shops now will rise in value. Is that fair? That comes down to your view on the ethics of the situation, however, this will make people less inclined to bother with shops in Targ, and overall hurt the market to buy/use shops in cities in general, making it risky, again, to sell anything but the mass-consumed. Mercantile didn’t need a resounding kick in the teeth, but if people are fine with the situation, I suppose that will determine the outcome in general to this situation.
Also bringing @Achilles back into the fold from the other thread...
It seems like since there was an offer for 1250cr that eventually fell through there is the potential at least for the possibility of selling shops for 1000cr given enough persistence in advertising....
I mean, not anymore after this though...who in their right mind would own a shop in Targossas now?
...lol
@Minifie, this is like the third or fourth serious post I've seen from you in a row....are...are you okay?
Baha, nevermind...you got a troll post in before I could hit submit Welcome back!!
This is Liliana's shop. In Hashan.
Don't worry, Liliana has 3 shops in Cyrene to keep her company.
And I'm not bitter, nor an old man. I'm actually quite friendly and understanding in game, and in rl. But on this particular subject, I have no issue being a dick to those that believe they are deserving of anything off a outdated contract, or in any aspect that falls under city management.
This might be the most boomer thing I say today, but no one is entitled to shit, regardless of "money spent". She's lucky she got what she got.
Enjoy your day.
I've gotta beach to go rest on.
That's fine, just admit it though, I'm also a jerk. Would you like me to be a jerk to your dick?
Or is that only the discord these days?
It's also not a dick to fight for city rights, to maintain thier right to reposses and claim that any location in any city is subject to such.
After all, next thing we know we'll have people crying about how they own thier house hall, because it got free credits from the money they spent.
Enjoy your day at the beach, and remember social distancing: Stay at least 300 feet away from your fellows!
Neutral shop locations should be a thing.
Not sure how you'd alter factionalized shops though.
Aegis, God of War says, "You are dismissed from My demense, Astarod. Go forth and fight well. Bleed fiercely, and climb the purpose you have sought to chase for."
Not to mention the failure to take things like inflation into account. It is only worth 28,000,000gp because of the credit market inflation. Theoretically, buying power of that 28,000,000 is the same as the original 11,000,000gp in credits so...
And it isn't all profit, there is overhead, taxes, etc to take into account for the gold that WAS generated by the shop.
What a disingenuous post.
Nobody asked Targossas to pay 2000 credits.
The *agreement* with Targossas was that its Chancellor would effect the sale of the shop on Prythe's behalf (so that there would be no issues relating to the acceptance of the purchaser) and pay that sum over to Prythe. No out of pocket to Targossas - in fact, Prythe even offered to pay a commission on the sale.
Win win win for everybody.
Instead....
- To love another person is to see the face of G/d
- Let me get my hat and my knife
- It's your apple, take a bite
- Don't dream it ... be it
Maybe player housing could have limited shops or something added.
And there could be specialty markets that let people sell designed items like a clothing/jewellery store, a food/beverage market, and I guess furniture and art dealers.
Also they could bring that one marketplace that's on Meropis where nobody uses it to Sapience.
Ahh well, geez...why didn't you say so earlier....all good then!
Lawl, you heard it first here, folks. Might as well ball up your money and chuck it at the screen, you're not entitled to get anything for it anyways.
I've never understood the appeal of gambling on buying a shop in another City. That being said, from what I've gathered on the situation, Targossas sounds in the wrong here...
From an OOC standpoint.
But based on how Targ consistently carries itself, it all sounds "reasonable" based on how they do things IC. A LOT of people in Targossas are "assholes." This is because they maintain that IC demeanor that fits them. Targ is where assholes go to truly be their best self and it works because that's basically the way their RP is designed. "If you ain't good, fuck you, ya spouse, ya dog, ya mama, ya auntie, ya kids, ya grandkids, ya City, ya God, etc. Either join us or go eat an entire bowl of dicks." I've never seen as much leeway interacting IC with someone from Targ as I have from a Mhaldorian or Ashtani (from an outside perspective,) they take care of their own and that's where they draw the very fine line in the sand.
Basically:
From an OOC perspective it's super shitty and horrible. Prythe is taking it like a champ, I would be fuckin livid to the point I'd be perma-shrubbed by now for calling people horrible names and being petty and shit. IC I mean... it's still super shitty and horrible but it sounds perfectly in line with how Targ runs things.
[insert Thaisen's perfect sarcastic wit here.]
- To love another person is to see the face of G/d
- Let me get my hat and my knife
- It's your apple, take a bite
- Don't dream it ... be it
However, seizing shops in order to do it is just shitty. Cities are getting credits hand over fist now that they get a share of promos bought. It would be no hardship at all for Targossas to buy the shops from Prythe and Liliana for something like 750 or 1000 credits. That's less than open market value but at least approaching their value.
Yeah the deal that Sothantos wanted people to 'find out in game' was that he was holding it over their heads to get Cyrene to drop the ban. This thread is full of details about what's going on in game. Pretty sure he just omitted this deal because it makes them look even shittier, not only to take somebody's property but to do it in order to try to get their city to change a policy. Super dick move on Targossas' part here.
It may be justified by RP, but so are a lot of really shitty things like rezz killing and hunting newbies. I can't believe there are people on this thread actually thinking that taking a shop somebody else owns for a tiny smidge of its value is actually ok.
Ismay said:
I have found this to be the most effective use of my money qhen it comes to paying for Achaea lately. Numerous deletions of arties and nerfs to others - more than one that cost 1000-2000cr and such... that, combined with loot boxes within loot boxes that require RNG to get what you want and I'm pretty wary about "investing" in the game.