1. Love, when capitalised like that, refers to Lady Selene's tenets when talking about in-game stuff. Those do not correlate with Eleusis' ideals whatsoever.
2. You absolutely have. Don't deflect.
3. Of course you do, you don't wanna do anything except apparently say NATURE Gods are wrong about what's best for NATURE. Then scream that you know better than they do.
4. Players cause infighting between players. Divine don't, nor have they ever in Eleusis.
5. Your very biased point of view, that doesn't actually have any truth in it. Yes.
Nothing I've said has been dishonest. Sorry if I hurt your feelings.
1. Ok, then I'll explicitly state: When I used the word Love above, I meant: "An intense feeling of deep affection." 2. I dont' even know the people. Unlike most, the forums are just about the only contact I have with other players, be they divine or not. So ... again, you're choice. 3. Please, re-read my OG post. Mistake, does not mean Wrong. Also ... please point out to me where I was saying that I know better than they do. 4. Again, my experience, I say it as I experienced it. Nothing more, nothing less. 5. And again, as I experienced it! At no point did I make any statement to indicate anything else.
I don't know what was happening in the background, other than these forums and exactly two discord connections, I do not have contact with people outside the game. I prefer it that way, because the line between OOC and IC gets crossed to damn often around here.
Where I come from, the phrase "honest conversation" means: to have a conversation free of insults, cursing or derogatory statements.
Contrary to popular belief, English is NOT, my first language. So yea ... expect to see miss-spelled words, phrases that might need clarification, and idioms that you've never encountered before. So again, I ask: Kindly re-read my posts. I do not mean the things you are reading into them. If you find that something I've written pisses you off, please allow me the opportunity to clarify it.
I like how almost every legitimate question devolves nearly immediately into a dogpile/pissing match.
I'm just so angry over a text city I rage quit that I have to tell everyone still in it how wrong they are.
didn't you quit eleusis?
On topic: it is very obvious that Eleusis is fading away. Anyone that's actually cognizant and paying attention can see that. They've lost every combatant except Rangor (penwize, romkimen, jhui, etc.), they've lost about 90% of their big RPers (ellodin, alrena, yae, just to name a few), and Eleusis has not had an actual effect on the world around them in years. The last actual nature-related event was vivifying being put in, and that was initiated and largely carried by Mhaldor, the literal enemies of Eleusis. That was also YEARS ago now.
It is not a good sign that people avoid nature divines. It is not because 'Eleusis is just fine as it is.' Opossums and raccoons like living in trash cans, but that doesn't mean trash cans are actually a good source of housing. Similarly, your personal opinion on how much you like Eleusis doesn't trump reality.
It is people's attitudes that have led to this. The attitude that drives away divine is also what drives away dedicated roleplayers and combatants both. What is the point of an Achaean city that has no significant roleplay or combat presence? It's just a chat room at that point. Cyrene is a pacifist city, but it draws a large number of active roleplayers even if some people do use it as a chat room. To really emphasize what a mess Eleusis is in, Cyrene actually draws more combatants, too!
The game gets plenty of newbie interest. If the newbie channel activity is any indication they are somewhat evenly spread between the cities. Perhaps Mhaldor and Hashan get fewer, Cyrene a bit more, Eleusis newbie interest looks close to the levels that Targ and Ashtan are seeing.
If we could improve retention of these new people we could revitalize cities and maintain follower populations for plenty of gods. To me the things that look to cause new people to drop are gameplay frustrations, the bash grind, and the monetization. We older players can do a lot to mitigate frustrations by being more helpful and reduce the grind by grouping with the young more often. We could probably even increase the inflow of newbies by being more vocal about the game elsewhere across the web (besides pastebin).
My point is that we can do something about getting more active orders by being better to our new people.
I didn't want to get into this, because I don't want to even say slightly negative things about an org I enjoy so much, but we don't even have an MoC. We also have no HR in the Kin, which is a big part of Eleusian culture, and we can barely manage raids and defense. We seem to be slowly dying in every area. Players just putter around doing little daily things, and few have the inspiration to do special Eleusian things, like sermons or rituals, or ANYTHING really.
But, but...
2019/06/07 17:20:36 - Miriew has sanctioned a raid against The City of Hashan.
2019/06/07 17:21:56 - Rangor has retrieved a tank from your city's reserves. 2019/06/07 17:45:12 - Caelan, Deziny, Dilek, Garros, Miriew, Myna, Peknor, Rangor, and Waayen have destroyed The ruins of a vaulted hall.
It isn't as awesomely slick and douchy as killing on login, lusting into city totems, or 6v1 ganking but we're getting there!
Maybe it's a House thing, because the Scions are doing fantastic right now. The only reason we have a Divine is because we made a point to do this kind of stuff and put in a lot of work in the other areas. We are building the House culture to be deeper, have been working on stronger espirit de corps, and to get full membership you have to promote the ideals to the world with the number one method being a sermon/ritual. We also have people like @Torrent who do amazing rituals and sermons and is humble enough to say they aren't.. I do little hip-pocket things for Glory and the like, promoting the ideals of Nature. If I am logged in for it, I make sure the whole House is there, but can't make the village attend. Maybe it's just the group that is usually around when you are? I hate to see you down on it because you're always so upbeat.
I think @Andraste should start mandating every novice task be attended by all those on main plane just to help build more of that sense of community within Eleusis and support the younger ones. It may not be immediate, but it will build upon itself over time. (Edit: Also, I don't like Eleusis being considered as a monolith so I had to differentiate)
I didn't want to get into this, because I don't want to even say slightly negative things about an org I enjoy so much, but we don't even have an MoC. We also have no HR in the Kin, which is a big part of Eleusian culture, and we can barely manage raids and defense. We seem to be slowly dying in every area. Players just putter around doing little daily things, and few have the inspiration to do special Eleusian things, like sermons or rituals, or ANYTHING really.
But, but...
2019/06/07 17:20:36 - Miriew has sanctioned a raid against The City of Hashan.
2019/06/07 17:21:56 - Rangor has retrieved a tank from your city's reserves. 2019/06/07 17:45:12 - Caelan, Deziny, Dilek, Garros, Miriew, Myna, Peknor, Rangor, and Waayen have destroyed The ruins of a vaulted hall.
2019/06/07 17:56:13 - Krizal > Defenders were Argwin, Lenn, Marcella, and myself.
I think you're just further highlighting an issue here. It isnt about getting a sanction or winning a tank with crazy odds that defines health, it is about the drive of an org. Much of the conflict of late for Eleusis has been put in a bad light from the support it needs to get something done. It feels far less from Eleusis seeking to accomplish something, and just more of them being pushed by others.
In the example you gave, it was clear that Hashani defending would not win that...but they engaged. Why? Because it's just a tank and per the RP of the city which they embrace, then hell yes they'll remove the incursion of savages.
Do you see where i'm coming from here? Eleusis lacks that binding RP goal for a drive to 'do'.
Edit: Not attempting to shoot down any excitement, but you need to realize the issue isnt getting tanks blown. If you're focusing on that, then you're missing the point.
I don't think he was yaying about a blown tank, I think he was yaying about a group of people being active and working together to achieve a goal within the current standing of the city (being at war). Edit: and showing Cailin that people are still trying to address one of the points she/he made.
Go Eleusis, get those group projects done! Don't let the few group member who stand around with their thumb up their noses get you down.
2019/06/07 17:56:13 - Krizal > Defenders were Argwin, Lenn, Marcella, and myself.
I think you're just further highlighting an issue here. It isnt about getting a sanction or winning a tank with crazy odds that defines health, it is about the drive of an org. Much of the conflict of late for Eleusis has been put in a bad light from the support it needs to get something done. It feels far less from Eleusis seeking to accomplish something, and just more of them being pushed by others.
In the example you gave, it was clear that Hashani defending would not win that...but they engaged. Why? Because it's just a tank and per the RP of the city which they embrace, then hell yes they'll remove the incursion of savages.
Do you see where i'm coming from here? Eleusis lacks that binding RP goal for a drive to 'do'.
Edit: Not attempting to shoot down any excitement, but you need to realize the issue isnt getting tanks blown. If you're focusing on that, then you're missing the point.
I logged in and saw Miriew in killing people with Myna. I asked if he wanted a tank at about the exact time Rangor grabbed one. He and I moved in on even odds. Then Krizal started moving guards so the Scions asked to join. I told them it was up to them. They piled in. It was all RP to back their fellow villagers. That isn't 'lacking the drive to do'. I was tempted to turn them away but then remembered the 6v1 gank and lusting onto city totems a mere 24 hours earlier... so I said nah, Hashan more than earned this little smack.
Even with your edit your post comes across like a backhanded compliment about how amazing Hashan's RP is compared to Elesuis so "with all due respect...." you have no idea what the fuck you're talking about and made far too many assumptions about the drive and motivations of others based off something as simple as a lognote to counter a singular point made by Cailin about not raiding and stuff. You are the one who actually missed the point. There are Eleusians doing things to make it better.
Self edit: I have removed the rest of this because it will likely hurt feelings. The gyst was, I dont really give a shit what your opinion of Eleusis is (or literally anything in the universe) because you are consistently wrong and make too many assumptions. Also.. I swear alot. Get over it. It is how I talk.
2019/06/07 17:56:13 - Krizal > Defenders were Argwin, Lenn, Marcella, and myself.
I think you're just further highlighting an issue here. It isnt about getting a sanction or winning a tank with crazy odds that defines health, it is about the drive of an org. Much of the conflict of late for Eleusis has been put in a bad light from the support it needs to get something done. It feels far less from Eleusis seeking to accomplish something, and just more of them being pushed by others.
In the example you gave, it was clear that Hashani defending would not win that...but they engaged. Why? Because it's just a tank and per the RP of the city which they embrace, then hell yes they'll remove the incursion of savages.
Do you see where i'm coming from here? Eleusis lacks that binding RP goal for a drive to 'do'.
Edit: Not attempting to shoot down any excitement, but you need to realize the issue isnt getting tanks blown. If you're focusing on that, then you're missing the point.
I logged in and saw Miriew in killing people with Myna. I asked if he wanted a tank at about the exact time Rangor grabbed one. He and I moved in on even odds. Then Krizal started moving guards so the Scions asked to join. I told them it was up to them. They piled in. It was all RP to back their fellow villagers. That isn't 'lacking the drive to do'. I was tempted to turn them away but then remembered the 6v1 gank and lusting onto city totems a mere 24 hours earlier... so I said nah, Hashan more than earned this little smack.
Even with your edit your post comes across like a backhanded compliment about how amazing Hashan's RP is compared to Elesuis so "with all due respect...." you have no idea what the fuck you're talking about and made far too many assumptions about the drive and motivations of others based off something as simple as a lognote to counter a singular point made by Cailin about not raiding and stuff. You are the one who actually missed the point. There are Eleusians doing things to make it better.
Self edit: I have removed the rest of this because it will likely hurt feelings. The gyst was, I dont really give a shit what your opinion of Eleusis is (or literally anything in the universe) because you are consistently wrong and make too many assumptions. Also.. I swear alot. Get over it. It is how I talk.
?? The Ashtani and Eleusians were already in the city with a tank when I logged in. I also have no idea how you turn Myna+Miriew+Rangor+yourself vs Argwin+Marcella+Lenn = even odds, even numerically. :shrug:
Hmm, Eleusis is the city I know the least about. Objectively I see a lot of potential for non-com conflict/plot-pushing RP though. The Scions hosted a ritual a while back that like a dozen people from multiple cities attended, which was very exciting from my perspective. So many people from multiple factions showing up just to see what Eleusis has going on? That was my first time attending an "open to the public" player-driven event -- and it was hosted by Eleusians.
I guess what I'm trying to get at is that even without an active Divine, it's totally possible to push "big" RP. It's harder. Disagreements don't resolve cleanly and people don't focus. But it's possible.
If I were someone about to pick a Divine role to take on, I would look at Eleusis with their current efforts, think about how little I know of the history of the city, and think "I'd rather wait until they have a solid ethos I can pin down to support and develop." A God can't do much with domestic life RP, there has to be movement.
People giving weight to anything Asmodron says... smh
have a chicken wing instead
Kinda my point. I saw what he did with Hashan as leader so even leadership advice is .. bring me a wing yo.
@Krizal when I tracked in you were there. So... numerically, 4 = 4 is not that hard to establish. The fact that until I have time to fix my curing I am a paper tiger means even with 3 v 3+ me.. pretty even. I mean, I died to being lusted FFS.
Hmm, Eleusis is the city I know the least about. Objectively I see a lot of potential for non-com conflict/plot-pushing RP though. The Scions hosted a ritual a while back that like a dozen people from multiple cities attended, which was very exciting from my perspective. So many people from multiple factions showing up just to see what Eleusis has going on? That was my first time attending an "open to the public" player-driven event -- and it was hosted by Eleusians.
I guess what I'm trying to get at is that even without an active Divine, it's totally possible to push "big" RP. It's harder. Disagreements don't resolve cleanly and people don't focus. But it's possible.
If I were someone about to pick a Divine role to take on, I would look at Eleusis with their current efforts, think about how little I know of the history of the city, and think "I'd rather wait until they have a solid ethos I can pin down to support and develop." A God can't do much with domestic life RP, there has to be movement.
Yeah? That is pretty awesome to know your first event was one of us explaining our ideals in some way. It is one reason the Scion "newbies" are required to have their final task open to the public before becoming a full member.
Also, you're pretty spot on with the "domestic" comment. But I would say another aspect is that Gaia was one of the original 3 or 4 Divine when the game started. So there is 20 years of history that person needs to be familiar with. Some good, some bad. But that definitely explains why they just splinter her even more so the new admin can have a fresh page. But she has been split like 5 or 6 times over the years. I would love to see someone willing and able to take on the Herculean task of knowing the history, killing all the other splinters off, and just forming a real Gaia.
I keep telling myself I won't derail this post, but seeing as how it's already well derailed...
Thanks for the encouragement, @Caelan and @Iloisee. I think it probably DOES have a lot to do with the time of day I log in. Things are always really quiet in the US morning, seems like even the people who are logged in aren't very talkative. I didn't even know the Scion ritual happened. Although, we still don't have an MoC or HR, someone halp!
I'm glad to hear the Scion house is doing really well. I've sometimes considered switching to that house to get more into oration/nature theology, along with ritualism.
I keep telling myself I won't derail this post, but seeing as how it's already well derailed...
Thanks for the encouragement, @Caelan and @Iloisee. I think it probably DOES have a lot to do with the time of day I log in. Things are always really quiet in the US morning, seems like even the people who are logged in aren't very talkative. I didn't even know the Scion ritual happened. Although, we still don't have an MoC or HR, someone halp!
I'm glad to hear the Scion house is doing really well. I've sometimes considered switching to that house to get more into oration/nature theology, along with ritualism.
Yeah I'm totally encouraging the derailment since it came up. 😁 I don't know anything about your current House, but think of it this way... Caelan and the other Scions can guide you even if you're not a Scion. I'm sure they would love to have you, and if you want to, you should go! But active, engaged players are the only way to rejuvenate the Kin. Respect your own limits, but consider that your energy and zeal could be exactly what the House needs. Chase a leadership role, maybe!
If the Kin is stagnating, they need to analyze their policies and procedures and cut out what's not working. Build on what is. The Scions and the Kin are fighting for the same village -- encourage collaboration. Establish the Kin's focus and role in the village. An active, moving House will attract a Patron. Two active, collaborating Houses will attract a city Patron.
I don't believe Eleusis is without a Divine because of its history exclusively. I think would-be Divines don't know what they'd do with Eleusis -and- don't want a repeat of this infamous Gaia/Artemis situation.
@Krizal when I tracked in you were there. So... numerically, 4 = 4 is not that hard to establish. The fact that until I have time to fix my curing I am a paper tiger means even with 3 v 3+ me.. pretty even. I mean, I died to being lusted FFS.
@Caelan not that it really matters, but when I logged in this is what preeminence looked like.
You cast your will out across the land, surveying all that stand within shadow's embrace.
You sense Rangor at A vaulted hall.
You sense Garros at A vaulted hall.
You sense Myna at A vaulted hall.
You sense Miriew at A vaulted hall.
You sense Astarod at A vaulted hall.
You sense Marcella at The Crossroads.
You sense Caelan at A vaulted hall.
You sense Argwin at Parade of the Founders, north of Founders' Monument.
I've sometimes considered switching to that house to get more into oration/nature theology, along with ritualism.
I don't want to be all poachy but.. if you can handle blood and gore within Nature.. we would love to have someone to devote to it. You just gotta defens and offend with us :-)
@Krizal when I tracked in you were there. So... numerically, 4 = 4 is not that hard to establish. The fact that until I have time to fix my curing I am a paper tiger means even with 3 v 3+ me.. pretty even. I mean, I died to being lusted FFS.
@Caelan not that it really matters, but when I logged in this is what preeminence looked like.
You cast your will out across the land, surveying all that stand within shadow's embrace.
You sense Rangor at A vaulted hall.
You sense Garros at A vaulted hall.
You sense Myna at A vaulted hall.
You sense Miriew at A vaulted hall.
You sense Astarod at A vaulted hall.
You sense Marcella at The Crossroads.
You sense Caelan at A vaulted hall.
You sense Argwin at Parade of the Founders, north of Founders' Monument.
You located 8 subjects.
Had to be just as I tracked in and landed (before I did Fullsense) then. Good timing. But yeah not that it matters. You guys did pretty good for a minute there. Not slamming you guys at all.
Also, you're pretty spot on with the "domestic" comment. But I would say another aspect is that Gaia was one of the original 3 or 4 Divine when the game started. So there is 20 years of history that person needs to be familiar with. Some good, some bad. But that definitely explains why they just splinter her even more so the new admin can have a fresh page. But she has been split like 5 or 6 times over the years. I would love to see someone willing and able to take on the Herculean task of knowing the history, killing all the other splinters off, and just forming a real Gaia.
Someone took up the role and realm of Neraeos, which was arguably more work with all the history involving the tritons, sea factions, temples, ships, monsters, etc. I don't think it would be near as much effort for Gaia (though there is considerable research to be done).
I still think the main issue would be the community, barring the Scions and few who supported the Gaia/Artemis push for an improved and streamlined forest faction.
Comments
2. I dont' even know the people. Unlike most, the forums are just about the only contact I have with other players, be they divine or not. So ... again, you're choice.
3. Please, re-read my OG post. Mistake, does not mean Wrong. Also ... please point out to me where I was saying that I know better than they do.
4. Again, my experience, I say it as I experienced it. Nothing more, nothing less.
5. And again, as I experienced it! At no point did I make any statement to indicate anything else.
I don't know what was happening in the background, other than these forums and exactly two discord connections, I do not have contact with people outside the game.
I prefer it that way, because the line between OOC and IC gets crossed to damn often around here.
Where I come from, the phrase "honest conversation" means: to have a conversation free of insults, cursing or derogatory statements.
Contrary to popular belief, English is NOT, my first language. So yea ... expect to see miss-spelled words, phrases that might need clarification, and idioms that you've never encountered before. So again, I ask: Kindly re-read my posts. I do not mean the things you are reading into them. If you find that something I've written pisses you off, please allow me the opportunity to clarify it.
(ᵖˡᵉᵃˢᵉ ᵈᵒⁿ'ᵗ ˢᵐᶦᵗᵉ ᵐᵉ)
So far, I like Hashan. I think it suits Lenn.
If we could improve retention of these new people we could revitalize cities and maintain follower populations for plenty of gods. To me the things that look to cause new people to drop are gameplay frustrations, the bash grind, and the monetization. We older players can do a lot to mitigate frustrations by being more helpful and reduce the grind by grouping with the young more often. We could probably even increase the inflow of newbies by being more vocal about the game elsewhere across the web (besides pastebin).
My point is that we can do something about getting more active orders by being better to our new people.
The soul of Ashmond says, "Always with the sniping."
(Clan): Ictinus says, "Stop it Jiraishin, you're making me like you."
I have it logged, with timestamps.
2019/06/07 17:45:12 - Caelan, Deziny, Dilek, Garros, Miriew, Myna, Peknor, Rangor, and Waayen have destroyed The ruins of a vaulted hall.
Go Eleusis, get those group projects done! Don't let the few group member who stand around with their thumb up their noses get you down.
Ok we get it! Eleusis bad, Eleusis sucks, and so on and so forth. Stay on topic people!
Even with your edit your post comes across like a backhanded compliment about how amazing Hashan's RP is compared to Elesuis so "with all due respect...." you have no idea what the fuck you're talking about and made far too many assumptions about the drive and motivations of others based off something as simple as a lognote to counter a singular point made by Cailin about not raiding and stuff. You are the one who actually missed the point. There are Eleusians doing things to make it better.
Self edit: I have removed the rest of this because it will likely hurt feelings. The gyst was, I dont really give a shit what your opinion of Eleusis is (or literally anything in the universe) because you are consistently wrong and make too many assumptions. Also.. I swear alot. Get over it. It is how I talk.
have a chicken wing instead
The Ashtani and Eleusians were already in the city with a tank when I logged in. I also have no idea how you turn Myna+Miriew+Rangor+yourself vs Argwin+Marcella+Lenn = even odds, even numerically. :shrug:
I guess what I'm trying to get at is that even without an active Divine, it's totally possible to push "big" RP. It's harder. Disagreements don't resolve cleanly and people don't focus. But it's possible.
If I were someone about to pick a Divine role to take on, I would look at Eleusis with their current efforts, think about how little I know of the history of the city, and think "I'd rather wait until they have a solid ethos I can pin down to support and develop." A God can't do much with domestic life RP, there has to be movement.
@Krizal when I tracked in you were there. So... numerically, 4 = 4 is not that hard to establish. The fact that until I have time to fix my curing I am a paper tiger means even with 3 v 3+ me.. pretty even. I mean, I died to being lusted FFS.
Yeah? That is pretty awesome to know your first event was one of us explaining our ideals in some way. It is one reason the Scion "newbies" are required to have their final task open to the public before becoming a full member.
Also, you're pretty spot on with the "domestic" comment. But I would say another aspect is that Gaia was one of the original 3 or 4 Divine when the game started. So there is 20 years of history that person needs to be familiar with. Some good, some bad. But that definitely explains why they just splinter her even more so the new admin can have a fresh page. But she has been split like 5 or 6 times over the years. I would love to see someone willing and able to take on the Herculean task of knowing the history, killing all the other splinters off, and just forming a real Gaia.
Thanks for the encouragement, @Caelan and @Iloisee. I think it probably DOES have a lot to do with the time of day I log in. Things are always really quiet in the US morning, seems like even the people who are logged in aren't very talkative. I didn't even know the Scion ritual happened. Although, we still don't have an MoC or HR, someone halp!
I'm glad to hear the Scion house is doing really well. I've sometimes considered switching to that house to get more into oration/nature theology, along with ritualism.
If the Kin is stagnating, they need to analyze their policies and procedures and cut out what's not working. Build on what is. The Scions and the Kin are fighting for the same village -- encourage collaboration. Establish the Kin's focus and role in the village. An active, moving House will attract a Patron. Two active, collaborating Houses will attract a city Patron.
I don't believe Eleusis is without a Divine because of its history exclusively. I think would-be Divines don't know what they'd do with Eleusis -and- don't want a repeat of this infamous Gaia/Artemis situation.
I still think the main issue would be the community, barring the Scions and few who supported the Gaia/Artemis push for an improved and streamlined forest faction.