New race art - Horkval Bard

Tahquil

I.... I don't know if they are boots or her feet.

Vayne

Awesome art, should give a boost to the least played class/race?

Katia

I'm pretty sure Katia designed those shoes... I'm pretty sure they are in my nds list!

Sigge

This is awesome, and I don't care about whether a Horkval/Xorani/Grook should have boobs or hair (those are awesome too though). Gotta say I really do love all this new art and am really looking forwards to what comes next!

I hope when they get to Rajamalan's they make two of em, to show there ARE different species as spoken of in the Help Scroll. Being "Tiger-like" all the time is annoying...

Sarapis

Sigge said:

This is awesome, and I don't care about whether a Horkval/Xorani/Grook should have boobs or hair (those are awesome too though). Gotta say I really do love all this new art and am really looking forwards to what comes next!

I hope when they get to Rajamalan's they make two of em, to show there ARE different species as spoken of in the Help Scroll. Being "Tiger-like" all the time is annoying...

So, like "tabby" and "calico"?

Sarapis

:-\"

Tagg

No.

Fluffy and Tard.

Wysteria

Maybe in her bloodline there's a bit of human in her, hence the boobage?

Either way, it's brilliant work.

Blujixapug

I really like this picture. Is it from the same artist as who did the handful of other racial portraits? I loved his male characters, but from all examples he seemed incapable of drawing a female who didn't have minimal clothes, boobs the size of melons, the vacant doe-eyed expression of an aspiring 17-year-old runway model, and skin that glistened with sexy portent. This piece is so much more reasonable. Her assets are there, but not so hilariously exaggerated. It looks like a real character. The expression and body language are interesting. I really like the background as well.

I am happy to privately conclude that some horkvals wear wigs in the name of vanity, and this one has had her protothoracic coxal plates surgically or magically enlarged to be more voluptuous and bouncy-bouncy.

Also, I am amused that people's first outcry was "wtf boobs", and not "wtf high heel carapace". Look at dem tarsal carapace segments :-O

Nakari

Eurulis said:

Eeeh. I think it's just more an issue that mammary glands are honestly immediately identified with mammals, and therefore seem strange and out of place on something like an insectoid Horkval. Same with the Xoran and Grook really.

Xorans are mammalian, in all likelihood. The original members of the race came from live birth and were fed milk, at least

Katzchen

@Blujixapug figured they were weird looking boots, as high heeled carapace was too crazy.

Draqoom

I never really bought into the ADP thing as far as making racial stuff canon. I've run the Horkval racial clan for a really long time (and made the original on an alt of mine or at least the concept before Delehyla created the actual clan) with the exception of a 20 year IG break where Aspy did and it's never been said there that breasts are a no no. The picture is exactly how I would picture a female Horkval. I was super skeptical before looking at it because I love the race so much and figured it'd be butchered beyond belief but this was an amazingly pleasant surprise.

Sarapis

Blujixapug said:

I really like this picture. Is it from the same artist as who did the handful of other racial portraits?

Yep, Chris Bourassa. However, the Artemis (and other forthcoming God portraits) is a different artist.

Halos

Those heels are to die for.

Krypton

Sarapis said:

Nellaundra said:

@Sarapis I don't think asking how a giant dragon can breathe fire is the same as asking how something with an exoskeleton has boobs.

There's no possible biology that we know of that could produce a being that can breathe rock-melting fire. I'd suggest that an endoskeleton with an exoskeleton over it is far more in the realm of the possible than a giant flying lizard-esque creature producing fire and belching it out.

*cough*

Amanu

Sarapis said:

@Eld That had never actually occurred to me re: the mending messages....

Someday, just to mess with you guys, we'll put in a one-armed race....that can dual-wield.

That... would be horrifying. Walk out into a battlefield, see some one armed humanoid double slashing with two swords, flailing a quarterstaff, or firing a bow, I'd just give up and leave.

Eurulis

Nakari said:

Eurulis said:

Eeeh. I think it's just more an issue that mammary glands are honestly immediately identified with mammals, and therefore seem strange and out of place on something like an insectoid Horkval. Same with the Xoran and Grook really.

Xorans are mammalian, in all likelihood. The original members of the race came from live birth and were fed milk, at least

You know, I completely forgot about that bit. Actually rather interesting, now that I think about it.

Babel

Indeed. Human ancestry in the family tree has a distinct tendency to mess things up and cause nasty headaches for genealogists, and it's strong; a drop of human blood can have ramifications generations down the line, especially second-generation human blood, such as Elara's. Remember, her grandfather was the Unnameable Horror! That's potent stuff.

Iocun

Sarapis said:

Well, once we're redone all the races, we're going to switch the portraits in character creation from the existing art to the new art (which you can see all of so far at www.achaea.com/gallery).

I can't say I'm too fond of this. I prefer some of the old artwork by far. I really like some of the new portraits (Xoran, Dwarf, Satyr, Jester), but in the case of Tsol'aa, Siren, Horkval I'd much rather keep the old ones. Incidentally, that pretty much seems to coincide with the races portrayed in female form... I just don't quite agree with the direction he's taking when painting female characters.

Tsol'aa is probably the change I like least. Where the old one was a nice but matter-of-factly and realistic depiction of a Tsol'aa druid(?), the new one looks like (sorry to be so blunt here) Third Reich art crossed with juvenile erotic fantasies.

Beya

There are two paths to chose if you are making breasted horkval canon.

a) The panties and bra approach. Underwear was not common in these times, but the IC explanation for underwear is that it has a function. There is a help scroll on this somewhere. This is not really something that you can apply to breasts.

b) Horkval have origins in a mammalian race. I'm not talking bloodlines here. If you start using player bloodlines to canonise a racial description, you will have stripy sirens and xoran with wing nubs. However, this is a bit of a retcon, and not favourable.

Dragons can breathe fire because it is generally accepted as a trait of a dragon and there is a use to it. It can be reasoned that it's magical fire or chemical fire. Xorans may have breasts because they have a racial ancestor of mammals.

The reason people are fighting Horkval breasts so vehemently is because it sets a standard of association. If Horkval have breasts, that means they are mammals, or they inherit traits of human parents. If Horkval can have breasts, so can Grooks. If Grooks can have breasts, they can have human skin.

As to the authority of the author as canon, @Sarapis, There have been many authors to the game since the induction of Horkval (clans including ADP, Horkval, houses and individual players), that have vehemently said Horkval don't have breasts.

Which brings us back to the original discussion of super sexing the racial art to be largely muscled or voluptuous.

From a playability angle, however, it seems some characters are put off from playing Horkval because they are too alien. So the choice is ultimately to make horkval into humans with armoured skin or keep them alien.

Whatever the case is, there should be clear guidelines as to what a race is, and what a race isn't - Because Achaea is a high roleplay environment and consistency is very, very important.

TL;DR Either Horkval have breasts or they don't. If they do, the roleplay reason needs to be better than 'because the character artwork needs to be sexy or appeal sexually to players'.

Beya

To add to discussion, the Horkval Queen lays eggs. 

While there are mammals that lay eggs (platypi), that the horkval queen is in a hive-like structure the likelihood leans more towards insect.

In addition, neither the queen nor her workers breastfeed the hatchlings.

Sena

While I'm fine with horkvals being more insect-like mammals than humanoid insects, I don't like that it further encourages the already-common trend of making the less human races into humans with weird skin. It always annoyed me to see things like horkval characters describing themselves as sexy human women with antennae and tough skin, and xorans as sexy human women with scales, and grooks as sexy human women with waxy skin and webbed fingers/toes, and rajamala as sexy human women with fur, cat ears, and a tail.

Iocun

They should just reduce the Achaean races to "Sexy Male Human" and "Sexy Female Human" and make things like fur, scales, and antennae minor traits!

Tvistor

I have no problem with sexy female humans.

Thaumas

Those aren't breasts, but extra thick layer of the epicuticle protecting the subesophageal ganglion.

Tvistor

Oh.

Does that mean I'm gay?

Thaumas

No, but since you've brought sexuality into the topic, the closest thing I can think of is Formicophilia.

Sena

This also raises a lot of questions about horkval biology. For example, they hatch from eggs into a grub-like, detritivorous larval stage, so if the breasts really are breasts, when are they used?

I think if horkvals are really intended to be mammals, it would make things a lot simpler if the player race isn't actually the same race as the ones on Ulangi.

Blujixapug

Tvistor said:

Oh.

Does that mean I'm gay?

(linky)

Sarapis

@Sena No idea. I have an appendix in real life but I couldn't tell you why as it's not used for anything.