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New race art - Horkval Bard

13

Comments

  • SarapisSarapis Member, Administrator Posts: 3,398 Achaean staff
    @Sena No idea. I have an appendix in real life but I couldn't tell you why as it's not used for anything. 
    EilonaBeyaMizikZeonSylvance
  • BeyaBeya Member Posts: 353 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Sarapis said:
    @Sena No idea. I have an appendix in real life but I couldn't tell you why as it's not used for anything. 
    The appendix is vestigial of creatures we were before we were humans. If horkval were descended from humanity, breasts would be vestigial traits.

    However, horkval can't be descended from humanity because they are from another plane and were taken to war before the first humans had had their first children.
    "Trust in me, Universe, I will deliver / the promise that no-one shall ever / set their mind to games or play / for Serious Order is the way. I will not rest until it is done; / rules will be made for everyone. / They will know Order and its graces - and just like me, all shall be Greyfaces." - The Heroes of Sapience, Act 5, Greyface.
    EilonaAlyssea
  • ThaumasThaumas Member Posts: 432 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    I refuse to believe in this new canon. Horkvals have no breasts, end of story.
    image
    EilonaElowin
  • SenaSena Member Posts: 3,957 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited December 2012
    Beya said:
    However, horkval can't be descended from humanity because they are from another plane and were taken to war before the first humans had had their first children.
    It is possible though that modern horkval are very different from the original horkval. If the Ulangi horkval (very obviously being insects) are the original race, and player horkval are a sort of hybrid of humans and old horkval (being mostly mammalian with some insect traits), it somewhat works.
  • ThaumasThaumas Member Posts: 432 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    That means a human at one point had sex with an insect. Unless of course magic was involved.
    image
  • ThaumasThaumas Member Posts: 432 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    At least serpents are vertebrates.
    image
  • SarapisSarapis Member, Administrator Posts: 3,398 Achaean staff
    Beya said:
    Sarapis said:
    @Sena No idea. I have an appendix in real life but I couldn't tell you why as it's not used for anything. 
    The appendix is vestigial of creatures we were before we were humans. If horkval were descended from humanity, breasts would be vestigial traits.

    However, horkval can't be descended from humanity because they are from another plane and were taken to war before the first humans had had their first children.
    I think you'll find that more creatures than just humans have breasts. ;)
    Beya
  • BeyaBeya Member Posts: 353 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    edited December 2012
    @Sena Races can breed with each other, but it remains that no amount of interbreeding can change your character to be 'more human-like' or 'more rajamalan' based on your parents. That's just not how it works.

    All I'm saying is it needs consistency and to stick to its own rules.

    image
    "Trust in me, Universe, I will deliver / the promise that no-one shall ever / set their mind to games or play / for Serious Order is the way. I will not rest until it is done; / rules will be made for everyone. / They will know Order and its graces - and just like me, all shall be Greyfaces." - The Heroes of Sapience, Act 5, Greyface.
    Eilona
  • BeyaBeya Member Posts: 353 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Sarapis said:
    ...
    I think you'll find that more creatures than just humans have breasts. ;)
    All of them mammals.
    "Trust in me, Universe, I will deliver / the promise that no-one shall ever / set their mind to games or play / for Serious Order is the way. I will not rest until it is done; / rules will be made for everyone. / They will know Order and its graces - and just like me, all shall be Greyfaces." - The Heroes of Sapience, Act 5, Greyface.
    Eilona
  • EilonaEilona United KingdomMember Posts: 61 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    So basically, Ulangi Horkval and player Horkval were the same until Sarapis had a picture commissioned by an artist who can't draw a female without boobs, breaking all the conventions players have worked to establish. :/
  • AnaidianaAnaidiana Member Posts: 826 @ - Epic Achaean
    Thaumas said:
    Those aren't breasts, but extra thick layer of the epicuticle protecting the subesophageal ganglion.
    stop enabling him. 


    image
    EilonaBeya
  • BeyaBeya Member Posts: 353 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    image

    "Horkval are characterised by armour-like exoskeletons or carapaces in many different colours. They stand taller than most humans, on par with Rajamala and Xoran, but are generally shorter than Trolls. Some have more insectoid features than others, such as mandibles and antennae. Hair, while uncommon, is not unheard of."

    This really just looks more like the armour-like exoskeleton. I realise I'm on a hiding to nothing now, but this is the first canon that's appeared in seven years that has said horkval have breasts. I realise you've probably paid for this artwork and don't want to have to pay for it again, but the above list of reasons are why I believe horkval don't, and shouldn't, have breasts.
    "Trust in me, Universe, I will deliver / the promise that no-one shall ever / set their mind to games or play / for Serious Order is the way. I will not rest until it is done; / rules will be made for everyone. / They will know Order and its graces - and just like me, all shall be Greyfaces." - The Heroes of Sapience, Act 5, Greyface.
    EilonaAlysseaKatzchenSherazad
  • SenaSena Member Posts: 3,957 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Beya said:
    @Sena Races can breed with each other, but it remains that no amount of interbreeding can change your character to be 'more human-like' or 'more rajamalan' based on your parents. That's just not how it works.

    All I'm saying is it needs consistency and to stick to its own rules.
    Except that's exactly how trolls were created, as a hybrid of humans and the Arcanians.
  • EilonaEilona United KingdomMember Posts: 61 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Beya said:

    This really just looks more like the armour-like exoskeleton.

    QFT. I would never have said that they were breasts and neither would the majority of us, if the widely held belief "Horkvals don't have boobs" is anything to go by.
    Katzchen
  • SarapisSarapis Member, Administrator Posts: 3,398 Achaean staff
    Sena said:
    Beya said:
    @Sena Races can breed with each other, but it remains that no amount of interbreeding can change your character to be 'more human-like' or 'more rajamalan' based on your parents. That's just not how it works.

    All I'm saying is it needs consistency and to stick to its own rules.
    Except that's exactly how trolls were created, as a hybrid of humans and the Arcanians.
    Xoran too. Hybrid of Ormyrr and human.
  • SenaSena Member Posts: 3,957 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited December 2012
    Sarapis said:
    What is the issue, exactly?

    (Also, I find the obsession with breasts on this thread to be a little weird.)
    I think the problem people have with it is that ignoring racial differences and treating all races as humans with some token non-human trait is pretty common in player descriptions (especially female descriptions), and it annoys a lot of players. The breasts (or whatever you want to call their chest lumps) are just one aspect of that (maybe because it's the easiest to argue against, assuming actual mammalian breasts rather than just lumps in the exoskeleton).
    EilonaBeya
  • SarapisSarapis Member, Administrator Posts: 3,398 Achaean staff
    Sena said:
    Sarapis said:
    What is the issue, exactly?

    (Also, I find the obsession with breasts on this thread to be a little weird.)
    I think the problem people have with it is that ignoring racial differences and treating all races as humans with some token non-human trait is pretty common in player descriptions (especially female descriptions), and it annoys a lot of players. The breasts (or whatever you want to call their chest lumps) are just one aspect of that (maybe because it's the easiest to argue against, assuming actual mammalian breasts rather than just lumps in the exoskeleton).
    Nobody's asking "Why does she seem to have soft lips despite having an exoskeleton?" though. Just boobs. 
    SylvanceElowinIdelisaVelyse
  • IocunIocun Member Posts: 3,506 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Fine, remove the lips as well!
    BeyaEilona
  • AsmodronAsmodron Member Posts: 2,756 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Thaumas said:
    That means a human at one point had sex with an insect. Unless of course magic was involved.
    That is considered strange? Take a look at the creation of the troll race, they are the descendents of human females breeding with the strange creatures Prospero brought to the triumvirate wars.

    Also at Xoran, came about through the breeding (albeit forced) of Ormyrr and a female human.

    Also dont forget, some of the earliest of humans were very serpentine, some extremely so, why would it be considered strange or "disgusting" to them to mate with a horkval? If anything we can obviously see they had different standards back then :P.
  • AsmodronAsmodron Member Posts: 2,756 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Sarapis said:
    @Asmodron Based years of observation, I can confidently tell you that there is no combination of player races that isn't happy to try to breed with each other.

    mmm that Xorani snout. purrr.
  • SylvanceSylvance Member Posts: 1,477 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    I love OP other than it makes Bard look deceptively good.
    Tvistor: If that was a troll, it was masterful.
    I take my hat off to you.
  • SalinderaSalindera Member Posts: 72 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited December 2012
    I was going to take issue with the breasts, then realized I would also have to take issue with breasted homestuck trolls, then realized I'd have to take issues with some huge number of other fantasy races, and then realized that none of this will actually affect how the vast majority of horkvali females describe themselves in game, and then realized that it would be much easier to just roll with whatever explanation shows up.

    Also, maybe said organs secrete some sort of honeydew-esque substance, like we've seen on Ulangi? I don't want to thing too much about it, but it would fit.
    SylvanceElowinDelphinus
  • DraqoomDraqoom CyreneMember Posts: 480 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Or it could just be a fatty deposit that female Horkvals gain on their chest in times when food is scarce or they find themselves seperated from their hive or traveling to make a new hive. They all have the potential to be queens after all!


    Like I said before, I like it fine. It represents my race well. I am pleased. ADP doesn't dictate what I've always held as canon, Horkval clans have never said no breasts and if they did they are wrong as Sarapis pointed out.
    image

    AsmodronSylvance
  • SenaSena Member Posts: 3,957 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Draqoom said:
    Or it could just be a fatty deposit that female Horkvals gain on their chest in times when food is scarce or they find themselves seperated from their hive or traveling to make a new hive. They all have the potential to be queens after all!
    This is a pretty bad explanation, since it requires multiple further explanations to explain it. "That's just the way the carapace is shaped for females" is better.
    SylvanceBeya
  • TahquilTahquil Member Posts: 4,204 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I think if we go into the hybridization path for the reasoning it opens the doors for 'I'm half-Rajamalan, Half-Atavian, that's why I'm a human with kitty ears and wings.' RP which is against canon that says ' despite your parents being one thing or the other, you are not half-half of those races and damn because of so much interbreeding of the races you might be a different race entirely.'
    BeyaKazuEilona
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