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New Class Psions!

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  • JaedraJaedra Posts: 7Member
    I don't fully understand the backlash against my comment, @Dupre.

    Dupre said:
    No one is being forced to hunt in psion
    I never said that anyone was forced to hunt in Psion. However, I switched from Sentinel to Psion because it made sense for a librarian to have a quieter class. It would be fantastic, I argue, to be able to have my RP AND my hunting all at once. I don't see why that's an issue.

    Dupre said:
    Remember how it took the first person in achaea to reach level 80 two rl years. And the first person for Dragon three rl years?

    I think ease of hunting has come far enough along thank you
    The HELP DRAGONS scroll's creation was posted in Announce  (11/10/2002 at 11:48), according to announce #1149. Sixteen years is quite a long time; I was nine at the time. To try and argue that there has been no power-creep in -16- years is foolish. The bar has been raised over the years, and all I'm arguing is that Psion should be somewhere around that bar. Below the bar would be fine, as everyone can't be the best. The ground, however, is too far beneath the bar.
  • ElisellaElisella Posts: 136Member ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    It's the problem of scaling. Yes, things have gotten easier since Aringar, but if your player base hasn't gotten smarter about game mechanics in more than a decade, something is wrong.

    The observable dynamic in bashing balance is "Naturally tanky classes shouldn't scale as well as squishy ones". This counts for both passive tankiness like platemail or regeneration and active tankiness like self healing. Similarly, classes with passive hunting perks like DW have lower scaling to offset their perks. Classes without much in the way of tankiness get better scaling on their damage. I presume the logic is that the glass cannon will have to hit and run or simply not hunt stronger areas, whereas the slow tanky class will methodically clear it.

    This dynamic gets thrown out of whack when arties and talismans come into play, where a formerly squishy class like Serpent turns into an unstoppable death machine because there's so many ways to improve defenses -and- it scales so well with dexterity. Meanwhile, classes that started out tanky don't get that benefit because they simply don't scale as well. There are anomalies like 2H knights that can be both tanky and put out damage but that's more the exception.

    The Rubicon has been crossed when it comes to arties/talismans, we're not going be able to undo that. The solution also isn't to nerf the glass cannons simply because that's going to mess up the lower end of the spectrum and make novices die if a gnoll sneezes in their general direction.

    I firmly believe that every class in the game, with 15 points in their primary damage stat, should be just above dragon damage output, with small modifiers for base tankiness. Dragon should be an RP/"I want to hunt things that are huge and have huge guts while not dying myself" thing, not a "Congratulations on doing the most hunting you'll ever do, have a thing that makes you hunt better--after you could have used it" thing. Beyond that base level, let the squishy Serpents/Bards/Shamans reign supreme if they want to pay for it.

    Basically, I don't think we should be in a position where we ever have to advise a newbie that the class they want to play is going to be so bad for the activity they're going to spend the majority of their time doing when they start out, that they're better off doing something else.

    If Psion is below SnB in damage output, that's a serious problem. No amount of free plane-razing crits are going to help the poor bastard under level 90 when he's trying to think a mhun guard to death with his mind weapons.
    JaedraKrizal
  • PenwizePenwize Posts: 1,424Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    The general rule is the tankier the class, the worse they are at bashing.  Psion is about the least tanky class in the game right now, but does not enjoy the tradeoff of being one of the best at bashing.  Instead, it's currently one of the worst.

    This is completely separate from power creep, since the vast majority of power creep has come from talismans and arties, which are entirely external to class selection.

    I realize I'm comparing artied classes vs unartied Psion, but the arties would need to almost double Psion's output to put it close to where it should be relative to other classes with similar survivability.  That may be the case! We'll have to see how it goes when they come out.
    Shirszae
  • CaelanCaelan Posts: 1,322Member @ - Epic Achaean
    Dupre said:
    Remember how it took the first person in achaea to reach level 80 two rl years. And the first person for Dragon three rl years?

    I think ease of hunting has come far enough along thank you

    3 years ago...  That's precious.

  • ShirszaeShirszae Santo DomingoPosts: 3,071Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Hunting is a boring grinding drag. I don't understand why they persist in making it even WORSE with sucky hunting damage. Please fix   :'(

    And you won't understand the cause of your grief...


    ...But you'll always follow the voices beneath.

    Dochitha
  • JaliaJalia Posts: 5Member
    What are reasons to switch to psion, what are reasons to stay a druid? What do i gain/lose if i switch?
  • PyoriPyori Posts: 1,177Member @ - Epic Achaean
    Jalia said:
    What are reasons to switch to psion
    compared to druid? None.
    what are reasons to stay a druid?
    The last druid thread that was up should explain that. There's a lot.
    What do i gain/lose if i switch?
    See above.


  • DochithaDochitha Posts: 1,388Member @ - Epic Achaean
    Jalia said:
    What are reasons to switch to psion, what are reasons to stay a druid? What do i gain/lose if i switch?
    Unless you are multi classing, don't delete druid .
    Morthif
  • DunnDunn The great Buffalo tundraPosts: 6,056Member, Secret Squirrel @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Druid is great. I wish I could have druid.


    Lavanda
  • MorthifMorthif Posts: 1,595Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Dunn said:
    Druid is great. I wish I could have druid.

  • LeviticusLeviticus Posts: 338Member ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Antonius said:
    Initial thoughts from the little bit of testing I did last night (after I'd spent about two hours learning skills. 15k lessons takes way too long when you have to do it 20 at a time):

    Weaving abilities looked like they scaled on strength alone, but the scaling didn't seem that high when going from 13 to 16 strength. I just went for constitution racial spec and Robust for my third major trait; Nimble and Health Inspector are the obvious choices for the other two majors.

    Psionics Projection would benefit from having an option to remove it without having to swap three times.

    The class would probably benefit from a way to see unweaving spirit/body/mind levels, similar to Two-Handed's Battlefury Perceive to see fracture levels. Bonus if it also showed bleeding level. Can live without both of these - there's sufficient third person messages to track unweaving, for example - but it would be nice to not have to code that stuff yourself.

    The flavour is really nice, but there's a lot going on when you attack between (potentially) a new weapon being weaved, the attack lines themselves, contemplate and assess, and transcend. I gagged the line for weaving a new weapon as well as all of the messages regarding Transcend (I just track it and display it on my custom prompt instead) to cut down on it a bit.
     Can we please get a quality of life fix for learning? 5000 lessons x 3 isn't fun at 20 per. 
    Jethan
  • CaelanCaelan Posts: 1,322Member @ - Epic Achaean
    Morthif said:
    Dunn said:
    Druid is great. I wish I could have druid.


    If only there were a way....

  • AralayaAralaya Posts: 1,216Member @ - Epic Achaean
    Caelan said:
    Morthif said:
    Dunn said:
    Druid is great. I wish I could have druid.


    If only there were a way....
    You can be a rogue druid


    Tecton-Today at 6:17 PM

    teehee b.u.t.t. pirates
  • MorthifMorthif Posts: 1,595Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Caelan said:
    Morthif said:
    Dunn said:
    Druid is great. I wish I could have druid.


    If only there were a way....
    My fine is beyond silly.
  • SobriquetSobriquet Posts: 2,178Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Morthif said:
    Caelan said:
    Morthif said:
    Dunn said:
    Druid is great. I wish I could have druid.


    If only there were a way....
    My fine is beyond silly.
    Oh, hi there!
    image
    Krizal
  • MinifieMinifie Posts: 2,093Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I assume I am perma-enemied everywhere, fines be damned!


    (Mhaldor's Next Top Model): Taryius says, "Oops, thats not a foray. Thats two novices going at it in the wilderness."
  • MorthifMorthif Posts: 1,595Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Sobriquet said:
    Morthif said:
    Caelan said:
    Morthif said:
    Dunn said:
    Druid is great. I wish I could have druid.


    If only there were a way....
    My fine is beyond silly.
    Oh, hi there!
    I’m aware of the irony. Btw you can ask agate I got bored of trying to get solid rp over it. 
  • TorrentTorrent Posts: 72Member ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    From what I have done with Psions it really depends on what the other person curing prioritises. I found myself doing  lot of herb stacking to get afflictions to stick., if the other person is worrying about a deconstruct kill then there are three other different ways go. A lot has to with watching what they are curing, though it can be done. Imposition is also a great ability to use in combat if your int is high enough, as you can activate it and have a delay to throw off tree curing/sipping/focusing or having them touch shield for foresight and equilibrium throw off and you don't need to channel it and can combine it with other abilities. I am still trying to figure out what deranged mind does and figuring out lil tid bits here an there but all in all I am happy with the class. I would love to see what artefacts come out for it like having foresight extend the duration of either tree or shield effects. Weaving damage definitely needs to increased when it comes to hunting.
    JaedraValaria
  • DochithaDochitha Posts: 1,388Member @ - Epic Achaean
    Here is why you want to use muddled stupidity:
    https://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/diHBTYDm

    See that OP hinder.
    Valaria
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