New Class Psions!

Aralaya

Farrah said:

Aralaya said:

We just gonna ignore that PSI MANIPULATE has no fail condition? Truelocked? PSI MANIPULATE TOUCH TREE and you're out of it...

Mak said that isn't going to remain, so it's not a major concern.

Oh good

Shirszae

Valaria said:

Shirszae said:

The hunting really is atrocious. Its like SNB without the fullplate.

what is the problem with Psions' bashing? just curious. well yeah, Psions can only wear cloth only.

Just the fact that it does next to no damage just like SNB. While taking more damage than SNB. 

Vinzent

If you can afford to buy every health artefact, swiftmount, level three critical pendant, a not terrible mount and trans Riding, hunting as Psion with lucky sipped and guidedluck is not terrible. However, as I and others have already stated, the damage is seriously bad. Eighteen strength does not fix it.

Garner

Vinzent said:

If you can afford to buy every health artefact, swiftmount, level three critical pendant, a not terrible mount and trans Riding, hunting as Psion with lucky sipped and guidedluck is not terrible. However, as I and others have already stated, the damage is seriously bad. Eighteen strength does not fix it.

Glad to know that 18 strength doesn't fix anything. I was wondering if boosting strength might help with the hunting issue, since I hadn't seen anything on it yet, but now I'll definitely go full con.

[Deleted User]

Completion of Blackwave talismans was Depthswalker artifacts when the set was released alongside the class.

Given that Nur denizens are a part of the 'Renegades of Celestia' I'm gonna call it now that completion of the Renegades set is Psion artifacts.

Aralaya

Pyori said:

Completion of Blackwave talismans was Depthswalker artifacts when the set was released alongside the class.

Given that Nur denizens are a part of the 'Renegades of Celestia' I'm gonna call it now that completion of the Renegades set is Psion artifacts.

Ok total idiot here (I’ve not touched talismans) but... what does this mean.

Garner

Aralaya said:

Pyori said:

Completion of Blackwave talismans was Depthswalker artifacts when the set was released alongside the class.

Given that Nur denizens are a part of the 'Renegades of Celestia' I'm gonna call it now that completion of the Renegades set is Psion artifacts.

Ok total idiot here (I’ve not touched talismans) but... what does this mean.

Back when the Black Wave 2.0 was happening, which culminated in Depthswalkers being released, there was a talisman promotion - the Blackwave talismans. If you completed the full set, you got this nifty container that only opened on a specific date. Inside were Depthswalker artefacts - one of each of the three first ones.

Like I said on the clan last month, they could be doing the same thing - a "surprise" waiting later in the month for those that complete a talisman set themed after the recent events that culminated in a class release. That surprise could be a set of artefacts for the Psion class, just as they did with the Depthswalkers and Blackwave set.

I kind of hope they are, because by the 31st, when I open my platinum stockings, I want to know how I'm spending my credits. It'd be nice if the arties were announced by then.

Vinzent

I think the unweave afflictions should perhaps be changed to be in line with pressure, from Air. Momentum does not change the fact that curing either (or haemophilia, if you try to lock) slaughters Psion's momentum to the point that I wouldn't consider it playable against anything that hinders whatsoever unless you have some stupidly consistent, insane luck. The unweaves could even level slightly slower, which wouldn't impact Excise that much and would still leave Deconstruct as an alternative. I simply don't see how losing 50/80% (or even more) momentum on one herb balance is an acceptable situation for Psions to be forced into.

Edit: Losing that much momentum is obviously normal at the beginning of anything. It is more applicable to the 13/18s mark, or even further in.

[Deleted User]

Lol all of Psion's kill routes fork very well off of one another. Saying prioing <x> kills Psion is just plain wrong. If you're getting to the "13s mark" and they haven't run to the hills yet, it very much becomes a "how do you want to die?" scenario. (Dunn's own words there)

eta: Even if they have run, they're prepped by that mark so glhf either way. Unparryable prep, where every attack breaks in 4 hits regardless of hp while being fast. Is lulzy at best.

eta2: Unweavingmind/body should definitely not stack like pressure/spirit does. It is fine for air lord because you're not afflicting nearly as fast as Psion does. Spirit is fine, as well, because it's gated behind smoking.

Lavanda

Pyori said:

Lol all of Psion's kill routes fork very well off of one another. Saying prioing <x> kills Psion is just plain wrong. If you're getting to the "13s mark" and they haven't run to the hills yet, it very much becomes a "how do you want to die?" scenario. (Dunn's own words there)

Seconded. A psion can push 5 different routes at once as though they're just one route. Thinking of psion in routes is bad. They're a "choose your own death" class when played right. The priority pressure is fabulous. I've beaten soulpiercer bard as psion, and will confirm that if you're losing to hinder it's only because you're not using your own hinder and sometimes even expunge properly. 

Vinzent

Pyori said:

Lol all of Psion's kill routes fork very well off of one another. Saying prioing <x> kills Psion is just plain wrong. If you're getting to the "13s mark" and they haven't run to the hills yet, it very much becomes a "how do you want to die?" scenario. (Dunn's own words there)

eta: Even if they have run, they're prepped by that mark so glhf either way. Unparryable prep, where every attack breaks in 4 hits regardless of hp while being fast. Is lulzy at best.

eta2: Unweavingmind/body should definitely not stack like pressure/spirit does. It is fine for air lord because you're not afflicting nearly as fast as Psion does. Spirit is fine, as well, because it's gated behind smoking.

It is, unfortunately, not incorrect. They may fork, but they also all require different aspects. If you wish to lock, you must break at least one leg and the head (torso too, probably). If you wish to Excise, you must break a leg or the head. If you wish to Deconstruct, anything you break is solely to increase affliction count, which removes roughly half of the Weaving skill-set. You should be avoiding contact by the 13s mark, but if you are off herb balance with paralysis even once, you have likely lost the momentum necessary; same deal for a leg break. The issue is not in how fast or slow Psion can build, but rather that unwoven mind/body, which take time to passively build, can be eliminated in one herb balance and thus eliminate a majority of your momentum (as you must deliver and wait awhile, again). If this is used to attempt a lock fork, you are going to run into some heavy RNG and the assumption bleed won't always be clotted to zero, or that shield spam won't be incurred as a result (a natural defense).

Given the affliction delivery rate for Air, the comparison is not inaccurate. A skill delivers an affliction, relapse another, and so on. While two afflictions are not delivered in the same prompt, it builds equally as fast, if not faster in some cases, which is why six/seven pressure is usually necessary to finish the job. Psion does not actively level the unweaves, but rather focuses on keeping them alive on an individual. The issue I see is that failure to do so, either because of hinder, shield (foresight barely helps), or RNG, means you have very likely lost, depending on the class you are up against. This differs from any other affliction class I can think of. For example, Air does not lose all pressure on one calcite/pear, nor does Depthswalker lose all aurum/kelp afflictions when timeloop is cured. The loss of momentum is equal in those cases compared to Psion, because you are essentially forced to start an entirely different process of elimination, whereas in reality with Air and Depthswalker, you are likely slowed by one or two balances. Not five or more. An argument that limb damage negates the problem entirely is irrelevant. Limb breaks do not 'save' a severe loss of momentum; they are intended to boost momentum (or hinder too, in the case of legs), but when the overarching afflictions can be snuffed so quickly, those become moot circumstances.

Armali

I'd like to see some logs of Psion combat!

[Deleted User]

Vinzent said:

It is, unfortunately, not incorrect.

Odd how everyone thus far who's had success with Psion agrees with me, but alright. Even Lavanda right there did, and she's been killing people with it frequently.

Vinzent said:

They may fork, but they also all require different aspects.

They really don't. Every route is herb-based (at its core, obviously there's prep to keep people in place).

If you wish to lock, you must break at least one leg and the head

You don't have to break head. Your leg hit prones them. Impatience is given if they're already proned. What they cure on this hit is where you can decide your first fork. Do you go for blast? Or do you lock them? If you haven't stuck haemo before going into this route, you're already doing it wrong.

If you wish to Excise, you must break a leg or the head.

That's not an issue if you're afflicting properly?

The issue is not in how fast or slow Psion can build, but rather that unwoven mind/body, which take time to passively build

Unweavemind prones (and you should be comboing this with paralysis if they aren't already paralysed). You eat to cure that, you die. This is what a fork is, and is one of many a Psion has.

you are going to run into some heavy RNG and the assumption bleed won't always be clotted to zero, or that shield spam won't be incurred as a result (a natural defense).

Can't shield prone. Prio haemo runs into yet another fork. Only RNG is goldenseal, in which case you can focus lock still, and finish the lock anyway since your attacks are faster than focus bal.

Given the affliction delivery rate for Air, the comparison is not inaccurate.

It is inaccurate. Psion is much faster, on top of having prep to deal with. It's Shikudo on crack.

<snip irrelevant stuff>

For example, Air does not lose all pressure on one calcite/pear, nor does Depthswalker lose all aurum/kelp afflictions when timeloop is cured.

Correct, and Psion does not 'lose all momentum' - You're not forced to start over, you simply fork into another strategy... Which you can fork back into deconstruct while they're trying to re-adapt again... This is how forks work, and will kill you.

You seem to not understand the concept of how forks work. The only thing I really foresee giving Psion much trouble is a turtling Bard.

Vinzent

While wonderful that impatience is given prone with Overhand, bleed is also a necessary aspect for any lock, and that, unless you wish to cycle Rupture repeatedly, will require a leg break.

[Deleted User]

Vinzent said:

While wonderful that impatience is given prone with Overhand, bleed is also a necessary aspect for any lock, and that, unless you wish to cycle Rupture repeatedly, will require a leg break.

No need to cycle it. Just need to learn what abilities don't proc it (so you can get affs rolling), and what abilities make it stronger!

Armali said:

I'd like to see some logs of Psion combat!

Tail end of a spar. Not a spectacular one, keep forgetting some of my aliases. https://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/T7zNTSZ7

(the force was unenemy, because fuck bard. Alas he caught that quick)

[Deleted User]

Another, marginally better, spar. https://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/xI2uiX3E

I don't like Alchemist. (not included is the first chol bomb that knocked me down to 28 health)

Dochitha

My experience with Psion this far matches that @Pyori and @Lavanda. I also learned from @Lavanda on using our hinder: stupidity, and exaggerated it. 

Like everyone said, it forks, and rely heavily on it much more than other aff classes . You don't get to choose how they die. It is their choice.

Psion is the 2nd momentum class so far I could beat @Emiya druid, who ropes and stun every very often. The other was serpent to burst within her rope cooldown of like what 10s? All thanks to Psion hinder stopping her bind stun combo.

And we are just beginning with Psion. The class is great. Killing with Psion Is an art, not science. Really a fun class!

Oh my now I want to know the artefacts!!! Please have one that bumps hunting.

Elisella

Your Psion arties are going to be a 10/20/30% boost to weaving damage ala DW scythes and things that reduce your cooldowns.

[Deleted User]

- Rupture now affects the next 10 attacks instead of 3.

- Damage boost by 10/20/30%.
- Increased bleeding from deathblow / increased threshold for Excise.
- Reduced cooldown on foresight / increased effect of foresight.
- Let you choose the element for Destruction.
- Increased lightbind distance.

Lots of silly things they can do, to milk credits.

Lavanda

Pyori said:

- Let you choose the element for Destruction.

I would cry. Doch already 3shots me with all his arties if he only gets one lightning 

Jaedra

Artes to increase Weaving would be good, but I'd like them to ALSO just increase Weaving damage, or damage v. denizens. As it stands, that arte would be required for even average hunting. At least it's better than SnB in that the artefact would do more than arte swords would (I think), but it seems exploitative to just put the damage so low as to force arte purchases.

Dupre

No one is being forced to hunt in psion

[Deleted User]

Dupre said:

No one is being forced to hunt in psion

Do you make it your life mission to post the dumbest comments? Or is that just a coincidence?

Penwize

I have to say, I'm a little confused why new classes generally have absolutely terrible bashing.  DW did, now Psion does.  I don't even understand why Psion does so little bashing damage, it has worse tankiness than Serpent. It absolutely should do more damage than Serpent does, given that the general rule is more tanky = less damage, less tanky = more damage.  I haven't precisely tested it, but even if Psion's secondskin is as good as scales, Psion can't wear armour while serpent gets scalemail. There's no reason for it to be this bad.

Unless there's some secret we're missing, but so far I'm not finding anything to redeem it.  Flurry doing random damage to denizens based on its number of hits could potentially make it average out to be better (and make things more interesting), but that's currently not the case.  That could also open the way for an artie to skew its number of hits vs denizens toward the upper bound.

[Deleted User]

Penwize said:

DW still does

Fixed.

Dupre

If a new class is an ace of all trades who will play old classes anymore?

Garner

Dupre said:

If a new class is an ace of all trades who will play old classes anymore?

Psion isn't the ace of anything. It's not the ace of mobility, utility, hunting, and as of yet there's no evidence it will be the ace of combat or group combat, and even if it is it's likely to get nerfed. All we're asking for is a somewhat level field for one of the most basic activities this game has - killing npc's.

Aralaya

Dupre said:

If a new class is an ace of all trades who will play old classes anymore?

“This class has terrible bashing” != “This class must have same bashing as full artied serpent”

Dupre

Remember how it took the first person in achaea to reach level 80 two rl years. And the first person for Dragon three rl years?

I think ease of hunting has come far enough along thank you

[Deleted User]

Pyori said:

Do you make it your life mission to post the dumbest comments? Or is that just a coincidence?

It's as if gameplay shifts over the years, or something.