Dragon Lairs

Qwindor

I am finding the quest line instead of being a challenge just being a chore and now no longer enjoyable. I have spent over 8 hours trying to find and track the courier and of course when I find him there isn't even really a hint how to complete what you need other than by any means possible which to just about everyone means beat him until he talks except that he runs every single time you hit him and then you have to attempt to once again find him.

Dochitha

Yah the courier is too much. If beating is unavoidable, can make him crit proof?Frustration isn't a function of fun, progress is .

Taryius

The Admin are consistently awesome in releasing new content to this game, and being patient with us fools who run head first into it! Huge raves to all the admin, @Ictinus and @Nicola specifically! 

Elemental Lord, Dragon Lairs! Its awesome having more content added that you have to earn, gives people fun things to aim for! Thank you guys!

Qwindor

Jeebus that courier was a pain. Thanks to @Shandrala and @Shirszae for helping me with getting that bugger to keep going.

Aegoth

Taryius said:

The Admin are consistently awesome in releasing new content to this game, and being patient with us fools who run head first into it! Huge raves to all the admin, @Ictinus and @Nicola specifically! 

Elemental Lord, Dragon Lairs! Its awesome having more content added that you have to earn, gives people fun things to aim for! Thank you guys!

Definitely second this. It was agonising for the third part, but it was an awesome quest. Well done admin team, and thank you so much for this content!

Go team Holocaust for being the first!

Morthif

yay for silent bug fixes. 

Farrah

I think to avoid freeriding and at least somewhat discourage troll-y problems Cooper was concerned about, there should really be some kind of minimum contribution required to have access to hoard bonuses and the hoard invest command. It could be 50k per year, or something along those lines, and there could maybe be a way to have it automatically withdrawn from your bank account each year if you choose. Otherwise, you wouldn't get bonuses for a new year until you went and invested it (or endowed it through gold cap).

Alternatively, you could have to HOARD ATTUNE to get the bonuses, and while attuned maybe 1-2% of all your gold drops from bashing automatically goes to the hoard, so people who don't ever bash past gold cap have a similar type of automatic contribution if they want bonuses.

It seems like it's going to be silly when everyone can use the hoard and everyone gets the bonuses but not everyone even endows anything.

Also maybe a limit on how often an individual person can use the invest command to prevent one person from wasting all the hoard's gold. It could scale with endow ranking so people who contribute more can activate powers more.

Jarrod

If nobody contributes directly, then the only people who contribute are people who bash beyond gold cap. Given those people were already doing that, they're not losing anything, they're simply gaining the opportunity to add buffs while bashing.

I disagree with requiring member dues, the people who are contributing post-gold cap aren't doing something different, and if anyone specifically contributes then they're probably going to activate the bonus for themselves right then.

Farrah

It's only a payment to get the bonus, though. The person who endows and invests immediately as described is paying for the bonus. Why should everyone else get it free?

Kiet

haven't you heard of SHARING

Kiet

btw bash faster

Farrah

I am sharing Aegoth's gold just fine. Check the endow rankings.

Kiet

As long as someone does it, this gold hoard isn't gonna grow itself! Chop chop

Aegoth

My gold.....

Jarrod

Farrah said:

It's only a payment to get the bonus, though. The person who endows and invests immediately as described is paying for the bonus. Why should everyone else get it free?

This is a weird mindset to me though. You're getting it by investing and activating it regardless. It doesn't hurt you at all that other people also get the bonus. Why would you be opposed to them getting something from you giving zero extra effort?

Aegoth

Because socialism is wrong

Torinn

It does hurt you that other people get it for free.  You'll always be consigned to be the one grabbing the gold to do it because nobody else will bother.  They get it for free.

Dupre

Farrah said:

I think to avoid freeriding and at least somewhat discourage troll-y problems Cooper was concerned about, there should really be some kind of minimum contribution required to have access to hoard bonuses and the hoard invest command. It could be 50k per year, or something along those lines, and there could maybe be a way to have it automatically withdrawn from your bank account each year if you choose. Otherwise, you wouldn't get bonuses for a new year until you went and invested it (or endowed it through gold cap).

Alternatively, you could have to HOARD ATTUNE to get the bonuses, and while attuned maybe 1-2% of all your gold drops from bashing automatically goes to the hoard, so people who don't ever bash past gold cap have a similar type of automatic contribution if they want bonuses.

It seems like it's going to be silly when everyone can use the hoard and everyone gets the bonuses but not everyone even endows anything.

Also maybe a limit on how often an individual person can use the invest command to prevent one person from wasting all the hoard's gold. It could scale with endow ranking so people who contribute more can activate powers more.

what you need is to start some kind of org -- let's call it "Master Lair Coalition" -- that establishes and enforces arbitrary rules about who can use the hoard goodies and when

Good luck to you, dear

Kiet

Torinn said:

It does hurt you that other people get it for free.  You'll always be consigned to be the one grabbing the gold to do it because nobody else will bother.  They get it for free.

literally anyone that plays this game actively is a dragon by now. you really think you alone out of like the 50-100 people in your color will be contributing? lol

Dupre

What % are even interested in getting lairs tho?

Kiet

Probably more than are interested in elemental lord, a time-gated quest for essentially PvP only classes that lots of people completed anyway.

Farrah

Jarrod said:

Farrah said:

It's only a payment to get the bonus, though. The person who endows and invests immediately as described is paying for the bonus. Why should everyone else get it free?

This is a weird mindset to me though. You're getting it by investing and activating it regardless. It doesn't hurt you at all that other people also get the bonus. Why would you be opposed to them getting something from you giving zero extra effort?

Why don't we just give everyone every artefact I pay for, since it's 0 extra cost for me? You pay for a special perk. It's not necessarily worth the cost if you're buying it for everyone else.

You have to bear in mind that your lair is full of enemies of your city who fight and compete against you. It's not like me buying Targossas a crit bonus, which is a net positive since I generally benefit from my city's improvement.

But how it actually is, I'm paying to help enemies level for free. If everyone had to pay in, then it's more like selling talismans to enemies for mutual benefit. I'm not really sure how it's difficult to understand why you wouldn't want others to obtain free benefits from you in a group of people that's working for different goals, in particular.

Torinn

Kiet said:

Torinn said:

It does hurt you that other people get it for free.  You'll always be consigned to be the one grabbing the gold to do it because nobody else will bother.  They get it for free.

literally anyone that plays this game actively is a dragon by now. you really think you alone out of like the 50-100 people in your color will be contributing? lol

If I alone hunted enough to activate benefits then yes it's very possible.  "Oh Kiet hunts enough by himself to activate the perk.  I don't need to hunt any more and will go pk instead since my contribution isn't needed".  If you think that wouldn't happen you're incredibly naive.

Farrah

If it wasn't clear by my earlier comment about Aegoth's gold, I'm not really arguing this to protect me. I'm definitely one of the people who will just mooch off others and contribute nothing both because I don't really bash and because I'm practical. I just think that seems unfair, and would consider contributing if it was required in order to obtain the perks.

Jiraishin

Kiet said:

Torinn said:

It does hurt you that other people get it for free.  You'll always be consigned to be the one grabbing the gold to do it because nobody else will bother.  They get it for free.

literally anyone that plays this game actively is a dragon by now. you really think you alone out of like the 50-100 people in your color will be contributing? lol

Does that make me dormant  

Kiet

Farrah said:

Why don't we just give everyone every artefact I pay for, since it's 0 extra cost for me?

agreed unironically

Kiet

Torinn said:

Kiet said:

Torinn said:

It does hurt you that other people get it for free.  You'll always be consigned to be the one grabbing the gold to do it because nobody else will bother.  They get it for free.

literally anyone that plays this game actively is a dragon by now. you really think you alone out of like the 50-100 people in your color will be contributing? lol

If I alone hunted enough to activate benefits then yes it's very possible.  "Oh Kiet hunts enough by himself to activate the perk.  I don't need to hunt any more and will go pk instead since my contribution isn't needed".  If you think that wouldn't happen you're incredibly naive.

Who cares? you were gonna hunt anyway lol.

Taryius

I'm all for the shared hoard in theory, honestly keeping everything personal can get stale pretty quickly and I do really enjoy cross faction interaction quite a bit. The gold costs are very reasonable for the perks, so its not like you slave away for days and days to try and afford one. Its really pretty cool overall.

My biggest gripe though is that I feel like the hoard will never get very big, no sense saving your gold in the hoard itself when some random person could come by and spend it all on boosts to go hunting while your offline or unavailable. People will just keep their own personal gold hoards and endow the minimum 100k to activate a crit bonus or whatever when they know they will use it. Which I think will end up making the whole hoard system feel a lot less "hoard-ish".

Oh and it would be nice to know that there are hoard boosts active without needing to go to the hoard itself and check!

Minifie

         

Farrah

Taryius said:

I'm all for the shared hoard in theory, honestly keeping everything personal can get stale pretty quickly and I do really enjoy cross faction interaction quite a bit. The gold costs are very reasonable for the perks, so its not like you slave away for days and days to try and afford one. Its really pretty cool overall.

My biggest gripe though is that I feel like the hoard will never get very big, no sense saving your gold in the hoard itself when some random person could come by and spend it all on boosts to go hunting while your offline or unavailable. People will just keep their own personal gold hoards and endow the minimum 100k to activate a crit bonus or whatever when they know they will use it. Which I think will end up making the whole hoard system feel a lot less "hoard-ish".

I mentioned this to Aegoth, too. It makes me sad.