Crusades

Aralaya

Been stuck in pre-order/lay order since last October. Still can't subvert.

Buff lay-order pls

Aralaya

Only problem I see with Penwize's plan is that Rogues exist

Xias

I have only experienced one crusade and during that time, we didn't see a single opposing soul. And it was during what I consider an acceptable play time. It was fun because it was a new place to me but I can see how collecting shards for an hour to reap little benefits can be a drag, especially for those not in an order. But:

- What if there were additional activities? Assuming the area was more accessible to players during active crusade times, what if there was more stuff to do besides collecting shards? Perhaps large shards fall like normal but then also have denizens spawn for players to slay and collect mini shards to turn in? Or some other collectible, either to increase power or hamper fighting parties. I reminisce of Alterac Valley in its prime where just because you couldn't fight hard, didn't mean you couldn't meaningfully contribute like collecting flesh or capping mines. This would take advantage of the HUGE space given. 

- What if there were more personal rewards? Orders compete for essence, right? But for other players who have lapsed orders or are non members, that is a moot issue. Perhaps there is a way for participation to somehow translate into a token system? Maybe if you kill someone, you get X number of Motes (or insert random currency). You trade in the motes after the crusade to an npc for a temporary buff. Who wouldn't want to participate in a crusade if it means by doing a bit of work, I could purchase a 12 hour 25% xp buff (or more). Or increased health/mana. It gives everyone am incentive to compete while enhancing their own playstyle.

Beyond that, I agree that access to the area perhaps through city fonts or shrines would be nice. 24 warning would definitely help increase awareness (maybe even a denizen yelling his head off every hour would help).

Mindshell

I like that there's an outlet for combat specifically outside of cities, I don't have an order group to bring with me though and have an inactive god. Regardless I've attempted to see if I could partake a few times but the response has always been disinterest in any interaction while the established groups steamroll through.

So I took my pieces off the gameboard. New incentives or penalties wouldn't provide me anymore motivation to play with people who aren't really interested in playing.

Penwize

Aralaya said:

Only problem I see with Penwize's plan is that Rogues exist

That's actually a benefit to it, rather than a con isn't it?  Rogues could get blessings from orders, based on whatever the order picked as their blessing.  Also gives rogues a decent opportunity to interact with those orders!

Farrah

Neutral ground is fun when teams are equal, but if the problem is "teams are never equal," we could always add more defensive advantages to Crusades. Maybe order members have shrine healing/curing when standing in a room with a splinter on the ground of their god, and order enemies suffer paroxysm.

Torinn

A balancing mechanic would be nice.  Difficult to do if there are multiple enemy groups

Kyrra

When Crusades rolled out, it was fascinating to see the different messages from different divine when Crusades are started. It was cool seeing the different dragon and deathsight messages as well.

Being in an Order of two people with a dormant divine though, it seemed like it was going to be near impossible to compete with Targ, Mhaldor, or even Eleusis to get enough essence to see this stuff for my own Order.

I've asked about crusading several times as well in the past and the general consensus was a no because we didn't have numbers or didn't know who to target that wouldn't see our shrine network dropped in retaliation overnight.

I'd love to participate solely to see more aesthetics, the mechanics don't really bother me as much. Sadly, crusades generally happen when I am asleep or at work, so jumping in on someone elses isn't even an option.

Frederich

Just target a dead order as well.  Like Pandora/Gaia/etc.

Mathilda

On the other hand, perhaps organizations can try to assess and determine exactly why people flock to  certain orgs, and avoid others like the plague. It's not always the case of wanting the easy win.

It has something to do with how members of an organization treat each other. Mhaldor, for all the rants that we see here and on Discord and the like, maintains a community that encourages hard core participation. The same goes for Targossas. I reckon this is also the reason why these organizations attract volunteers to take up patron godmin roles, and thus lead to Mhaldor and Targossas getting more 'attention' (as in the War).

So, my response is: look at why there is an imbalance of numbers, and fix the problem at its root. Encourage more converts to your city by making your city worthy of getting new talent. Don't continue to add 'safety nets' that will just encourage the 'down' orgs to not change anything about how they're running themselves.

Xaden

Translation: Stop acting like a dick to the people who want to improve you and you will improve.

Sobriquet

Achaea is a 2.5 city game. Mhaldor vs Targ with Eleusis around as and when. The other three cities are pretty much pointless when it comes to any meaningful conflict. Ashton has more than most, but has tailed off in recent times. Part of that is player base, part of that is factional identity but part is also due to participation. 

In Hashan, in a month where people are actively seeking to kill 3 times and die 6 times, I've not seen one raid or situation where anyone is willing to throw themselves into things. Defence aside, s we usually get a few for that. People would rather kill each other at Crossroads or get paid (Someone paid me 12cr to kill me once) instead of trying to actually do -something-. It also doesn't help we have Twiddles order with one active member (who's hardly around due to having a baby recently) and no real need for a fight.

Compare that to the participation in Targ and Mhaldor and it's chalk and cheese. It's no wonder @Mathilda and @Karren and the like swapped cities. I'm sorely tempted too myself, there is just a lot of "starting again" if I moved.

There is clearly a place for non combat cities in Achaea and I'd support them wholeheartedly, but in the context of this thread, the Crusade mechanics are there for 3 or 4 orders only as it stands. 

Never been in a crusade, no idea what it entails at all and given the current set up on my character I doubt I ever will. 

Klendathu

BESEECH VASTAR FOR CRUSADE

Find Pandora master shrine

BESEECH VASTAR FOR DEGREDATION

Then both @Kyrra and @Sobriquet will be happy*


*Happiness may vary

Keorin

Part of the trouble is, people also flock to places that are flourishing. Ashtan, Eleusis, and Hashan have all hit peaks over the last few years and dropped off afterwards, and often it's just been from a few key people leaving, or losing active gods, or other external factors (that's not to say that there aren't cases where those things are preventable, but dormant players and gods are inevitable, no matter what you do).

Every place should try to improve, but it's not just a matter of certain cities getting lazy about improving or not being inclusive enough. Making systems that you can meaningfully participate in without being in a strong place makes it a lot more fun to choose to play in a city that might not be in the best place.

Kiet

It'd be very naive to suggest a lot of people don't just try to join whatever city is strongest at the time if they're trying to pvp, though. City culture/leadership definitely has an impact on retention, but Joe PK isn't doing hours of research to find this out--they'll pick whatever they think lets them fight on their terms the most.

Of course, some people are also joining simply because they like the theme of a city more. In this situation, the two 'not really neutral but in practice neutral anyway' cities offer very little or nothing over Cyrene.

You'll notice these two issues aren't exactly ones that leadership can fix overnight (or even after years of effort). Admin support can help if you have a badass god, obv, but if it were that easy, then the problem would've been solved (for more than a few months at a time) by now.

The reality, imo, is that the game can't support 6 independent, interesting, and thriving city-states (anymore).

Mathilda

I think we Imperian refugees eventually ended up leaving Hashan for Targossas because Hashan was unnecessarily gimping itself with the whole "We're Shadows not Darkness" roleplay. This started happening even when Hashan was at its peak and before Targossas got big, so it wasn't a case of "joining the easy win".

Achaea is becoming ever more 'streamlined', with cities and orders being associated with and virtually synonymous to each other. This has its good and bad points, but going against that is of course going to result in problems for your organization.

edit:

With that said, I also support the idea of 'lay people' in the Order who are less 'hardcore' than the actual priestly members, but still benefit from Order stuff like blessings and crusade wins.

Reyson

Tangential, but I really do feel that, almost always, moving to another faction is an OOC decision. From what I've experienced and what I've heard of others' experience, it usually boils down to: 

-Having friends you wanna hang out with somewhere else;
-Wanting to pvp more/less and wanting people to do that with;
-Undergoing some current issue with the place you're at that makes staying not particularly appealing. 

Sure, factions could do more to be more inclusive and more engaging. But let's not kid ourselves: Achaea's a game, and given that the big driver behind players moving characters about is tied to a subjective idea of 'fun,' no City could really have a catch-all, universally appealing set of qualities. 

I think places that are unpopular or 'dead' are mostly so because the people who're running it have run it too long and have forgotten how to make it fun for other people, particularly people just coming into the game. Conversely, the spots that are thriving are good at including new people, and have relatively high turnover for leadership positions/newer perspectives, which keeps things more in line with how people coming into the game want to enjoy the game. But that's all OOC stuff, not IC stuff. 

Caelan

A new article has been posted on the Announce newsboard.

ANNOUNCE NEWS #4826                                     (09/28/2017 at 11:52)  

From   : Makarios, the Meticulous

To     : Everyone

Subject: Crusades

Klendathu

You beseech Vastar for His blessing in your holy crusade.

Xaden

Right at my lunch time. Win.

Antonius

Caelan said:

A new article has been posted on the Announce newsboard.

ANNOUNCE NEWS #4826                                     (09/28/2017 at 11:52)  

From   : Makarios, the Meticulous

To     : Everyone

Subject: Crusades

Why wouldn't you post the entire thing?

Aralaya

We've just made some changes to the general crusade mechanics. We also intend on updating the rewards for participation, but those are still under discussion

* You no longer need to be in a divine order in order to SUBVERT splinters.
* SUBVERTing splinters has been sped up from 40 seconds to 25.
* Crusades now have a windup of 24 hours rather than 3. 
* The three crusade initiation messages are now spaced 12 hours apart (so 1 at initiation, 1 at half way, 1 when the crusade starts).
* You may now TOUCH any shrine in your home city to enter Nishnatoba during a crusade, providing you are not a personal enemy of the order that it belongs to. Notably, you can use this method to access Nishnatoba whether you are in an order or not. This will take you to the area linked to that shrine's god, giving more access points and making it harder to camp entrances. You may still use your master shrine on the prime plane if you are in an order as previously.
* Essence splinters will now spawn every 3 minutes rather than every 5. This of course still requires all previously generated essence to be harvested before more will spawn.

Enjoy!

Penned by My hand on the 23rd of Daedalan, in the year 753 AF.


^ this is why I love achaea

Mathilda

Wow, barely a couple of weeks as Dawnlord and already Micaelis has made game-wide changes.

#MyDawnlord

Kiet

Pretty sure it was actually the new Tyrannus, the timing lines up too well.

Micaelis

Pfft, not like I can take credit for that! Achaea has always been full of helpful people who are willing to grind out some work and solve problems as they arise. This is our victory, every one! What a great community.







(Just kidding it was all me.)

Makarios

What the left hand giveth the right hand can taketh away.

Shortest cityleader terms ever.

Aralaya

Aralaya for Dawnlord.

Micaelis

@Makarios where are you all leaning as far as the rewards go, if you've talked about that at all yet?

Makarios

On a more serious note, some great feedback in this thread. We have some ideas for the reward/incentive side of things, but they'll be a bit more involved so require us to flesh out the conceps before going further with those.

Klendathu

Xaden said:

Right at my lunch time. Win.

Remember, it's customary to bring flowers / buy me dinner before (acting unspeakably towards) me