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An open letter to the Administration

SabethaSabetha Member Posts: 3
To the creators and administrators of Achaea:

I've been playing this game, in one character or another, for about ten years now. I've spent an awful lot of time and a fair chunk of money on it. I've had periods of disenchantment, periods of ennui. I've also had periods where my characters have seemed more real, more vital, more connected than any relationship on the outside. The experience overall has been transformative. I've learned a huge amount about myself through the lense of this game.

I don't want this to sound like I'm just complaining, an old player grousing about the old days. To be honest, the current batch of players is almost as active as they've ever been. The game is as fun as it's ever been, for me at least. 

However there is a problem. A few months back, my city, Cyrene (the one I always seem to wind up in, with all my previous characters, and which I finally learned to stop avoiding with my latest), was very excited to learn that Prospero had returned to realms. He was, after all, an old city patron and would replace the hole left behind when Phaestus left us about a year previous. 

In what seemed like no time at all, however, he was gone again, leaving the city essentially patron-less and a newly repopulated Order bereft. 

This is not a localized problem. 

Only three gods can be said, with any certainty, to be active, near as I can tell. There are twice that number of cities, and the political and religious ideologies of the three that are active tend towards the extreme, meaning that they are not always appropriate for houses and cities outside their narrow scope. 

I don't know what internal problems have caused this. I'm just asking that you address it. Each city really needs at least one god to act as patron.

Thank you.


  • KoganKogan Member Posts: 401 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    "My Patron sucked so you should deal with it too."
  • JacenJacen Member Posts: 2,307 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Kiet said:
    To be 100% blunt, if you're not one of the aligned cities you don't need a patron that badly. If Mhaldor can survive for as long as it did with no Sartan, Cyrene can certainly survive given they're so detached from the world.
    Unless things have changed (and I've been away for awhile, so they very well could have) it used to be next to impossible to get org-related changes/upgrades/etc implemented without an active Patron. It took forever to get an enchanting room added to the Black Lotus monastery because the role of Twilight had authority over changes to the House. In fact, I'm pretty sure I had to wait for a new Twilight to take on the role before we could get an enchanting room added. 

    So yeah, lack of an active Patron can be stifling in many, many ways.
  • KietKiet Member Posts: 3,263 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Someone's going to have to deal with it at any one point in time. It's not that bad to deal with, is my point. Cyrene doesn't have the issue of losing population without a patron like Targ/Mhaldor do.
  • ReysonReyson Member Posts: 652 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Don't producers/other Gods help with requests, anyways, if you forward them and they're deemed appropriate? 
  • KietKiet Member Posts: 3,263 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited May 2017
    Yes, otherwise we'd never have been able to replace viceroys.
  • JacenJacen Member Posts: 2,307 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Reyson said:
    Don't producers/other Gods help with requests, anyways, if you forward them and they're deemed appropriate? 
    Kiet said:
    Yes, otherwise we'd never have been able to replace viceroys.
    I guess it depends on the request. I was told no one else could touch it, and had to wait 3 months to get my request filled, and that only happened because someone new assumed the Twilight role. 
  • AodfionnAodfionn Seattle, WAMember Posts: 1,222 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I don't get the point of the open letter. What're you really asking for, here? Loosening the standards for Celani/Godrole? Forcing quality players to leave their characters to go be Celani? Make Celani fit certain godroles rather than others based on a perception of who has suffered the worst or the longest?

    It's a really fucking hard role (to be a Celani, or any of the god characters). There's a reason for the high turnover. But unless you're asking for a loss of quality, then there's really no way for the admins to magically fill the roles to keep everyone pleased. 

    All the more reason to show Divine characters love while they're here, because nobody does that shit forever. Enjoy them while you have them, if you do, and keep on hoping if you don't. But writing forum posts ain't gonna do anything to solve the problem.
    Aurora says, "Are you drunk, Aodfionn?" 

    (The Targossian Academy): Halos says, "Go on! I need to feel the wind in my hair!"

  • KietKiet Member Posts: 3,263 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    What exactly do you think should change? I'm pretty sure we're all aware the situation's not ideal, but unless someone can offer tangible solutions, 'deal with it, it's not so bad' is the best we can do.
  • OgnogOgnog Member Posts: 284 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Kiet said:
    What exactly do you think should change? I'm pretty sure we're all aware the situation's not ideal, but unless someone can offer tangible solutions, 'deal with it, it's not so bad' is the best we can do.
    Okay, just spitballing ideas ....

    * Removing or reducing the requirement for OOC isolation from the player base would make becoming a God more attractive.
    * The HELP file should be updated to make clear that you can return to your adventurer character should you choose to do so.
    * Lowering the bar with respect to time commitment for Celani / Demigod / God would make the roles more maintainable.
    * Remove whatever pressures exist (explicit or imagined) on Celani / Demigods / Gods to dedicate many hours every week or else leave. Make players who have previously filled God roles welcome to return to the Garden should their circumstances change so that they have the time.
    * Make the God roles more relaxed and less stressful. Let them have fun with it.

  • ReysonReyson Member Posts: 652 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    All of your solutions aren't great for the game, either, though. 

    God roles are very tightly controlled, because they're basically characters that have been ongoing for years and years. That means you can't just 'have fun with it,' because older players expect their Gods to be the Gods they knew. Which means a big time investment diving into a God role. 

    Loosening the restriction around Gods interacting with players is a terrible idea. Favoritism (and the spectre of it) has been an issue in IRE games before, and making things more relaxed will at least spark the worry of that, if not actually cause it to happen again. 

    People not attending to a God role is just as bad as not having it filled, so not requiring a time commitment is a bad idea. 

    Most of the people who leave Godhood, I think, are not people that necessarily want to come back (certainly not right away). Returning to your mortals is fine, but it shouldn't be shortly after being a God- the waiting period is, I believe, a couple months? That doesn't seem unreasonable, given the amount of information Gods have access to. 
  • XadenXaden Member Posts: 2,315 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    The admin want all the god roles filled more than anyone who plays the game. I'm 100% in the 'get over it' camp.
         He is a coward who has to bring two friends as backup to jump people hunting.

  • KlendathuKlendathu Eye of the StormMember Posts: 3,178 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Personally speaking, I believe having more open and free requirements would lower the value of a divine. Functionally, you can, albeit with a little more difficulty, get your house/city requests filled. It's only really a hindrance for order related stuff.

    Tharos, the Announcer of Delos shouts, "It's near the end of the egghunt and I still haven't figured out how to pronounce Clean-dat-hoo."
  • DevranDevran Member Posts: 624 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    edited May 2017
    This is what that letter makes me think.

    Player: "This is not working. Handle it."

    System: "How would you like us to go about it?"

    Player: "I DONT CARE JUST FIX IT."
  • DraedethaDraedetha Member Posts: 38 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    I was sitting here thinking, trying to put myself in their shoes.
    I can't imagine how difficult it must be to get through all of the steps.
    All of the studying, all of the practicing, and all the behind-the-scenes things that none of us get to see that have to be done.

    What would entice you to dedicate a huge part of yourself, a huge part of your life to playing a God?
    These people are volunteers, right? There are other types of volunteer roles that are not God roles, right?

    What if we, as a community, set up some sort of Patreon type service to see a somewhat steady cash flow for these people who get in and stay in for a certain amount of time dictated by the Admins? The Admins could control this Patreon, that way a greedy person who flakes out won't just be sitting in on the donations.

    We're all very creative, and I'm sure we could make it work somehow. It could easily be done through various services like Twitch. One day a week the Gods could get together on a Skype call, stream it, and chat with us. That might put people on the spot, but it might also be really fun and lead to other interesting developments in the games that players are interested and talking about. 

    This was just a hopeful, well-intended thought. I am probably not seeing the whole picture, but I wanted to try and give a solution if I could.

  • AhmetAhmet Wherever I wanna beMember Posts: 3,370 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    The immense workload dropped on godroles would also (probably) be significantly less if people stuck it out long enough to populate the garden at least part of the way through.

    Though that's just speculation. Who knows? More gods could mean more bugs (cause more new stuff)! And more issues (cause more divine-inspired conflict)! And who wants all that stuff? (Hint: me)
    Huh. Neat.
  • CaelanCaelan Member Posts: 2,319 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited May 2017
    Xaden said:
    The admin want all the god roles filled more than anyone who plays the game. I'm 100% in the 'get over it' camp.
    Devran said:
    This is what that letter makes me think.

    Player: "This is not working. Handle it."

    System: "How would you like us to go about it?"

    Player: "I DONT CARE JUST FIX IT."
    @Xaden +1.  Why you would ever want a God who doesn't want to be here, is beyond me.  There is burnout.  Making them paid spots might help but would require those funds come from somewhere.  Like all businesses, they probably wouldn't be willing to take the hit, so it would be passed to the consumers.  

    @Devran  "Have you tried turning it off and then back on again?   Yes, OFF. Then back ON. "

    Possible solutions so as not to be part of the problem?  

    - Maybe make the Gods visible more?   When I was a newbie, I remember seeing 4 or 5 Gods visible VERY frequently.  Sure there's only 3 or 4 right now, but having them visible - even if you couldn't talk to them - would make it at least appear there are more.  It's a Band-Aid, but it also helps spur interest in the orders and whatnot. Once orders reach a certain level of involvement, they can be more self-sustaining, and current Gods can aid the smaller orders with requests.  They could make it so only the OHs could talk to them? Pushes more responsibility onto OHs to handle things and delegate as needed, which sucks for OH sometimes, but gives them more interaction with members, etc.

    - I understand the "once they've touched code, they can't be mortals".  But these are people you've placed your trust in to essentially control the outcome of the game.  I feel like if they are responsible enough to handle configuring events, repairing bugs, and making you more money, etc they should be allowed to be mortals again.  Clearly they are responsible enough.

    - If not mortals, let them play their avatars more?  Might quench the desire to PLAY as a mental break / drive conflict for their actual goals and give them the best of both worlds?

  • ExelethrilExelethril Member Posts: 3,360 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited May 2017
    The god roles are reliant on people being time benefactors. It's probably really difficult to find people willing to learn a coding language/sink in hours of time, with zero credit being granted since anonymity is a given must. 

    Solution would be paid compensation.

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  • ReysonReyson Member Posts: 652 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    The problem is that if someone fucks up with that system, it all goes to shit, cuz people won't trust the volunteers anymore. 
  • KryptonKrypton shi-KhurenaMember Posts: 2,377 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Ugh, more classic Mortal Entitlement.

    When are you going to realize, in the scope of the whole Multiverse, that you are fairly insignificant to the Supremely Powerful, and best get used to not being the center of Their attention??
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