Gods currently active

Jonathin

Kiet said:

No offense, but those '1 or 2' had an inordinate amount of influence in that rise.

It also doesn't really matter how you justify it. Hashan was growing in notability rapidly until Karren, Kasa, and you had RL take over. It's not a coincidence.

ftfy

Kiet

A common factor in cities that crash and burn is they failed to see who their key members were, yes.

I'm not denying you did lots of work for the city, but hashan's rise was predicated on more than just work--it was a strengthening of identity that then dissolved into nothing when the citizens said 'oh actually we hate Twilight now.'

Jonathin

See, that is where your misconception is. Nobody is saying 'oh actually we hate Twilight now'. It's literally just that the key players got pulled away from the game and nobody stepped up to fill the shoes.  99% of the Darkwalkers that were around during Hashan's rise are still around, doing mostly the same things they've always done.

You're not wrong in saying that Darkness helped Hashan be a better, stronger faction. I won't dispute that because it's absolutely true. Where you're wrong is in saying that Hashan's rise and fall was completely dependent on Darkwalkers, which is not true. Hashan is Twilight's and it isn't His at the same time.

Edit: really bad analogy. Maybe someone can come up with something better.

Kiet

Not literally, no, but plenty of Hashani (some even in this thread!) are now of the opinion Twilight needs to keep more hands off.

Accipiter

@Kiet I was just objecting to your theocracy or bust stuff, now you have moderated your rhetoric I think alot of people will agree that having a strong city identity that is based on something that will lead to conflict is a good thing. 

Mathilda

Theocracies aren't the sole solution. I've said this before. But in order to solidify some factional identity, legitimacy from the godmin is pretty much required, otherwise a section of the playerbase will fight tooth and nail to resist any sort of change. (And even then, sometimes, godmin legitimacy simply isn't enough).

There's a persistent effort by a collection of Hashani players to reject the shift into the Court of Shadows business. Reading some of the election-related news posts is enough of an evidence, on top of speaking with some older Hashan players. It will take initiative both from the players (who need to want the shift) and the godmin (both Ourania and Twilight together providing support).

@Ognog, you keep saying that a patrons should take a more background position in city matters. This works when the identity of the faction is already solid: Mhaldor got by without Sartan for RL years because Evil had strong foundations with things like the Seven Truths. Hashan does not enjoy the same luxury yet; Darkness still insists on being enigmatic instead of approachable, Moon is determined on being dead weight. (The players in the Orders, mostly.) Its patrons need to put their foot down while the Night/Shadows identity takes prominence over the dark-neutral old guard.

I mean, I dare you to say something favourable to Twilight in front of Redwan or Hellen. There is hostility against Twilight, and while that exists, Hashan will continue to merely limp along.

Nazihk

Regi said:

No disparaging to whoever was playing him, as I know it's a volunteer thing and that's all good, but his brief window of re-appearance last year really did not contribute nearly enough to the growth or resurgence of Twilight's order. That really sucks at a time where the admins have pushed so much toward Order-based combat interactions, I don't really like or understand some of these restrictions at all, between the splinter mechanics and new defiling rules, all of the sudden to fight against Divines/religions you must yourself be religious, not very cool, takes away the interesting RP option of being pro mortal freedom and fighting zealotry.

Speaking as an ex-Hashanite:

I seriously considered Twilight's Order when I was Hashanite. My first character in Achaea was a Twilighter and Hashanite back in the days of Firefox and Drakul and that crowd, and I've got a lot of nostalgia for them. There are two reasons I did not go for it or stick with Hashan.

The first is that talking to Kasa about joining the Order was basically "the first task to maybe join the pre-Order is to read a dozen books and then maybe you'll be able to understand the basics of the basics of the basics...", which makes it the scholar house of Orders. The second is that after all the work of joining it, I would be able to tell nobody I was in it. How much fun is the secret order of secrets really going to be? I don't want to join an Order and then have to hide my membership, and I don't want to deal with all this horrible kaballah/alchemy ripoff lore. 

I would be all about joining the Order of Darkness if it presented itself as an Order that actively wants to do things and make an impact. Less interested in joining a kaballah/alchemy study group.

Jonathin

Nazihk said:

The second is that after all the work of joining it, I would be able to tell nobody I was in it.

Wut. So Vayne, Tyamat, and all of the people who openly talk about being in Twilight's Order are breaking the rules?

Jacen

Jonathin said:

Nazihk said:

The second is that after all the work of joining it, I would be able to tell nobody I was in it.

Wut. So Vayne, Tyamat, and all of the people who openly talk about being in Twilight's Order are breaking the rules?

Leaders can reveal themselves. Its kind of necessary. Other members are not supposed to reveal themselves.

Farrah

Ozmatiah said:

Kiet said:

Hashan had a moment where it was rising to relevance, and that was entirely Twilight and the Darkwalkers. The rest of Hashan is currently in the process of blowing that while seemingly being unaware.

I feel like the underworld victory was our peak, and I don't attribute that to Twilight as it was before His return. When Kasa and Karren (only listing those two as they are not around as much as they were, there are more names clearly) are around and active it has a much larger impact. Imaging losing a Farrah, Proficy, or Jhui.  When you lose folks that really inspire everyone to be better and lead the charge it hurts the folks willing to follow, but not willing to lead.  Now it's just transition while others try and hopefully step up to fill that void, but it's Hashan, it's a challenge.

I think it's worth mention that those game-changing players have a tendency to join factional orgs because it's more fun. Jhui is in Babel's order. Proficy is in Sartan's. Kasa is in Twilight's. Farrah - Deucalion. 

I can't speak for Kasa specifically, but you can never take for granted a person like that's association with your city. If Twilight and Hashan had a complete falling out, would he stay with Hashan or with Twilight? If Twilight is active and being awesome and Hashan is backing up Darkness and fighting the whole world, will he find more time to play, or is he just so busy IG politics plays no role?

If Aurora and Deuc had a falling out (wouldn't happen obv, but if it did), Farrah would go with Deuc. That's where her loyalties lies, and it comes before city and everything else.

A city's choices with respect to religion can impact a lot more than the presence or absence of that god. It impacts what players join and stay and who stays active and who goes dormant. People get bored and leave or stop playing because of choices like that. The players may be responsible for a lot, but sometimes the gods are the reason those players are there to begin with.

Ozmatiah

Farrah said:

See above

I completely agree. It is the a reason folks like Kasa stay, and other individuals like Nazihk leave. I realize it is a very difficult balance to work and to pull off, especially with out alienating individuals. 

Mathilda

Checking back on this thread after a few months and I am having a bittersweet moment for what Hashan could have been. The most important takeaway, I believe, is this: it takes a small group of key people (players and admins both) to hold a faction together. Recognise, appreciate, and support these people lest you become just another background org in the game.

I miss you Twiguy!

Hataru

So idk why but I just read this whole thread and 'hmm'd a lot as someone who was a member of Hashan when it was basically a theocracy and then went to Mdor...