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Answers
Hashan is the Court of Shadows, and it takes Moonlight to cast shadows in the Darkness.
I don't know if this setback was the reason for Twilight's departure, but if it was then I'm very disappointed. Playing a God role isn't about winning and losing. The players behind the Gods aren't supposed to be competing with each other and their happiness shouldn't hinge on successfully building a Machiavellian empire. The art of the game master is to subtly guide the adventurers in the desired direction, and there are plenty of mechanisms to achieve this without needing direct command over a group of adventurers.
Why didn't Hashan work with its patron and His order, instead of the other way around? If you don't want change, and you're fine with the balance of affairs and the state of things (enough that you're not willing to make compromise, just flat out reject that patron's plans), I have no idea what you're looking for. Seems to me you should be fine with just an admin to add mobs/rooms/items, or whatever else people want.
Your attitude treats gods like you're paying them, like they're providing you a service you've earned. They're not. They're volunteers. Think of their fun, too, once in a while.
Twilight being active in Hashan's activities has generally done very good things for the city (more newbies, more players, more active on the world stage, etc.) but has always been, and likely always will be, short-lived. Its a fundamental flaw that was enacted so the city wouldn't wither away when Twilight was inactive.
Achaea would have lost two dimensions in this.
1. Politics would be completely lost from the game, with promotions going only to those that suck up to their faction's God most effectively.
2. Order and City would become indistinguishable.
Achaea's sophistocated political systems, along with separate Orders and City States have always been a selling point for Achaea. Why would we throw all that away to become a game of city vs city?
However, the problem of legitimacy still exists: people are very resistant getting off of their behinds unless a godmin pushes them into action. This is a problem that is, I feel, more prevalent in Achaea compared to the other IREs I've played (Imperian and Lusternia, particularly), possibly because there was a Golden Age wherein Achaea was blessed with a lot of active admin and players have come to expect that same level of pampering all the time.
So on one hand, we have a desire for a more player-driven, less admin-backed faction. On the other, we have players who will absolutely do something unless it's specifically admin-backed. Something has to give.
edit PS: Also, I don't think you have any idea just how much the last Twilight tried to be more interactive with Hashan, only to be met with a shrug of indifference and low-key disdain. I don't fault him/her at all for eventually quitting after being relegated to a glorified figurehead role.
If it weren't for CSR purposes, Ashtan and its Houses Pre- and Post-Renaissance wouldn't have bothered with updating Patrons. Our whole history of musical chairs isn't much based on factional/flavour relevance or historical accuracy after events both player devised or godmin aided. We aren't guided by Aegis now, in case some think we are. His call to arms went out like a whisper. Yet, we manage to have a population and continue on (with Houses without Patrons). Some of Ashtan will complain we could be more active in more cultural reformation, but it won't be through Aegis or the other active godmins.
In Achaea, the players are the content first and foremost. You have to offer ideas and events to your other players to keep people involved. That seems to be the reason why Mhaldor keeps a population at all through the Sartan-less years and why Cyrene is so huge. Players creating content for each other is what keeps this place afloat, and Order-run governments doesn't ensure that any more than secular leadership. Get your talents together and start something. So I don't understand the idiom's relevance when I'm not sure what you think your city lacks.
Mhaldor benefits from the fact that Evil is a well-defined identity. The Seven Truths, Sartan, Suffering, Oppression. Targossas is the same with the Bloodsworn. Even Cyrene pulls through: no combat, respect the rule of law (plus the fact that the noncom population is always going to be bigger than the other).
Hashan, though? Moon+Dark, but what are those, really? This is further made worse by the fact that there are still people who refuse to embrace the Court of Shadows moniker and insist on using the Crown of the Ithmia. (Hashan news 9475 in particular is a good eye-opener to just how disliked Twilight is by Ouranians, to the point that they reject the Shadows thing altogether).
Developing the identity of Hashan is what I mean when I said things require admin-backing, because clearly a section of the players is adamantly against the idea. At this point, no amount of player-driven talent-pooling is enough to push Hashan onto embracing the Shadows/Night identity, not without admin-backing. And, well...Hashan doesn't really have a great history with its treatment of volunteer godmins.
Personally, I'm of the mind that we should embrace a Divine directive, but we should be able to help define what that directive is. I believe there can be a happy medium between a city serving a Patron and a Patron serving a city. Especially with Twilight's whole "do whatever, since everything is a part of the Great Work" thing, I think there is definitely a way to move forward with people keeping their own beliefs and motivations and still working with the Patron. The problem is that there is still that group that is actively, vocally pushing back against the merger. How do we fix that?
Either the Order of Darkness begins a campaign to educate/convince the citizens that Darkness and Twilight are not only good for, but necessary for, Hashan, or there is a significant conflict between the groups that leads Hashan to split into two warring factions; from the latter, the outcomes are either one group leaves, one group eliminates the other, or Hashan literally splits in two. And since I don't think the Garden is going to just make a new city that's Hashan-lite, there is going to be a conflict, either in ideologies or, heavens forbid, in violence.
Man Twilight used to be so badass. No idea why you would be against having Him around if you were Hashan.
Absolutely. I'm not saying that everything that goes on in a city should be totally player created. What I am saying is that a lot of events that happen within cities are player ideas taken to the Admins via email and messages by organisations within the city councils and Houses. Those ideas are discussed and then either planned out or cast aside as something that doesn't fit the narrative or ability to do. I'm not sure how much Hashan has discussed OOCly among each other to do RP-oriented events with the Admin in the time after I was Hashani, but we in Ashtan discuss and brainstorm more than most of our citizens might think. Plus, these ideas aren't always channeled completely through our Patron or have anything to do with our Patron, like our the Fire and Ice ball. (Though our patron was kind enough to create decorations, denizens, food and drinks, and hire that crazy band for us.)
What I'm saying is, if you have ideas for defining the culture of your city, get with your leadership and start working towards it so that ideas can be forwarded to the Admin to discuss in more depth. There are more than two opinions about Twilight in Hashan, and though "Hashan has always been Twilight's" doesn't mean the playerbase is shackled to that forever. Especially not if it hasn't worked out culturally or gained public majority support. I get why some Ouranians don't like Darkwalkers (not metagamer enough to make a Hashani alt to read the news but I've heard there were strong opinions voiced). That leads back the Vayne cross-over Order days. Sure, the orders could hash out what was manufactured animosity, but not sure they will. Things changed and every city is allowed to evolved if the playerbase pushes for it, that's what we pay to be apart of: a living world in real time.
No disparaging to whoever was playing him, as I know it's a volunteer thing and that's all good, but his brief window of re-appearance last year really did not contribute nearly enough to the growth or resurgence of Twilight's order. That really sucks at a time where the admins have pushed so much toward Order-based combat interactions, I don't really like or understand some of these restrictions at all, between the splinter mechanics and new defiling rules, all of the sudden to fight against Divines/religions you must yourself be religious, not very cool, takes away the interesting RP option of being pro mortal freedom and fighting zealotry.
Pretty ridiculous that people are asserting that "patron control of your city" is the only way to really have conflict, given all that's gone on in this game's history. I guess people prefer to have closed minds and have their RP laid out for them. That said, I personally would love to have a Twilight player around and active more, doing and setting into motion whatever it is he or she thinks the god would do, even (or especially) if that would work counter to Regi's vision for the city and populace. I would have loved being absolutely smote to fuck by Twilight during all that coup-attempt stuff awhile back there, that kind of stuff is great fun, but Twilight was already dormant for awhile by then unfortunately.
Also I have no idea where the idea that our godmins are treated badly has come from, I've never seen a shred of it while I've been actively playing. If not kneeling, capitulating and grovelling IC = poor treatment, well, that's a pretty sad reflection on what people desire from their godmin interactions. If I were to play a God, I'd have just as much fun with players who cast defiance into my teeth as those who worship fully (if the defiance wasn't cringe-worthy shouting from a boat I mean, I'd want actual good RP stuff). If there's OOC anti-Twilight player stuff going on I have never condoned it or heard of it, and shame on whoever's doing that.
Anyway, by no means is my character going to let what he perceives as negative shit happen to the city for the sake of game mechanics. People have to be swayed, brought to heel, or beaten for changes like that to occur, it won't just happen. The great thing about Achaea is you don't have to just fall in line, everyone's options are nearly limitless and the game is dynamic. I love the change Hashan's seen in the past year and a half, it's completely different and way fucking cooler for it. And all with -barely- a trace of active patron influence (again no disrespect to Twilight player).
One day I spent 7+ hours locked in Rory's throne room dealing with some silly drama things I was involved with and helping her get through a bunch more drama people kept bringing to her. This was one day. I can't imagine the amount of bs they have to wade through on a daily basis.
But saying all that, I don't think a patron should have total control of a city. I just think that a city's identity should generally follow the same ideals of potential patrons, such that any anti-(potential patron) platforms are inherently anti-city. I.e. you can't stand against Twilight or Ourania without standing against Hashan.
The strawman that 'omg if gods controlled the cities all the neutral gods would disappear!' keeps being brought up, too, but that's all it is: a strawman. Twilight can guide Hashan while still allowing people to be in the neutral god orders. It's just that it's not going to be Phaestians running the city.
Sartan is in complete control of Mhaldor, but has in the past allowed Keresis, Indrani, and neutral ordermembers.
Look, a God can establish the ethos of a city and establish a lot of ethos related conflict without needing to directly control the city government. It can be done in a myriad of ways, but here's just one example -
Suppose Twilight wants to establish some conflict between Hashan and Targossas. Twilight co-ordinates with others in the Garden to convince the Targossans that Hashan possesses a relic that threatens the very fabric of creation, and that Relic must be retrieved. Targossas raids Hashan maybe multiple times trying to obtain the relic before finally succeeding. Twilight then uses denizens etc to convince Hashan that the city is in dire peril because the dogmatic Targossans have stolen a relic that is essential for the stability of the wellspring of power below the city. Hashan then raids Targossas multiple times before recovering the relic and using it to stabilise the wellspring.
As a Patron you don't need to be in a position to command a city to do something. All you need to do is manipulate the government into believing doing something is in the vital interests of the city. The ability to create the fabric of reality - to create evidence supporting the course of action you desire - is very powerful.
Your example also shows a lack of distinction between IC and OOC motivations. We're talking about IC motivations.
Really ?
Sorry, you've lost me here. Cooperation within the Garden to organise events is necessarily OOC. How the Gods and denizens conduct themselves to make it happen is entirely IC.
You believe we are saying 'twlilight oocly just wants more events.' We're saying 'ICly, you should be at least begrudgingly cooperative with Twilight because otherwise it makes your city a hot mess.' Of course, this in itself is an OOC consideration to a point, but ICly people shouldn't realistically be going 'lol nah' at the literal god that is the reason for their city's continued existence.
Ultimately, you'll never be convinced, so it's a pointless argument. Hashan had a moment where it was rising to relevance, and that was entirely Twilight and the Darkwalkers. The rest of Hashan is currently in the process of blowing that while seemingly being unaware.
The definition of "active" when it comes to Divines is pretty up for grabs. Some people consider a Divine active if they answer messages once in a blue moon or appear for five minutes every six months.
If "active" means being a visible presence in the world semi-regularly, and actually being a force for player roleplaying and direction, than Achaea is really suffering from a lack of Gods in my opinion. Lord Aegis, Lord Sartan and Lord Deucalion are the only ones who to my eye seem to be around and interacting on a regular basis. We have seen other Gods "return" and have a brief spat of activity/visibility, but then quickly fade away again.
Some groups, be they Cities, Houses or High Clans, need an active Patron to push them more than others. Or at least... police them a little bit to keep them on track. I've been playing Achaea for several years now, and this is to my mind the single area where the game could stand to improve the most.
I like how non-Hashani are talking about Hashan like they know wtf is going on in the city. I also like how people that were not directly involved with the goings on of the recent upheaval are commenting.
Let me clear up a few things considering that I was one of the central players in the whole f'n mess.
Long story short, stop posting about Hashani politics if you are not well-entrenched in the politics of the city.
It also doesn't really matter how you justify it. Hashan was growing in notability rapidly until Twilight/the Darkwalkers burned out or had RL take over or whatever else. It's not a coincidence.